Premium Member BrazilianHawk Posted March 27, 2017 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 My very first move would be getting rid of Bud the drunkard, but I actually like some of Supes' ideas. 1. Resign Sap and Tim. Try to sign Ersan to a cheaper but long contract. Agree in full. 2. Trade Bazemore for a backup PG. Someone like Brandon Knight or Rubio. As @ISOJOE stated, he has no real trade value. a future 2nd would do it if you ask me. If we can get Brandon Kight or even Monta, all the better. 3. Offer the same package to Chicago for Butler and offer a slightly lesser package to Indy for PG. Since you mentioned Rubio, I don't think he's a backup PG. I'd try to trade for Butler or PG, and include Dennis in the package. If it doesn't work (I doubt it would), then I'd be all for trading Dennis for Rubio, as I'm SURE Rubio-Howard would work way better that what we got now. 4. Move from Hump, resign Moose and Kelly. IMHO hump is much better than the other two, so keep him and get rid of the others. 5. Sign a backup SF. No-brainer. 6. Resign Edy to the team. I agree. I haven't really thought about it, but he can't be worse than Moose or Kelly as a bench-warmer. 7. Keep one of Bembry or Prince if you trade for PG or Butler. I agree. I don't think we will trade for one of those guys, but if we do, them we need to keep one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostdreamgal Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 On 2/24/2017 at 7:10 PM, NBASupes said: We all know it's gonna be crazy. Here's what I hope: 1. Resign Sap and Tim. Try to sign Ersan to a cheaper but long contract. 2. Trade Bazemore for a backup PG. Someone like Brandon Knight or Rubio. 3. Offer the same package to Chicago for Butler and offer a slightly lesser package to Indy for PG. 4. Move from Hump, resign Moose and Kelly. 5. Sign a backup SF. 6. Resign Edy to the team. 7. Keep one of Bembry or Prince if you trade for PG or Butler. I like your line of thinking. My ideas are kinda weird, but here goes. 1.A .Get a shooting guard or a bigger shooting guard who can play point to run the offense, a little more fluidly. 1.B. If you cannot get 1.A. accomplish by draft, trade, or FA signing, then I would like at bringing any veteran point guard that can share time and the floor with Dennis. 2. Find way to trade Bazemore...you can tell management was hell-bent on keeping him. I don't think should've paid him as much considering their needs in the backcourt. 3. I would try to keep all of the bargained young players for the time being. 4. Milsap -- I would walk a fine line with, I'd over pay to keep a few more year, but the amount of pay for the years and amount I'd have to strongly consider.I believe Milsap is "true" glue guy at this stage in his career. Though, I thought the team made the right decision 5. If you don't accomplish any or only one of the above, put everything you have into getting a go-to scorer, like Butler, George, or Hayward. I feel like the Hawks for over a decade now, have been a ready made playoff team and only suffering from the NBA reality of "not having a Superstar," much less a questionable superstar. What I love about Coach Bud is that he does maximize the talent of the roster for the most part. I feel like if he had bits and pieces of the Woody/Larry Drew teams and the current roster. The roster would be near optimal. Having decent go-to scorer, like JJ and an athletic ball hawk in Josh Smith being supported by talents in Milsap, Prince,Bazemore, and Dennis. Pick Dwight or Horford (not both unless we let go of Milsap). Maybe, players like Teague and Korver still on the roster. This team would at least, make the Cavs sweat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Given 1: Salary in the NBA is structured to favor younger rosters. Max contracts at year 5 are much lower than max contracts for year 11. Given 2: The Hawks have significant future assets in 2nd round picks and 2 extra late first rounders. Given 3: The Hawks may not make the playoffs and will either A) be in the lottery or B) pick between 14-18. Assuming Millsap options out, this is what you currently have. Howard - $23.5 Bazemore - $16.9 Schröder - $15.5 Delaney - $2.5 Prince - $2.4 Bembry - 1.567 Total - $62.4 million (approximately) Options Millsap - $21.47 (opting out) Dunleavy - $5.175 (we will pick this up) Hardaway - $3.335 (Qualifying offer - he will get offers to match, we should match up to $18 million as THjr > Baze. My guess THjr will get a 4 year deal starting at $14 mil and going up to $17+ million) So what do I see? Bazemore is severely overpaid. Job 1: Trade Bazemore to one of Phoenix, Philly, LAL, Denver, etc for a high 2nd round pick and filler. What else do I see? Millsap is getting old. I love Sap and if this streak has taught us anything, it is that his production is missed. But it is replaceable with salary and signing Sap will require a 4 year deal and those knees will be shot year 4. Job 2: Let Sap walk for anything over $25 million year 4. Use our assets and or Baze to move into the lottery or up and select the best PF available. Target Lauri Markkanen - Arizona http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/2354775/lauri-markkanen At this point the roster is : (+ Baze salary filler). Schröder/Delaney THjr/Bembry Prince/Dunleavy Markkanen Howard The salary is around $73 million + Baze trade salary filler. You have 1-2 second round picks. Assuming those 2 2nd rounders make the roster and the Baze trade player/players =$10 million...you are at $85mil and have 11 or more roster spots full. Target 2 vets for the SF/PF spots At $10 million each and then vet min the rest of the roster. Let the core of Schröder, Timmy, Prince, Markkanen and Bembry develop next year. You are playing for 2019. You cannot go into this expecting to win it all next year. You don't have to tank because you have good young players. You just need a youth reset. Then when Dwight comes off the books in 2 years, use his salary to upgrade the roster. Edited March 28, 2017 by thecampster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, thecampster said: Dunleavy - $5.175 (we will pick this up) Hmmm... I like the overall outlook. I do think we are making the playoffs but hoping it's 7th or 8th seed just to be able to pick higher in the draft. I would love to move up in this draft for sure though it's a great one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 4 hours ago, thecampster said: Given 1: Salary in the NBA is structured to favor younger rosters. Max contracts at year 5 are much lower than max contracts for year 11. Given 2: The Hawks have significant future assets in 2nd round picks and 2 extra late first rounders. Given 3: The Hawks may not make the playoffs and will either A) be in the lottery or B) pick between 14-18. Assuming Millsap options out, this is what you currently have. Howard - $23.5 Bazemore - $16.9 Schröder - $15.5 Delaney - $2.5 Prince - $2.4 Bembry - 1.567 Total - $62.4 million (approximately) Options Millsap - $21.47 (opting out) Dunleavy - $5.175 (we will pick this up) Hardaway - $3.335 (Qualifying offer - he will get offers to match, we should match up to $18 million as THjr > Baze. My guess THjr will get a 4 year deal starting at $14 mil and going up to $17+ million) So what do I see? Bazemore is severely overpaid. Job 1: Trade Bazemore to one of Phoenix, Philly, LAL, Denver, etc for a high 2nd round pick and filler. What else do I see? Millsap is getting old. I love Sap and if this streak has taught us anything, it is that his production is missed. But it is replaceable with salary and signing Sap will require a 4 year deal and those knees will be shot year 4. Job 2: Let Sap walk for anything over $25 million year 4. Use our assets and or Baze to move into the lottery or up and select the best PF available. Target Lauri Markkanen - Arizona http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/2354775/lauri-markkanen At this point the roster is : (+ Baze salary filler). Schröder/Delaney THjr/Bembry Prince/Dunleavy Markkanen Howard The salary is around $73 million + Baze trade salary filler. You have 1-2 second round picks. Assuming those 2 2nd rounders make the roster and the Baze trade player/players =$10 million...you are at $85mil and have 11 or more roster spots full. Target 2 vets for the SF/PF spots At $10 million each and then vet min the rest of the roster. Let the core of Schröder, Timmy, Prince, Markkanen and Bembry develop next year. You are playing for 2019. You cannot go into this expecting to win it all next year. You don't have to tank because you have good young players. You just need a youth reset. Then when Dwight comes off the books in 2 years, use his salary to upgrade the roster. Best post in this thread. Let's let our young guys play! We have young talent on this team already and need to develop them. Saps/Baze contract off the books can get us a complete new and better bench for the upcoming season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 1 hour ago, JTB said: Best post in this thread. Let's let our young guys play! We have young talent on this team already and need to develop them. Saps/Baze contract off the books can get us a complete new and better bench for the upcoming season But we can't just trade Baze for a 2nd rounder? No team is going to drop down in the lottery for the privilege of paying Bazemore's contract. Think about it, if we don't want him and we're the one's that developed him, what makes people think teams will pay us for him? We'll have to pay teams to take him, not the other way around. Back to the drawing board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Think we'll bring back PG-Dennis, Malcolm, Bembry SG-Tim, Baze, Bembry SF-Prince, Baze, Dunleavy PF-Ersan C-Dwight all for better or much worse. Most of this of course is just a Bud thing. Dunleavy's contract is partially guaranteed anyway so might as well have his three pointer and passing as limited second or third string off the bench. The draft brings in two bigs at least and FAs the rest. Not sure who or what we will afford to bring in but its going to be both very hard and very risky to bring Sap back now. Been thinking about those knees. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 7 hours ago, thecampster said: Given 1: Salary in the NBA is structured to favor younger rosters. Max contracts at year 5 are much lower than max contracts for year 11. Given 2: The Hawks have significant future assets in 2nd round picks and 2 extra late first rounders. Given 3: The Hawks may not make the playoffs and will either A) be in the lottery or B) pick between 14-18. Assuming Millsap options out, this is what you currently have. Howard - $23.5 Bazemore - $16.9 Schröder - $15.5 Delaney - $2.5 Prince - $2.4 Bembry - 1.567 Total - $62.4 million (approximately) Options Millsap - $21.47 (opting out) Dunleavy - $5.175 (we will pick this up) Hardaway - $3.335 (Qualifying offer - he will get offers to match, we should match up to $18 million as THjr > Baze. My guess THjr will get a 4 year deal starting at $14 mil and going up to $17+ million) So what do I see? Bazemore is severely overpaid. Job 1: Trade Bazemore to one of Phoenix, Philly, LAL, Denver, etc for a high 2nd round pick and filler. What else do I see? Millsap is getting old. I love Sap and if this streak has taught us anything, it is that his production is missed. But it is replaceable with salary and signing Sap will require a 4 year deal and those knees will be shot year 4. Job 2: Let Sap walk for anything over $25 million year 4. Use our assets and or Baze to move into the lottery or up and select the best PF available. Target Lauri Markkanen - Arizona http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/2354775/lauri-markkanen At this point the roster is : (+ Baze salary filler). Schröder/Delaney THjr/Bembry Prince/Dunleavy Markkanen Howard The salary is around $73 million + Baze trade salary filler. You have 1-2 second round picks. Assuming those 2 2nd rounders make the roster and the Baze trade player/players =$10 million...you are at $85mil and have 11 or more roster spots full. Target 2 vets for the SF/PF spots At $10 million each and then vet min the rest of the roster. Let the core of Schröder, Timmy, Prince, Markkanen and Bembry develop next year. You are playing for 2019. You cannot go into this expecting to win it all next year. You don't have to tank because you have good young players. You just need a youth reset. Then when Dwight comes off the books in 2 years, use his salary to upgrade the roster. I think I agree with your 'givens', however, this is incomplete. You can't just say 'well, we'll just trade Bazemore to move up in the draft' or stte. That's akin to BOS fans saying 'we'll just trade Marcus Smart for Paul George'. Yeah that works for you but why would the Pacers take that deal. IOW, nobody's trading for Bazemore. Why would PHI trade for him when they'll likely have 2 1sts with one of which they'll be drafting a 2 to build with. Why would PHX, who's desperately trying to sell Booker as their 2 of the future, trade for Bazemore? Especially when they have a better guard in Bledsoe on the trading block. I'm not tearing down your whole scenario, just that one aspect of it. Trading Baze will be a salary dump type of deal. To me, trading him to BKN would make the most sense because they're desperate for players almost regardless of salary. Problem is, they don't have anything we'd want. IOW, we're not getting value in return for Baze. I'd still do the deal just to get out from under his money so we can keep THJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted March 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 I don't think Baze is a waste and he's a good teammate and he can be a tank commander. I have no quarrels with him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankingitbig Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 I don't see how the Hawks make a significant move up in the draft unless we are willing to trade Prince or Schröder, which I don't see happening. We just don't have valuable assets. We could make a small jump by giving up the #31 BKN pick or a future first, but nothing to get us into the top 10 to be able to draft a guy like Markkanen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 29 minutes ago, NBASupes said: I don't think Baze is a waste and he's a good teammate and he can be a tank commander. I have no quarrels with him You're answering questions that no one asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted March 28, 2017 Moderators Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 We should be realistic and say that no way does Baze get traded unless somehow it's for salary in a larger deal. But that I doubt. Bud isn't going to give up on Baze and he thinks of him as one of his high character guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hylndr11 Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 How and what could we possibly offer for PG or Butler, something would have to happen to those teams to feel like they cant build around those guys, and it wouldnt work without Millsap anyway, we would have to keep him for it to be worth what we would have to give up for it. The only thing we can hope for is maybe his knees end up really affecting his value for example if he really struggles rest of the year or doesnt come back at all, it will at least give a us little more leverage, although someone may still offer max, if we can get a PG or JB he might sign here for a little less, that is absolute best case mind you, in my opinion, nice thread with ppl sharing ideas though ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 18 minutes ago, macdaddy said: We should be realistic and say that no way does Baze get traded unless somehow it's for salary in a larger deal. But that I doubt. Bud isn't going to give up on Baze and he thinks of him as one of his high character guys. I read somewhere during the trade deadline that the Hawks organization was going to keep/hold onto bazemore and wouldn't involve him in any trades but trading him isn't as hard as some may believe. Now if we have to keep Baze it's best to suck it up and make him the 70 millionaire come off the bench for energy and defense. We do this for the sake of developing the team with young players whose actually showing huge potential. If we have to keep Baze than so be it ya know....but I still believe the Warriors would take bazemore back seeing that iggy isn't going to be playing too much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, hylndr11 said: How and what could we possibly offer for PG or Butler, something would have to happen to those teams to feel like they cant build around those guys, and it wouldnt work without Millsap anyway, we would have to keep him for it to be worth what we would have to give up for it. The only thing we can hope for is maybe his knees end up really affecting his value for example if he really struggles rest of the year or doesnt come back at all, it will at least give a us little more leverage, although someone may still offer max, if we can get a PG or JB he might sign here for a little less, that is absolute best case mind you, in my opinion, nice thread with ppl sharing ideas though ! It's not going to happen man. Hawks will put up effort to bring in one of these two but it's a 99% chance it's not going to happen and this is not me being negative it's just how top NBA players do the Hawks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hylndr11 Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Well only thing I can hope is one of these rookies or bench players takes off while we have starters down, and helps us out, Hardaway and Prince and those picks might do it, if a team is wanting to start over, but yes I agree, just hoping some guys show out and make our players at least more attractive than at the past deadline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted March 28, 2017 Moderators Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 1 hour ago, macdaddy said: We should be realistic and say that no way does Baze get traded unless somehow it's for salary in a larger deal. But that I doubt. Bud isn't going to give up on Baze and he thinks of him as one of his high character guys. My move #1 for the team this offseason would be hiring a real GM. We need someone who is focused on the longterm vision for the team and not a coach looking to patch up his lineup for next season. A real GM would recognize that Baze is significantly overpaid and decide whether they want him around to fill salary and lose games on a tanking team or whether it is worthwhile to pay someone to take him (ala Baze and a second for a heavily protected second). 38 minutes ago, JTB said: I read somewhere during the trade deadline that the Hawks organization was going to keep/hold onto bazemore and wouldn't involve him in any trades but trading him isn't as hard as some may believe. Now if we have to keep Baze it's best to suck it up and make him the 70 millionaire come off the bench for energy and defense. We do this for the sake of developing the team with young players whose actually showing huge potential. If we have to keep Baze than so be it ya know....but I still believe the Warriors would take bazemore back seeing that iggy isn't going to be playing too much longer. I am a believer that he is a toxic asset and we'd need some serious desperation not to have to pay someone to take him. He isn't very good and occupies a large % of your cap space. I would target New Orleans who should be desperate for upgrades at the wings given their dumpster fire there. I'd happily take their second round pick this year for him and then reinvest that money in Tim. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, AHF said: My move #1 for the team this offseason would be hiring a real GM. We need someone who is focused on the longterm vision for the team and not a coach looking to patch up his lineup for next season. A real GM would recognize that Baze is significantly overpaid and decide whether they want him around to fill salary and lose games on a tanking team or whether it is worthwhile to pay someone to take him (ala Baze and a second for a heavily protected second). I am a believer that he is a toxic asset and we'd need some serious desperation not to have to pay someone to take him. He isn't very good and occupies a large % of your cap space. I would target New Orleans who should be desperate for upgrades at the wings given their dumpster fire there. I'd happily take their second round pick this year for him and then reinvest that money in Tim. Agree with both your posts. Wilcox is not the answer at GM. He's clearly beholden to Budz and has no gravitas to dictate any policy. I'm not saying the GM should trump the President ( c'mon you gotta give me that one ), I'm saying he should carry enough weight to get Budz attention. Wilcox doesn't have that. I also like the NOP choice for a potential Baze trade. Gotta find desperate and/or ill-managed teams. NOP checks both those boxes. Who's the special advisor to their soon-to-be-ousted GM? Hmmmm Lastly, I'm taking it easy on you since your 'Cats got put out. I'm saving you a warm seat on the GT NIT bandwagon, brutha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted March 28, 2017 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 1. Draft John Collins 2. Sign Shelvin Mack or Patty Mills 3. Resign TJHJr.,.. make it his team. Resign Sap if Reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 21 minutes ago, Diesel said: 1. Draft John Collins 2. Sign Shelvin Mack or Patty Mills 3. Resign TJHJr.,.. make it his team. Resign Sap if Reasonable. 'Make it his Team?' - there is no one currently who deserves that moniker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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