Frank Ntilikina

[Lurker]

That doesn't mean I don't trade the Minnesota 2018. I would if it was in a deal that gets you in the mid-low lottery.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

I'll send you one of those froofroo coffee drinks you ike.

 

[Guest]

Since 2004 Minny has had 10 lottery picks in the 1-10 range (12 lottery picks overall).

13 years and counting since Minny was last in the playoffs.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Since 2004 Minny has had 10 lottery picks in the 1-10 range (12 lottery picks overall).

13 years and counting since Minny was last in the playoffs.

Next year they are in...book it!

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Next year they are in...book it!

My only interest is in  having the pick conveyed.

Unless they fix their putrid defense they won't.

Let's revisit after the draft and free agency when rosters are more or less set, or you can ask @Wretch what he thinks.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

My only interest is in  having the pick conveyed.

Unless they fix their putrid defense they won't.

Let's revisit after the draft and free agency when rosters are more or less set, or you can ask @Wretch what he thinks.

I'm almost 95% sure the Wolves trade the #7 for a vet. If they don't, they are making a big mistake in my opinion. Towns and Wiggins are ready...just give them a couple of vets that know how to win. Yup...revisit soon.

[CP61]

4 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

I'm almost 95% sure the Wolves trade the #7 for a vet. If they don't, they are making a big mistake in my opinion. Towns and Wiggins are ready...just give them a couple of vets that know how to win. Yup...revisit soon.

What if they sign Millsap and trade 7 for Jimmy Butler. Rubio, Butler, Wiggins, Millsap, and KAT with Lavine off the bench is damn good. Millsap would indirectly be doing the Hawks a solid.

[KB21]

19 minutes ago, CP61 said:

What if they sign Millsap and trade 7 for Jimmy Butler. Rubio, Butler, Wiggins, Millsap, and KAT with Lavine off the bench is damn good. Millsap would indirectly be doing the Hawks a solid.

That would do it.

One reason they won't come close to the playoffs as currently constructed is because Andrew Wiggins and Zach Lavine are core players for them.  Neither should be a core player.  Lavine is a reserve combo guard at best, and Wiggins is an inefficient gunner who does very little else.  There is a reason he has a negative BPM in his third season.  Playoff caliber teams don't have Zach Lavine and Andrew Wiggins among their top 3 players.

If they could deal the 7th pick plus for Jimmy Butler and then sign Paul Millsap outright, then suddenly their top three is Butler, Millsap, and Towns.  Now that would get it done.  Millsap and Butler would immediately be their best players and provide much better defense than what they are currently getting.  

[Lurker]

Ah, lets conveniently dance around the FACT that the "losing young team" in the Wolves is about to surpass the "winning older team" in the Hawks in 2017-2018. Its closer than you think, and its going to happen.

What does that say about our middling Hawks?

[KB21]

12 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Ah, lets conveniently dance around the FACT that the "losing young team" in the Wolves is about to surpass the "winning older team" in the Hawks in 2017-2018. Its closer than you think, and its going to happen.

What does that say about our middling Hawks?

The only way they surpass the Hawks is if the Hawks decide to bottom out, and Minnesota adds vets like Millsap and Butler.  If they continue to try and build around Towns, Wiggins, and Lavine, they will continue to miss the playoffs.

You are very clearly overvaluing Andrew Wiggins and Zach Lavine right now.  Fans falsely believe that Wiggins is a future star because he is a volume shooter, but he does nothing else that contributes to winning.  Lavine just isn't a very good player period.

[Lurker]

35 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The only way they surpass the Hawks is if the Hawks decide to bottom out, and Minnesota adds vets like Millsap and Butler.  If they continue to try and build around Towns, Wiggins, and Lavine, they will continue to miss the playoffs.

You are very clearly overvaluing Andrew Wiggins and Zach Lavine right now.  Fans falsely believe that Wiggins is a future star because he is a volume shooter, but he does nothing else that contributes to winning.  Lavine just isn't a very good player period.

Lavine is overrated imo.

You're the only one thats doing the overrating here and its overrating of...the Hawks. The Wolves have swept the Hawks for two years straight and were in reality, just a little worse.

If both do nothing, the Wolves will surpass the Hawks in SRS in 17/18. Bookmark this.

[Lurker]

**were in reality, by SRS just a tiny bit worse than the Hawks this season. They were unlucky and the Hawks were very lucky.

[KB21]

As Bill Parcells says, you are what your record says you are.  I could give two shits what SRS says.  Minnesota is a 31 win team that has to add multiple veteran players who can actually play to make a push for the playoffs.  

Edited May 29, 2017 by KB21

[marco102]

Uhh what happened to the discussion on Frank Ntilikina? 

[Lurker]

After last year and with a different sport, I can no longer be talked into at least a "discussion" when it comes to analytics vs the eye test in sports. Most of the time, there are a few exceptions, the analytics are eventually going to win out vs the eye test. It's not even close to 50/50, its more like 95/5 the analytics are eventually going to win out.

Analytics said the Wolves were a 38 win team. Analytics said the Hawks were a 39 win team. And although I said it came in a different sport that I was no longer open to a discussion with analytics vs eye test, let's be real here, the Hawks did not pass either. It took acts of god for the Hawks to win at least 3 of the 43 games they won, while the Wolves, especially early in the season, were busy blowing double digit leads left and right. Neither is especially sustainable.

I may be wrong and the Hawks might go on another "us against the world" tirade where they put up the analytics of a 55 win team, but if they do nothing other than bring their guys back, their ceiling is realistically: 45 wins, probably without the talent to move further. I expect the Wolves, unless the West goes back to the strength it was in 2015 and before then, to win 41-43 games, buck your "traditionalist ideas", and make the playoffs. So it will be close...

Edit: And that's not the point of this thread. The point is about Frank Ntilikina, so please stop aggressively promoting your idea of "tanking is always horrible!". I'm not supporting tanking when I say it, I'm just saying you're VERY annoying. (and I realize I've been very annoying at times when it comes to Dwight Howard)

Edited May 29, 2017 by Lurker

[Blunt91]

This guy is about 3 years away from contributing if we get him.  I saw a Video on his weakness and the guy is turn over prone.  Unforced turnovers such as dribbling the ball off of his foot, driving to the goal to dish and throwing the ball away to no one, getting his pocket pick because he is holding the ball too long trying to go one on one.

[KB21]

2 hours ago, Blunt91 said:

This guy is about 3 years away from contributing if we get him.  I saw a Video on his weakness and the guy is turn over prone.  Unforced turnovers such as dribbling the ball off of his foot, driving to the goal to dish and throwing the ball away to no one, getting his pocket pick because he is holding the ball too long trying to go one on one.

Honestly, there isn't a 19 year old in this draft that is less than 3 years from contributing to a winning team.  I like Ntilikina's upside as much if not more than many of the more hyped AAU prospects that will go before him.  

It's similar to Dennis Schröder in 2013.  When I watched him in the 2013 Nike Hoop Summit, he was the best player on the floor on either side.  He abused the Harrison twins, both of whom were far more hyped than the little known German.  

I think if drafted by Atlanta, Frank Ntilikina would follow a similar progression: very little time as a rookie/G-League time, back up minutes as a second year player, close to split time with the starter as a third year player, and then starter as a 4th year player.  I mean, if the Hawks decide to resign Tim Hardaway Jr to a 3 year deal, then Ntilikina's progression will likely mean he's starter ready when that deal is up.  

[KB21]

The more I look at these prospects, the more I think that if you want to go with an upside pick, you either move up to get Ntilikina, or you stay at 19 and take Isaiah Hartenstein.  In either case, I think you are looking at a 3 year developmental window, but I think these two young ones have a higher skill level than their American counterparts.  

[CP61]

50 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The more I look at these prospects, the more I think that if you want to go with an upside pick, you either move up to get Ntilikina, or you stay at 19 and take Isaiah Hartenstein.  In either case, I think you are looking at a 3 year developmental window, but I think these two young ones have a higher skill level than their American counterparts.  

I think this about Pasecniks, Jeanne, and Bolden in the second round too. Foreign players are often underrated because nobody pays attention to them all year so there isn't much hype. If these dudes played in the PAC 12, they would all be taken higher.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, CP61 said:

What if they sign Millsap and trade 7 for Jimmy Butler. Rubio, Butler, Wiggins, Millsap, and KAT with Lavine off the bench is damn good. Millsap would indirectly be doing the Hawks a solid.

I don't want them getting that good...with Sap and Butler they could win 55-60 games...I want them to win around 45...getting in as a 7th or 8th seed so we can get our 15-20 pick next year.

 

Butler would be enough...

 

Minny gets : Jimmy Butler

 

Bulls get: Lavine, Dieng, and #7 

 

or

Lavine, Rubio and #7

 

I think that would get Minny around 43-50 wins in the west in year 1.