Maybe we should offer KCP a max

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

3 hours ago, JTB said:

49% from left corner 3 (26 made of 53 taken)

43% from right corner 3 (7 made of 16 taken)

 

I'm going off what I've seen of him watching games as opposed to stats. When his team needed him, he shrunk.

[sturt]

5 hours ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

I will say that I follow the Pistons as well as the Hawks and Detroit isn't happy with KCP's development up to this point. His defense is good, but he is as inconsistent as it gets and reminded me of Smoove Jr. Can't hit a corner three to save his life and his BBIQ is average at best. We'd be smart to let him sign elsewhere.

PSH, I've been reading that there was a distinct difference in his offense following the shoulder injury he had in January, and I've seen stats that bear that out. Do you disagree with those that think his first-half numbers were just a matter of him getting hot, or do you believe the injury actually did have some ramifications to the second-half?

[sturt]

13 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

How is he different than Bembry?

I really don't mind if he's a slightly different version of Bembry, fwiw. I think it's a great weapon to have if you're able to defend the other team's 2s ferociously for 48 minutes. Not many teams ever have had that.

Having said that, I don't want to come off as being all-in on KCP. I'm not. I'm kicking tires here. But I'm eager to see what Schlenk thinks, and broken record that I am, will be good with whatever his judgment ends up being.

[bumpyphish1]

6 hours ago, BrazilianHawk said:

Wait a minute... Millsap isn't worth 30M but somehow KCP is worth 22M? Especially considering we now have a gaping hole at PF and a surplus of SG-types. Inneficient ones ar that, but SGs nonetheless.

Hmm... yeah.

 

Millsap was aging and if not next year, the year after will begin to decline.  KCP is 24 years-old and very much growing as a player.  Really oversimplified and really a pretty flawed thought process there, guy.

5 hours ago, mrhonline said:

Seriously.  How long is it going to take for Hawks' fans to realize this is a lost season?

I hope you aren't referring to me?  This season is definitely a lost season.  I think this season is the only season the org sees as lost though.  Signing KCP for a four year deal is not mutually exclusive with this being a "lost" or "developmental" season.  In fact, we could front-load the contract.  We'd have he, Dennis, and Collins for three more years starting in 2018-19 with Bembry and Prince having two remaining years.  I think between now and next summer, you're gonna see some serious trades from the Hawks to try to add a big name center.

[bumpyphish1]

6 hours ago, capstone21 said:

We brought Tim here on a contract that was like a million dollars and he spent most of the season in the dleage being humbled and also changing his mechanics and mentality.  We were not betting a max contract on him that it would work.  I don't think either guy is worth that kind of contract

That's fine.  You are dead wrong about KCP.  If we could get him for what Tim signed for with NYK, that would be highway robbery.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

PSH, I've been reading that there was a distinct difference in his offense following the shoulder injury he had in January, and I've seen stats that bear that out. Do you disagree with those that think his first-half numbers were just a matter of him getting hot, or do you believe the injury actually did have some ramifications to the second-half?

I think KCP is in the same tier of player that TH Jr is in... He's only worth maybe what we were willing to pay TH Jr.  He's not a guy that's going to take us to the next level, so he isn't worth even a second look at.  I'm off the treadmill and have a front row seat on the tank train.

[Sothron]

No way we should give KCP a max deal. We don't need a max salary on an average NBA starter. Smh.

#TrustTheRebuild

[sturt]

1 minute ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

I think KCP is in the same tier of player that TH Jr is in... He's only worth maybe what we were willing to pay TH Jr.  He's not a guy that's going to take us to the next level, so he isn't worth even a second look at.  I'm off the treadmill and have a front row seat on the tank train.

All good, but is that to say you have no opinion about the question I posed regarding the difference between his first-half and second-half production?

[sturt]

[Kimsey]

He turned down 5 for 80. Maybe he just wanted near max in order to stay in Detroit. He is a very nice player. Players that put that much effort on defense usually don't have much energy to give on offense, THJ seems the opposite of this. 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

44 minutes ago, sturt said:

All good, but is that to say you have no opinion about the question I posed regarding the difference between his first-half and second-half production?

Half of a season does not warrant max money in my eyes.

 

This seems like the same kind of hype that we had for MarShon Brooks quite a few seasons back...

[sturt]

9 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

Half of a season does not warrant max money in my eyes.

 

This seems like the same kind of hype that we had for MarShon Brooks quite a few seasons back...

Um. Still missing the point of my question, with all due respect. Don't jump out ahead of my question as-if I'm looking for you to affirm a particular conclusion, because I'm not. In fact, I've already said max is not a consideration just in view of how the market has developed (or, actually, not developed... to be accurate). You said you follow DET, and I'd just assumed you might be able to give some insight into whether there is any merit to the assertion that his shoulder injury may have played a part in his declining 2nd half numbers.

[AHF]

Is it at all realistic that KCP gets a max deal at this point?  Everything seems to be pointing to him getting a contract well below his ~$100M max.

[Alex]

Why is KCP even being discussed?  I thought the Hawks had no money to sign anyone?  Or is it that they are 20ish million away from the cap of 99 million?  Hard to understand it anymore.

Anyway for the record I would welcome KCP and think he fits what the Hawks think they want.  A young player with room to grow and he already has a solid base.  I would toss the same contract that Timmy got from the Knicks at KCP if in fact the Hawks have money.

[sturt]

41 minutes ago, Alex said:

Why is KCP even being discussed?  I thought the Hawks had no money to sign anyone?  Or is it that they are 20ish million away from the cap of 99 million?  Hard to understand it anymore.

Anyway for the record I would welcome KCP and think he fits what the Hawks think they want.  A young player with room to grow and he already has a solid base.  I would toss the same contract that Timmy got from the Knicks at KCP if in fact the Hawks have money.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/nba-teams-with-cap-room-remaining.html

[marco102]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

Why is KCP even being discussed?  I thought the Hawks had no money to sign anyone?  Or is it that they are 20ish million away from the cap of 99 million?  Hard to understand it anymore.

Anyway for the record I would welcome KCP and think he fits what the Hawks think they want.  A young player with room to grow and he already has a solid base.  I would toss the same contract that Timmy got from the Knicks at KCP if in fact the Hawks have money.

If the Hawks stretch Jamal Crowford's contract, I believe they will have up to $28 million in cap space possibilty up to $30,000,000 if it's low enough and other things fall correctly.

[bumpyphish1]

3 hours ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

I think KCP is in the same tier of player that TH Jr is in... He's only worth maybe what we were willing to pay TH Jr.  He's not a guy that's going to take us to the next level, so he isn't worth even a second look at.  I'm off the treadmill and have a front row seat on the tank train.

My God some fans are so clueless.  Whatever we were willing to pay Tim is a maybe?  You are fricking out of your mind.  KCP is a better player now, younger, and has more room to improve than Hardaway.  This statement is foolish,  Bottom line.  

3 hours ago, Sothron said:

No way we should give KCP a max deal. We don't need a max salary on an average NBA starter. Smh.

#TrustTheRebuild

Why are we talking about max deals.  He isn't gonna get one.  But, if we could sign him for close to what the Knicks gave Hardaway, we would and WILL.  I'm very happy BudSchlenk are making these decisions and not some of the knuckleheads on this site.

"Trust the rebuild."  I do trust their mini-rebuild.  You rebuild around young players.  KCP is gonna end up being a bargain relative to what he was projected to get and probably what he is worth.  I don't think Schlenk will screw this up.  If we have to give Belinelli away for cash to do it, so be it.

[Alex]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

If the Hawks stretch Jamal Crowford's contract, I believe they will have up to $28 million in cap space possibilty up to $30,000,000 if it's low enough and other things fall correctly.

Okay thanks.  I thought we had cap room, but then I read somewhere on here that the Hawks had no wiggle room and that's why Schlenk couldnt sign anyone. Thanks to @sturt as well.  

[bumpyphish1]

Just now, Alex said:

Okay thanks.  I thought we had cap room, but then I read somewhere on here that the Hawks had no wiggle room and that's why Schlenk couldnt sign anyone. Thanks to @sturt as well.  

Don't stretch his contract.  Pay it off now so we have more cap room in the future.  This year is a wash.  Pretty sure we could not stretch his contract and still afford to sign KCP and fill out the roster.  Maybe we'd have to trade Belinelli to do it, and he'd be a more valuable trade asset at the deadline, but absolutely do not stretch his contract.  Leave all the $h*t on the floor this season.

My question is....how many folks minimum do you have to have under contract?  We've got 11 now by my math.  I'd think you gotta have like 13-ish.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/nba-teams-with-cap-room-remaining.html

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, bumpyphish1 said:

Don't stretch his contract.  Pay it off now so we have more cap room in the future.  This year is a wash.  Pretty sure we could not stretch his contract and still afford to sign KCP and fill out the roster.  Maybe we'd have to trade Belinelli to do it, and he'd be a more valuable trade asset at the deadline, but absolutely do not stretch his contract.  Leave all the $h*t on the floor this season.

My question is....how many folks minimum do you have to have under contract?  We've got 11 now by my math.  I'd think you gotta have like 13-ish.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/nba-teams-with-cap-room-remaining.html

A team has to have 13 players or they'll receive the legaue mininum roster charge. I believe its about $815,000 this year.

The Hawks can still stretch Crawford and have plenty of space next year because they can trade for expiring contracts this year and have the option to stretch Plumlee if they so choose.

Hawksfanatic gave an example where the Hawks bought out Crawford for $12,000 and stretched it over 5 years.  The impact was a MAX of $2,400,000 on the cap.  If you consider the anticipated rise in the cap in the next few years, that won't really impact any major future decisions or contracts.

Edited July 10, 2017 by marco102