The Problem is Dennis.

[Lurker]

Some won't be happy until Howard is averaging the most post touches in the NBA, no matter if its a good season or not. 28% is enough for there to be a sample size, and we have the answer and its something that is not good for the team.

It's stagnant offense if Howard touches the ball because he isn't good at passing.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Lurker

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

The numbers don't lie:

http://stats.nba.com/players/post-up/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular Season&sort=Time&dir=1

28% frequency isn't enough?

I noticed on your little chart there that Al Horford was 28.2%.  I also noticed that Karl Anthony Townes was 25%.  I also noticed that Anthony Davis was 15%.  

NUMBERS DON'T LIE...  SPIN THAT.

 

[Lurker]

Just now, Diesel said:

I noticed on your little chart there that Al Horford was 28.2%.  I also noticed that Karl Anthony Townes was 25%.  I also noticed that Anthony Davis was 15%.  

NUMBERS DON'T LIE...  SPIN THAT.

 

Those numbers include possessions that are dumb turnovers. Keep spinning brah, you can't have a good team with Dwight today unless its a Golden State like team. You need BIG time athleticism to help mask him on the perimeter, a point guard that is willing to stroke his ego and is an excellent shooter, and a PF like Hedo Turkoglu.

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Those numbers include possessions that are dumb turnovers. 

 

[Lurker]

These numbers also don't lie:

6-1 with Dwight Howard not in the lineup, with the offense looking much smoother.
2-9 with Paul Millsap not in the lineup (when it's otherwise starters playing) and the offense looking thoroughly lost.

Keep spinning man, keep spinning, your spin cycle will park itself right back on "Dwight Howard is the problem".

I guess Dwight Howard backers need to see him get ran off of three more teams to get it.

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

 

It's true. Howard either bricks every post shot, turns it over, or helps throw off the offense because its stagnant offense even when he's making the post shots.

[Lurker]

Any thread discussing the offense is going to end up being a Dwight Howard thread because really, that's where it starts at.

The offense is not that hard to run, and it starts with the center complying and not being so worried about posting up. That will never be the center's job in a Bud offense. The center's job is to set screens and dive hard to the hole, creating oppos for themselves or their teammates.

It's really as simple as that. They don't look to Dwight in the post because that's not the offense. It doesn't mean they don't look to Dwight at all, but they don't do it in the post. They do it in PNR and drive and dish.

[CrazyEye]

One Problem with Dwight is also that the defenses realised that they could use his poor foul shooting, after that his dominance declined ... Even if he get the Ball in the Post he rushes his offense, since he know that the defender is better off sending him to the line, then try to defend and fight for position first. i would also say that Dwight was able to finish through contact in the past, while +1 (even with missed FT) get quite rare these days. Also he don't get the ball out again, ok we don't have the shooters like ORL but even in Houston this was a Problem (where he also had the most touches in Post of the NBA without using it).

I liked the Parker comparision more then the Rondo one, yes Parker/Wall still find better options on offense but defense Strenght always was the pick and roll + spot up shooter (which we miss this season). In his "youth" he was also somehow who throw up many lob passes (with good success rate) , after the pick something i hope dwight could do too but he doesn't was an option there.

He need works to get to elite status, but i dont think that Dwight should blame anybody then himself,

 

[NBASupes]

53 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

This is literally my expression when I see a Diesel-Dwight Howard thread or Dennis hate thread from you.

[thecampster]

10 hours ago, Lurker said:

Like I've said, it's a two way dance and on more than just the guy facilitating if whether a guy gets, or doesn't get involved. While you're noticing that Howard just took 4 shots in a certain game, he also might have decided that he wasn't going to bang, there was no point or purpose in him rolling, and to not even try to post up.

And even if Howard decided that he wants to be involved, there's another problem, he and Millsap don't fit on the offensive end because Millsap's three has disappeared (AND THIS STARTED WITH TEAGUE STILL HERE).

It's not that Dennis is perfect, he's not, but you've also overexaggerated on him, he'll play PNR and you can't just look at if he drives in and gives the ball on it to the big, there was a number of modified PNR plays that succeeded that were done with him involved in the playoffs (and I'm not meaning ISO Millsap), but the PNR with Howard got thrown away for the most part. He tried a couple of PNRs with Howard in which I'd have to look at a source that is sketchy to back me up, but on the roll, Howard fumbled and bricked a layup and then dropped a dang pass that was perfectly fine.

The only thing that Dennis won't try is to throw a good post pass.

This is such BS. I watched time and again this season as Howard dove down deep early, sealed his man, Dennis looked at him and then dribbled to the other side of the lane to see if he could now drive.

[rd79]

Offseason is long and I fear that there will be a lot bullshit discussions like this here...

1. That pass from Parker is an example for great playmaking skills? Run into three defenders and somehow throw the ball back? 
2. Dennis can throw fancy passes, he did this even in his backup days. He didn't often in the playoffs, but that's how he managed to average only 1.7 turnovers a game. Something I would bet nobody, really nobody here would have even dreamed of!
3. Reason #1 for making less kicks on his drives: Dennis is much faster than others and often gets to the rim, so when he beats his man on the drive to the basket and has an open layup, who expects him to kick the ball? You only kick the ball if there is no good chance to finish yourself. Giving up a layup for an assist would be an empty assist
4. Reason #2 the guys waiting for the kick couldn't hit a barn this season!
5. Dennis taking ill advised 3pt attempts? He made 42.5% of his threes (2.8 of 6.7) in the playoffs.  Tim (26.2%) and Baze (29.2%) together 3 of 11 per game...
6. I dont have numbers but for my eyes it looked like Dennis passed more often into the post than he did in the regular season
7. Does it matter when Millsap lost some percentage on threes? Watching only him probably not, watching the difference of three point shooting of the combined starting 4 and 5 the answer is: YES! Whether Dwight's positives can match this is another question
8. Dwight looks like he doesn't care very often. During the regular season everybody said: "He'll deliver in the playoffs" but he didn't. Either he was hurt or he is unprofessional and shouldn't be paid that much to be that reluctant on the court

Like I already wrote somewhere else, Dennis still has a lot room for improvement, but blaming him for the setback in the playoffs is stupid. I hope that I now can keep my fingers off the keyboard at least until draft day

Edited May 3, 2017 by rd79

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, rd79 said:

Offseason is long and I fear that there will be a lot bullshit discussions like this here...

1. That pass from Parker is an example for great playmaking skills? Run into three defenders and somehow throw the ball back? 
2. Dennis can throw fancy passes, he did this even in his backup days. He didn't often in the playoffs, but that's how he managed to average only 1.7 turnovers a game. Something I would bet nobody, really nobody here would have even dreamed of!
3. Reason #1 for making less kicks on his drives: Dennis is much faster than others and often gets to the rim, so when he beats his man on the drive to the basket and has an open layup, who expects him to kick the ball? You only kick the ball if there is no good chance to finish yourself. Giving up a layup for an assist would be an empty assist
4. Reason #2 the guys waiting for the kick couldn't hit a barn this season!
5. Dennis taking ill advised 3pt attempts? He made 42.5% of his threes (2.8 of 6.7) in the playoffs.  Tim (26.2%) and Baze (29.2%) together 3 of 11 per game...
6. I dont have numbers but for my eyes it looked like Dennis passed more often into the post than he did in the regular season
7. Does it matter when Millsap lost some percentage on threes? Watching only him probably not, watching the difference of three point shooting of the combined starting 4 and 5 the answer is: YES! Whether Dwight's positives can match this is another question
8. Dwight looks like he doesn't care very often. During the regular season everybody said: "He'll deliver in the playoffs" but he didn't. Either he was hurt or he is unprofessional and shouldn't be paid that much to be that reluctant on the court

Like I already wrote somewhere else, Dennis still has a lot room for improvement, but blaming him for the setback in the playoffs is stupid. I hope that I now can keep my fingers off the keyboard at least until draft day

Per 36,  Dennis is the same guy he has always been.  Doesn't really run the offense, always looks for his score.  That doesn't win.

[AHF]

8 hours ago, Lurker said:

It's true. Howard either bricks every post shot, turns it over, or helps throw off the offense because its stagnant offense even when he's making the post shots.

Why do you make posts like this that so obviously overstate your case?  There is literally never a good possession with him in the post?  Come on.  Howard isn't a great post up player - just stick with reality on him and you have enough material to make a great case.  What Howard needs to do to take on a bigger role in the offense is commit to setting hard screens and rolling hard to the basket.

[rd79]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Per 36,  Dennis is the same guy he has always been.  Doesn't really run the offense, always looks for his score.  That doesn't win.

Per 36... Even if it were true... what's about better competition as a starter and a significant rise of minutes? I'd say matching per 36 numbers is a good thing in one's 1st year as a starter... But what do I know...

"Doesn't really run the offence" - If I only got €1 every time somebody used this phrase without further explanations... 

Edited May 3, 2017 by rd79

[macdaddy]

It's really really simple.   There is nothing wrong with Dennis.   He's a really good PG.  The problem with the whole season was no 3 point shooting.     That's it.   You can dissect whether Dennis runs the offense or Dwight should get more touches or whatever but add in 3 point shooting and it all looks different.   

There were only 3 playoff teams that shot under 35% for the year.   Us, Thunder and Bulls.   Those 3 teams had combined 5 playoff wins this year and all three booted from the 1st round.     

[Lurker]

7 hours ago, thecampster said:

This is such BS. I watched time and again this season as Howard dove down deep early, sealed his man, Dennis looked at him and then dribbled to the other side of the lane to see if he could now drive.

You're still talking about *posting* here. If you expect any guard that plays a "today" game to commit to throwing good post passes....good luck. You're not going to see ANYONE do that and I mean this just sums it up:

Charlotte game when a lot of players were out: Bud actually calls an ATO for Dwight. Both Dennis and Tim look too nervous to throw a post pass to Dwight as they have ZERO confidence in being able to do it well, ZERO, so it ends up in Ersan's hands to try. Your result? Turnover.

Game 6: Dwight is deep in the lane with post position, but Dennis and Paul try to run a PNR anyway and BOTH players completely ignore him. Result? Turnover.

You're not going to reprogram ANY team into being a team that plays through the post, EVEN if it was actually a good idea! It does not matter who is the PG in this case.

[Lurker]

When I'm looking for someone to "dive hard" on PNR, I am NOT looking for them to get post position! I do not consider post offense to be good offense. I'm looking for them to get to the rim and help create attention through that.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Lurker

[AHF]

I don't know that Dennis is the same guy he has always been even on a per minute basis.  Here are the differences I saw this year:

1. He set career highs in FG%, FT%, and TS%.  Scoring the same amount of points per minute but doing it at a more efficient pace is a big change in the right direction. 
2. He set career best in TO% and AST%/TO% ratio.  This shows he continues to move in the right direction as far as his taking care of the ball.  The next big move is improved passing which will happen more quickly if the other people on the floor start making shots at a better clip.

The same raw numbers with significantly improved efficiency amounts to better play on a per minute basis.

[Lurker]

Back on the actual subject, I've said the PG position in the NBA is like the QB position in the NFL. Guys aren't going to really break out at that position until ages 25-30.

I think we've seen what Schröder's upside is likely to be, and now this is going to go away from what people think this is going to be, I think it's 19/7...with better efficiency and better AST%/TO% ratio which he showed hints at at times. And no, we've seen glimpses of this actually working, like in December after Paul returned but it was inconsistent, like wonderful wins vs Toronto and OKC, but on the flip side, some mind boggling losses, like Orlando (mainly because the defense was amazingly bad) and to Minnesota.

When I mean this team is better when it de-emphasizes Howard, I'm talking about stretches like December-January. Although it was helped by a weaker schedule, the team got legitimately better by de-emphasizing Howard and playing a lot of 4 on 4 basketball in this stretch on the offensive end.

[txsting]

It's really really simple.   There is nothing wrong with Dennis.   He's a really good PG.  The problem with the whole season was no 3 point shooting.     That's it.   You can dissect whether Dennis runs the offense or Dwight should get more touches or whatever but add in 3 point shooting and it all looks different.   

There were only 3 playoff teams that shot under 35% for the year.   Us, Thunder and Bulls.   Those 3 teams had combined 5 playoff wins this year and all three booted from the 1st round.     

Yes, yes, and yes. If you can both shoot and defend the 3, I'll put you up against anyone.

 

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