Give me a good reason THJ shouldn't be considered to start

[JTB]

In my own humble opinion THJ has the most all around offense on our perimeter at the wing positions. He can put the ball on the ground, shot 3s, Shoot off the screens, penetrate the lane well enough ...he's still working on defense but he has improved greatly compared to what he was.

im suggesting this because it's believed by many around here that our biggest issue on offense is that we don't have another player along the perimeter who can actually put the ball on the floor outside of the point guards. Well THJ can put the ball on the ground and he can light it up if he gets hot as well.

 

You may not be in love with his defense but sometimes you have to give something up to be a bit more balanced cause our offense is certainly struggling. 

 

Pg- Dennis

Sg- THJ

Sf- Baze

Pf-Sap

C-Howard

honestly I prefer this lineup below but no way baze doesn't get starter minutes somehow I mean he is our best defender after thabo until prince proves more on the floor to bud but anyways I wouldn't mind seeing:

Pg- Dennis

Sg- THJ/Baze (split most minutes)

Sf- Prince (Thabo gets most backup SF minutes with korver being a situational minute player for needed 3pt shooting)

Pf-Sap

C-Howard

Edited November 29, 2016 by JTB

[Gray Mule]

Because our bull headed coach refuses to make any changes

in the starting lineup.  When anyone makes his lineup, it is

considered a lifetime award !

Next question - - - -

[Lurker]

I said it in a game thread, it's time to discontinue the idea that Korver NEEDS to be counted on.

No it doesn't mean Korver shouldn't play, but he shouldn't be playing the most minutes of the wings. If it were up to me, he'd be averaging 20-22 minutes a game and seeing 10 mins of the backup SF.

Not hard and fast, but this is one idea that could happen:

SG: Hardaway Jr 20 MPG/Bazemore 18 MPG/Korver 10 MPG
SF: Sefolosha 20 MPG/Bazemore 10 MPG/Prince 18 MPG (and spot minutes at PF)

This is too creative though for Bud. It's either or with Hardaway Jr or Prince and Korver get the most minutes every single game on the wing.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Lurker

[AHF]

Even I'm open to trying this.  I'd like to see Thabo tried first but if Bud wants to try Timmy go for it.  

My prior reservations have dealt with the fact that Hardaway is having a great season in the paint (72.1% on career high number of shots near the rim) but has struggled on long jumpers (I'd disagree that 32.5% from 3pt range shows he can shoot 3's).  But he has had a much better start to this season and we need a change with our wings.  His ballhandling is definitely better than either Korver or Baze so let's give something a shot.

[JTB]

Again THJ need to start he solves issues offensively...at the least he's a bandaid to heal some wombs offensively at the very least cause korver ain't giving us shit

Edited December 1, 2016 by JTB

[django2341]

He can give us spacing as well. Plus he can put the ball on the floor and has some serious athletisism. Way better all alround than Korver.

[hawkman]

Make the change Bud. It's time.

[JTB]

So bud pretty much lets us know that he knows what THJ brings and what Korver lacks according to the latest ajc article....

3. Budenholzer went with Hardaway down the stretch over Kyle Korver. Hardaway played 26 minutes, including 9:58 of the fourth quarter. He finished with 21 points on 9 of 17 shooting, which included two highlight worthy dunks.

“He was playing well, offensively, defensively,” Budenholzer said. “He gives us another ball handler. A guy who is attacking the basket a little bit. I thought it was one of his better overall games, including defensively. I thought he competed there.”

Korver played just 16 minutes, including 6:28 of the second half and none of the fourth quarter.

 

 

Bud if you know this then what the hell is thd hold up?!!!!

[Guest]

On 11/29/2016 at 11:43 AM, AHF said:

Even I'm open to trying this.  I'd like to see Thabo tried first but if Bud wants to try Timmy go for it.  

Blah, blah, bleh .... nimbers

So did it sting a little to finally realize/admit you were wrong?  Nevermind, you don't have to say it out loud.

Anyways, as the newly-minted Lurkg01, I must see Kial come off the bench.  THJr for President.

[hawkman]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

So bud pretty much lets us know that he knows what THJ brings and what Korver lacks according to the latest ajc article....

3. Budenholzer went with Hardaway down the stretch over Kyle Korver. Hardaway played 26 minutes, including 9:58 of the fourth quarter. He finished with 21 points on 9 of 17 shooting, which included two highlight worthy dunks.

“He was playing well, offensively, defensively,” Budenholzer said. “He gives us another ball handler. A guy who is attacking the basket a little bit. I thought it was one of his better overall games, including defensively. I thought he competed there.”

Korver played just 16 minutes, including 6:28 of the second half and none of the fourth quarter.

 

 

Bud if you know this then what the hell is thd hold up?!!!!

Good question. But I can't fault Bud for giving the guy that was a tremendous asset during the 60 win season the opportunity to prove that he can be that same player after recovering from a terrible injury. But it's pretty obvious now that Korver is not the same guy, so Bud needs to make the right decision. Korver can still  be valuable as a specialist off the bench. THJr provides the energy, scoring, athleticism, and ball handling this team sorely needs. He's earned the starting role fair and square. And that's coming from someone who hated the THJr trade on Draft night.

[capstone21]

I think we need some consistent scoring off the bench ... 

[macdaddy]

I'm down with Tim starting but if he's already playing most of the 2nd half minutes over Korver and we still aren't winning then just starting him isn't going to mean everything's fixed.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

I think we need some consistent scoring off the bench ... 

Honestly, this is the one legit reason he may not be able to start him.  We need scoring off the bench and I'm not convinced Kial could give us that even against other teams' bench-level players.  At least we know THJr can.

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

I'm down with Tim starting but if he's already playing most of the 2nd half minutes over Korver and we still aren't winning then just starting him isn't going to mean everything's fixed.

I think the issue may not be total minutes necessarily.  It's those key down-the-stretch minutes when Budz forces the ball to Kiel, the play breaks down and we end up just hot-potato'ing it around until the shot clock expires.  Let's avoid that by having Kiel sitting when that play is called.

[JTB]

Here's to hoping bud sees that THJ need to start after the offense running a lot smother against the Bucks. Better player and ball movement in the starting lineup with THJ , along with the simple fact that he can put the ball on the floor and score or try to make a play.

Once chemistry is built between -> Dennis, THJ, Thabo or Baze, Sap, Howard offensively...I truly believe the defense will get back on track and play lights out like the beginning of the season. The bench with korver, muscala, & Scott should be able to provide good shooting. And once we can add Tiago back to the bench that should also help with rebounding on the bench between him and Humphries.

 

THJ starting is the internal fix that can swing a lot of things back around and get momentum back on our side. I see this as a no brainer if bud and staff arent hard pressed about making a trade.

[Trout7]

As long as Bazemore is a starter, this team will always be limited no matter what else you do.

[JTB]

2 hours ago, Trout7 said:

As long as Bazemore is a starter, this team will always be limited no matter what else you do.

That just depends on matchups defensively to me if bazemore is looking bad....after all he's playing out of position 90 percent of the time. However on offense Baze shouldn't have had his offensive role increased coming into this season. Bud and staff need to get him back to doing what he has done since coming to Atlanta offensively which never included putting the ball on the floor too often. 

Baze is killing the Hawks due to horrible dribbling if he goes back to spotting up and cutting to the basket off ball he'd be fine.

[AHF]

On 12/1/2016 at 7:58 AM, kg01 said:

So did it sting a little to finally realize/admit you were wrong?  Nevermind, you don't have to say it out loud.

Anyways, as the newly-minted Lurkg01, I must see Kial come off the bench.  THJr for President.

Definitely will never change my mind that we overpaid for him.  Knicks expected a good second rounder and extracted much higher value.

We'll see where we are at the end of the season for the trade.  Does he keep up his career high scoring efficiency?  Can we afford to keep him if he is consistently productive this year after signing Baze and using two firsts on wings?  Time will tell.  This season is the bird in hand since last year was basically worthless and then he is a RFA.

[macdaddy]

I didn't even think Tim had that good a game against the Bucks but i tell you it was nice to see a Hawk hit a clutch shot with a hand in his face for once.     I can live with some bad shots if he can do that. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Definitely will never change my mind that we overpaid for him.  Knicks expected a good second rounder and extracted much higher value.

We'll see where we are at the end of the season for the trade.  Does he keep up his career high scoring efficiency?  Can we afford to keep him if he is consistently productive this year after signing Baze and using two firsts on wings?  Time will tell.  This season is the bird in hand since last year was basically worthless and then he is a RFA.

Yes but will they want to.  

Our two rookie wings are on rookie deals they become eligible for extensions when Bazemore is in year 3 of his 4 year deal (PO in year 4). Thabo and Korver are aging.

We can always trade Baze later.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Yes but will they want to.  

Our two rookie wings are on rookie deals they become eligible for extensions when Bazemore is in year 3 of his 4 year deal (PO in year 4). Thabo and Korver are aging.

We can always trade Baze later.

I didn't literally mean whether they could sign him, I know they could sign him to a max deal if they really want.  It is a question of whether the market will price him out of what they are willing to invest given what we invested in Baze and the rookies this year and our needs for the total roster.