Anti-tank-thread

[hazer]

20 minutes ago, yungsta said:

All of the anti tanking plans I see relies on Millsap being injury free and  being an all star caliber players in his mid 30’s.

I’m glad we moved on. 2 years ago we were a Millsap injury or decline from being in the pistons/hornets territory.

Some have the tendency to base their outlook solely on history without adjustment for current/future variables. It’s wise to consider and learn from the past, but foolish to dwell there and be blinded by it ?

[KB21]

3 hours ago, hazer said:

Some have the tendency to base their outlook solely on history without adjustment for current/future variables. It’s wise to consider and learn from the past, but foolish to dwell there and be blinded by it ?

This is the typical, "it has never worked before, but it will now" response.  The pro tankers have nothing to lean on to support their position here.

[AHF]

Teams like the Cavs and Astros never bottomed out.  Righhhhttt....

[sillent]

On 11/13/2017 at 5:14 PM, StephenHawking said:

To all the anti-tank members on this forum. 

I have two questions for you.

What would you have done after last season and how would your roster look in 3 years?

I would let Travis Schlenk do his job (leverage) as he is doing and I will trust in coach Pierce to show true talent and make this look like a real team.

I would only put the players out there who want to win and are playing hard on defense.

The roster would have 8 of our young core with Prince, Bembry, Collins, Dorsey, Young, Huerter, Spellman, Adams and a couple of our new picks Len, Anderson while possibly considering keeping Dedmon. Vince Carter can definitely be on the coaching staff or something of that nature involving the team. 

[KB21]

3 hours ago, sillent said:

I would let Travis Schlenk do his job (leverage) as he is doing and I will trust in coach Pierce to show true talent and make this look like a real team.

I would only put the players out there who want to win and are playing hard on defense.

The roster would have 8 of our young core with Prince, Bembry, Collins, Dorsey, Young, Huerter, Spellman, Adams and a couple of our new picks Len, Anderson while possibly considering keeping Dedmon. Vince Carter can definitely be on the coaching staff or something of that nature involving the team. 

This is where we will diverge.  A roster where Bembry, Dorsey, Young, Huerter, Spellman, and Adams are playing rotational minutes is a roster that is going to lose wildly.  Bembry has yet to prove he can stay healthy and is an offensive liability at this point.  Dorsey is not a rotational player, period.  The other four are rookies.  

In an ideal situation, John Collins, Taurean Prince, and Trae Young are all three in a position where they come off the bench as rotational guys while they are developing their games.  This is not an ideal situation though.

[KB21]

This is what we did under Ferry and Bud.  We focused on creating a winning culture and developing championship habits into our players.  Had the Hawks stuck it out, there is very little doubt in my mind that Bud would have brought a championship to Atlanta.

Now, well, the winning culture isn't there, and we don't want to focus on developing champions who make plays that win championships.  We would rather lose for draft position and believe that we can just flip a switch when we feel like we have enough hype/talent.

[kg01]

10 hours ago, KB21 said:

This is what we did under Ferry and Bud.  We focused on creating a winning culture and developing championship habits into our players.  Had the Hawks stuck it out, there is very little doubt in my mind that Bud would have brought a championship to Atlanta.

Now, well, the winning culture isn't there, and we don't want to focus on developing champions who make plays that win championships.  We would rather lose for draft position and believe that we can just flip a switch when we feel like we have enough hype/talent.

#AgendaSquawk

... it's tha re-turn, turn ....

[AHF]

I like Bud's odds better in Milwaukee with a legit superstar already on the roster but I'll tip my cap to that when Bud wins a ring with the Bucks.

[kg01]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

I like Bud's odds better in Milwaukee with a legit superstar already on the roster but I'll tip my cap to that when Bud wins a ring with the Bucks.

Of course we had a superstar(sic) on our roster but, since we're losers and we don't like rings, we let him go.

What's that?  Oh, I'm talkin' 'bout sMelo.  We could've just played hardball and kept him, amirite?

(I'm just taking indiscriminate shots at this point.  I don't even remember who that one was for.  I'm sendin' hot lead all around the board.)

[nathan2331]

This is where we will diverge.  A roster where Bembry, Dorsey, Young, Huerter, Spellman, and Adams are playing rotational minutes is a roster that is going to lose wildly.  Bembry has yet to prove he can stay healthy and is an offensive liability at this point.  Dorsey is not a rotational player, period.  The other four are rookies.  

In an ideal situation, John Collins, Taurean Prince, and Trae Young are all three in a position where they come off the bench as rotational guys while they are developing their games.  This is not an ideal situation though.

You don't really improve sitting on the bench though. I can't think of many stars who didn't become starters near the beginning of their careers. Part of that is the fact that their talent justified them receiving more minutes, but the more responsibilities you are given on the court, the better equipped you'll eventually be to meet them. Of course playing time alone won't guarantee anything, but I'd rather see Collins play 30 minutes a night in front of a veteran who won't be here in 3 seasons, if Collins is playing well in those minutes.

[KB21]

10 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

15 hours ago, KB21 said:

This is where we will diverge.  A roster where Bembry, Dorsey, Young, Huerter, Spellman, and Adams are playing rotational minutes is a roster that is going to lose wildly.  Bembry has yet to prove he can stay healthy and is an offensive liability at this point.  Dorsey is not a rotational player, period.  The other four are rookies.  

In an ideal situation, John Collins, Taurean Prince, and Trae Young are all three in a position where they come off the bench as rotational guys while they are developing their games.  This is not an ideal situation though.

 

You don't really improve sitting on the bench though. I can't think of many stars who didn't become starters near the beginning of their careers. Part of that is the fact that their talent justified them receiving more minutes, but the more responsibilities you are given on the court, the better equipped you'll eventually be to meet them. Of course playing time alone won't guarantee anything, but I'd rather see Collins play 30 minutes a night in front of a veteran who won't be here in 3 seasons, if Collins is playing well in those minutes.

Well, now you have a situation where, if he doesn't play well, he is still going to play because the team has absolutely nothing else on the roster.  That, and the fact that there is no veteran to teach him how to win in the NBA.

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Well, now you have a situation where, if he doesn't play well, he is still going to play because the team has absolutely nothing else on the roster.  That, and the fact that there is no veteran to teach him how to win in the NBA.

Players can develop successfully in different environments.  Peyton Manning was pretty terrible as a rookie and Mike Vick sat behind a vet QB learning as a rookie.  Both turned out to be pretty good players but the differences in their careers were more about who they were as people and players and less about whether they were thrown into the fire before they were ready and had to learn on the job or they were groomed on the sidelines behind a vet to begin their career.  

Paul George struggled as a rookie starter in his first year, DeMar DeRozan struggled through as a starter his rookie season, Deron Williams stumbled through most of his rookie season with heavy minutes, etc.  For some guys, the experience of struggling through those rookie seasons with significant minutes ends up leading to them making some big jumps in their production as sophmores.  It isn't for everyone, though, and you can probably blame some guys for getting burned too much and it negatively impacting their development.  Different approaches for different players.

[nathan2331]

 

 

Well, now you have a situation where, if he doesn't play well, he is still going to play because the team has absolutely nothing else on the roster.  That, and the fact that there is no veteran to teach him how to win in the NBA.

 

The team is no worse than it was last year. Hypothetically if Collins was playing like trash, you can easily put a combination on the floor including Dedmon, Len, Spellman, Bumlee or Prince, or you go towards the end of the bench and start playing guys like Justin Anderson out of position. We wouldn't games playing like that, but it's not like we don't have the bodies.

[macdaddy]

30 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

The team is no worse than it was last year. Hypothetically if Collins was playing like trash, you can easily put a combination on the floor including Dedmon, Len, Spellman, Bumlee or Prince, or you go towards the end of the bench and start playing guys like Justin Anderson out of position. We wouldn't games playing like that, but it's not like we don't have the bodies.

Right now we have no proven, healthy players at PG and PF.   That could be a big problem or a great opportunity.  the good news is we have high talent young guys fielding those positions so they could really break out.

 

 

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Right now we have no proven, healthy players at PG and PF.   That could be a big problem or a great opportunity.  the good news is we have high talent young guys fielding those positions so they could really break out BY THEIR THIRD YEAR.

 

 

Added a little something to your post.

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Added a little something to your post.

Not necessarily.   Look how good Collins was by the end of the year.   Donovan Mitchell, Ben Simmons, KAT, Kristaps.

Lots of guys come along quicker.  How good would Teague have been his first 2 years if given the chance? 

[KB21]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Not necessarily.   Look how good Collins was by the end of the year.   Donovan Mitchell, Ben Simmons, KAT, Kristaps.

Lots of guys come along quicker.  How good would Teague have been his first 2 years if given the chance? 

The large majority of them do not play well immediately, and a good many of them don't really get any better despite playing (Andrew Wiggins, D'Angelo Russell...etc)

[nathan2331]

The large majority of them do not play well immediately, and a good many of them don't really get any better despite playing (Andrew Wiggins, D'Angelo Russell...etc)

That's true too, but a change of role/scenery could see those guys make improvements. Someone like Oladipo was underwhelming until he got to Indiana. He was always talented though.