Lil Goldie is just like Teague but with far more aggression

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

1,  Very close.  The main inflated passing stat is Ass%.   Meaning when I see arguments with that as the lead.. I cringe.  Also A/TO.  His A/TO will be high because we run Isoball.   Isoball players get really good A/TO.. it's an inflation because of style of play not because he's a "superior Passer" 

2.  Scoring PGs are only acceptable when you have a passing team.   Watch the ball whip around with those scoring PGs and then watch how the ball gets stuck with Isoschro.   Then watch how those scoring PGs with the exception of Westbrook move without the ball.   Then Watch Isoschro become disengaged if the play is not him pounding the ball.   I'm not saying that a scoring PG can't win, I'm saying that there's a formula for a scoring PG to be successful and the only PGs in the league that can supersede that formula are Curry and Wall. 

 

So we have an isoteam with an isopoint guard which is why his assist percentage and A/T ratio is high but its overall bad for the team and will result in the firing of Bud.

Also there are only 2 scoring point guards that can possibly get away with being a scoring point guards in the leagus and those 2 are Curry and Wall.

Did I get it right this time?

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

Who in here considers Tony Parker a true traditional  pg? 

 

Definitely not a pass first guy or special passer.  At all.  But fit as a good and valuable cog in the Spur system.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, marco102 said:

Sigh.  Ask yourself this.  If Dennis wasn't doing what Bud wanted, would Bud Bench him?

 

So by your logic, Dennis and Baze and Moose are doing what Bud wants.   Moreover, back when we had Teague, Dennis had a quick yank.  Bud would yank him in a femtosecond.   Now, Dennis is doing much of the same things that got him yanked then but we have nobody to go to. 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Definitely not a pass first guy or special passer.  At all.  But fit as a good and valuable cog in the Spur system.

That's just it.  SpurBall or BudBall or even Warriorball requires that players be cogs in the system.   Dennis won't be that.   Never have wanted to be that. 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

So we have an isoteam with an isopoint guard which is why his assist percentage and A/T ratio is high but its overall bad for the team and will result in the firing of Bud.

Also there are only 2 scoring point guards that can possibly get away with being a scoring point guards in the leagus and those 2 are Curry and Wall.

Did I get it right this time?

JJ never had an A/TO ratio that Dennis has despite the team being more iso heavy.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

So we have an isoteam with an isopoint guard which is why his assist percentage and A/T ratio is high but its overall bad for the team and will result in the firing of Bud.

Also there are only 2 scoring point guards that can possibly get away with being a scoring point guards in the leagus and those 2 are Curry and Wall.

Did I get it right this time?

Right. 

 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, JTB said:

You act like these same players been playing together for years and they know buds scheme inside out but that’s not the case. C’MON MAN!

While Dennis has been around as well as Baze, bud ball is not focused primarily on just one player setting up the whole team (you should know that...we aren’t running a  Dantoni type scheme where primarily the point guard is responsible for getting the team set and running each and every play every time down court  ). 

 

REALIZE THAT THIS ISNT A VET TEAM:

It’s not rocket science...the hawks are missing key vet guys like korver, DMC, Millsap, horford who were here to do those little things off ball that helped make the offense go. If you ask me I’m starting to think you believed Jeff Teague was CP3, Nash or someone that year we won 60 games lol...and that wasn’t him at all.

 

ARE YOU WATCHING THE GAMES:

If you are actually watching the games there are some similar plays like Marco trying to be korver like but he’s just not him , it’s not the same affect running those pin down screens with him as it was with korver. Prince I’m not sure what the hell Prince is doing ! He’s not playing the DMC role he’s trying to do a lot more but maybe that’s what bud wants him to do. Baze is trying to be a secondary playmaker that he can’t truly be and make up for the playmakers we lost in Millsap and horford....meanwhile Dennis is playing Teagues role better than Teagues All Star year.

 

YOUR ARGUMENT IS TOO EARLY UNDER THE SCHLENK ERA:

.....your comments are unfair for a team whose trying to learn how to play together, for team that’s just extremely young right now, and for a team that literally does not have all its major parts yet! (News flash that’s why we are tanking even you haven’t noticed). Looking for perfection without all the parts being here is just silly to do. At least wait for Schlenk to completely build out the roster to his vision  and then let’s judge if they are playing perfect bud ball or not.

1.  So it takes them being together for a number of years for Dennis to pass them the ball and to not be an isoteam.  Damn.  Suprising that Kyrie can go to Boston and fit right in.  Al too.   Jaylen Brown too.   Tatum too.   However, if you say that it takes years... OK.  I mean, it's amazing that Lonzo Ball can go to LAL in his rookie year playing with a young team and average 10, 7, and 7.  I mean the Lakers are the third youngest team in the League... 24.25 y.o. average.   But if you say that we must wait a specific amount of time before our PG will be able to pass to his teammates... Like Lonzo Ball passes to his, then maybe Ball is just better and will be as good as his father said and we just have to wait it out with Dennis. 

 

[Diesel]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

JJ never had an A/TO ratio that Dennis has despite the team being more iso heavy.

That's true.   Joe's high A/TO was 2.32 and Dennis now is at 2.68.   However, in that year, Joe's Usage rate was 26.6 while Dennis is 29.5.  Somewhere in there is a correlation that says when you handle the ball more and shoot more shots, you will have more assist and an equal or lesser number of turnovers. .. And I think that's what we see with Dennis.   He's handling the ball more.  So he's more IsoSchro than IsoJoe was IsoJoe.   

[Diesel]

The Advantage of shooting more shots. 

Quote

Statistics like Turnover Percentage, Usage and Assist Percentage seem valuable and there is information in them. However, without making sure to examine them closely, we can be fooled in the same way NBA voters and fans are fooled year after year. There is a very simple fact about basketball: missing shots is bad. In doing analysis we can’t ignore this fact. As I’ve shown above, three advanced statistics all go up if a player just shoots more and it doesn’t matter if they shoot well or not. To just take these at face value and not ask: “Is the player actually shooting well?” is a good way to get burned.

 

[nathan2331]

That was a good article, but still don't agree with your conclusion. If Dennis hit threes consistently or if refs started giving him calls his advanced stats would look much more favorable.

 

Both of those things could happen one day. If he became a 40% 3 point shooter or drew 6 FTs a game, he'd be an all-star. That (and defense) is pretty much all that separates him from a guy like Lowry. And on a better team I'd imagine Dennis would have an easier getting assists or driving to the basket, so I think he's fine as our longterm point guard. Maybe we could find marginally better, but you could do much worse.

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

That was a good article, but still don't agree with your conclusion. If Dennis hit threes consistently or if refs started giving him calls his advanced stats would look much more favorable.

 

Both of those things could happen one day. If he became a 40% 3 point shooter or drew 6 FTs a game, he'd be an all-star. That (and defense) is pretty much all that separates him from a guy like Lowry. And on a better team I'd imagine Dennis would have an easier getting assists or driving to the basket, so I think he's fine as our longterm point guard. Maybe we could find marginally better, but you could do much worse.

The thing about the article is that the more you have the ball and the more you shoot the ball, the more those statistics will go up.   Inflate.   It doesn't matter if it's good shots or bad shots, it's shots.   Dennis has the ball the most on our team.   Even on a night where Prince scores 30 points on 75% shooting, Dennis puts up more shots than him.

You call it. 

[AHF]

Handling the ball more gets you more assists and more turnovers.

JJ had more touches than Dennis as well by virtue of his minutes.  (I.e. The higher usage rate is outpaced by Joe's higher minutes).  Just never came close to the per minute assists which meant with his substantial turnover totals that he could never match Dennis's ratio.

Joe's teams were frequently ranked in the 20's for assists (unlike the current Hawks) and never cracked the top 10 while Joe was leading the team in assists.  The ball moves more today than during Joe's era.

[nathan2331]

 

 

The thing about the article is that the more you have the ball and the more you shoot the ball, the more those statistics will go up.   Inflate.   It doesn't matter if it's good shots or bad shots, it's shots.   Dennis has the ball the most on our team.   Even on a night where Prince scores 30 points on 75% shooting, Dennis puts up more shots than him.

You call it. 

 

Who's better at getting their own shot? Dennis shoots the ball more out of necessity. If Prince gets the ball he's not usually doing much with it, same with Baze, same with Bellinelli, same with everyone else. If Dennis passed the ball constantly, the offense would grind to a halt because no one else constantly beats their man off the dribble or forces a double team in the post.

 

Prince did have a great game, but how many times did he put the ball on the floor to make things happen? That's not a criticism, that's just reality. Prince is limited when the 3 point shot isn't falling as is the majority of the roster currently. Dennis is the only guy who can drive to the rim at will, hence why he ends up with more shots for better or worse. Get a proper slasher at SG and Dennis will take less bad shots. Get a bona fide center who can score the ball and Dennis will pass to him.

 

It took the 2014 Hawks a year to build it's chemistry and we don't even have the personnel yet to expect similar results. Dennis hasn't shown me he's a bad team player, compared to someone like Westbrook. His attitude at times might be questionable, but he wants to win and he knows he can't do it by himself. If we make some improvements this off-season, we'll be a much better team next year.

[MaceCase]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

Begging the question.   You make ass% leading sound like a GOOD THING??  Is that what you think?  It practically means that he has the ball all the time. 

What I'm saying falls in line with this article. 

 

 It would behoove you to actually read and digest the information you like to quote so as to not make the continuous mistake of using information that doesn't support your "point".

Dennis the me-first-selfish-player has a career 1.26 assist to usage ratio.  Tony Parker the great pass-first-distributor has a career 1.28 assist to usage ratio.

Of the 21 players ahead of Dennis in Usage% only LeBron James, James Harden, and Russell Westbrook have higher assist percentages.

This would suggest that:

A) you are wrong in your player evaluations.

B) you are wrong in believing simply having the ball more automatically equates to having a league leading assist%.

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, AHF said:

Handling the ball more gets you more assists and more turnovers.

JJ had more touches than Dennis as well by virtue of his minutes.  (I.e. The higher usage rate is outpaced by Joe's higher minutes).  Just never came close to the per minute assists which meant with his substantial turnover totals that he could never match Dennis's ratio.

Joe's teams were frequently ranked in the 20's for assists (unlike the current Hawks) and never cracked the top 10 while Joe was leading the team in assists.  The ball moves more today than during Joe's era.

Joe's whole team was Isoball.   I mean, Josh Smith.   Etc.  However  it's Staggering.

Joe was our Startng SG.  He put up 18 FGs per game over 39.5 mpg. 

Schro is our PG.  He's putting up 17.4 FGs per game over 32.3 mpg. 

 

Now, if you're calling Joe the ISO King..  If you just looked at the simple math... Joe put up 0.46 shots per minutes to Dennis' 0.54 shots per minute.  That's a SG vs. a PG. 

Let's put some more reference to it:

• Dennis = 0.54 fg/min
• Harden = 0.59 fg/min
• Westbrook = 0.58 fg/min
• Curry = 0.54 fg/min
• Wall - 0.46 fg/min
• Conley = 0.45 fg/min
• Parker (@ 24y.o.) = 0.44 fg/min

Do you think that Dennis needs to be putting up shots at the rate of Steph Curry.  In the vicinity of Westbrook and Hardin?  I'm on the record of saying that the only PGs who should be able to put up mefirst stats are Curry and Wall.   Mainly because their assists and FG% and team will make up the difference.   However, with none of that going for him, Dennis is outpacing Steph. Just for grins, I look at Lebron James.   I found his highest FGA output.. in the year of his highest FGA output, he was putting up 0.54 fg,minutes. That year, he played beside Larry Hughes and Ronald Murry as his 2nd and 3rd highest FGA and neither of them played longer than 32 games. 

So Dennis is shooting more shots per minute than even Lebron did when he had nothing.   That's a PG vs. the face of the League. 

ISOSchro is alive and well. 

[AHF]

Schro is far from perfect but his shot rate hasn't changed much from when Bud benched Teague and then shipped him out to start Dennis.  I tend to think he made that choice deliberately.

[Peoriabird]

Told you Big "D" was looking for some obscure stat to support his argument

[StephenHawking]

vor 2 Stunden, Diesel sagte:

Joe's whole team was Isoball.   I mean, Josh Smith.   Etc.  However  it's Staggering.

Joe was our Startng SG.  He put up 18 FGs per game over 39.5 mpg. 

Schro is our PG.  He's putting up 17.4 FGs per game over 32.3 mpg. 

 

Now, if you're calling Joe the ISO King..  If you just looked at the simple math... Joe put up 0.46 shots per minutes to Dennis' 0.54 shots per minute.  That's a SG vs. a PG. 

Let's put some more reference to it:

• Dennis = 0.54 fg/min
• Harden = 0.59 fg/min
• Westbrook = 0.58 fg/min
• Curry = 0.54 fg/min
• Wall - 0.46 fg/min
• Conley = 0.45 fg/min
• Parker (@ 24y.o.) = 0.44 fg/min

Do you think that Dennis needs to be putting up shots at the rate of Steph Curry.  In the vicinity of Westbrook and Hardin?  I'm on the record of saying that the only PGs who should be able to put up mefirst stats are Curry and Wall.   Mainly because their assists and FG% and team will make up the difference.   However, with none of that going for him, Dennis is outpacing Steph. Just for grins, I look at Lebron James.   I found his highest FGA output.. in the year of his highest FGA output, he was putting up 0.54 fg,minutes. That year, he played beside Larry Hughes and Ronald Murry as his 2nd and 3rd highest FGA and neither of them played longer than 32 games. 

So Dennis is shooting more shots per minute than even Lebron did when he had nothing.   That's a PG vs. the face of the League. 

ISOSchro is alive and well. 

0 sense.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Told you Big "D" was looking for some obscure stat to support his argument

It is tough to see the negative comparison on assists to Joe with arguments about more touches leading to better number when Joe had more touches, measuring based on team numbers when Dennis' team assist numbers are much better and measuring based on individual numbers when raw numbers, rates and ratios all point to Dennis between the two.  I guess we are now discarding all those factors and focusing on shot rate where Dennis does take 18.9% of the team's shots in his age 24 season compared to Joe's 21.5% of team shots his age 24 season or Joe's 22.8% of team shots his first healthy All-Star season or JJ's 22.0% the following season.

[StephenHawking]

vor 2 Stunden, Diesel sagte:

Joe's whole team was Isoball.   I mean, Josh Smith.   Etc.  However  it's Staggering.

Joe was our Startng SG.  He put up 18 FGs per game over 39.5 mpg. 

Schro is our PG.  He's putting up 17.4 FGs per game over 32.3 mpg. 

 

Now, if you're calling Joe the ISO King..  If you just looked at the simple math... Joe put up 0.46 shots per minutes to Dennis' 0.54 shots per minute.  That's a SG vs. a PG. 

Let's put some more reference to it:

• Dennis = 0.54 fg/min
• Harden = 0.59 fg/min
• Westbrook = 0.58 fg/min
• Curry = 0.54 fg/min
• Wall - 0.46 fg/min
• Conley = 0.45 fg/min
• Parker (@ 24y.o.) = 0.44 fg/min

Do you think that Dennis needs to be putting up shots at the rate of Steph Curry.  In the vicinity of Westbrook and Hardin?  I'm on the record of saying that the only PGs who should be able to put up mefirst stats are Curry and Wall.   Mainly because their assists and FG% and team will make up the difference.   However, with none of that going for him, Dennis is outpacing Steph. Just for grins, I look at Lebron James.   I found his highest FGA output.. in the year of his highest FGA output, he was putting up 0.54 fg,minutes. That year, he played beside Larry Hughes and Ronald Murry as his 2nd and 3rd highest FGA and neither of them played longer than 32 games. 

So Dennis is shooting more shots per minute than even Lebron did when he had nothing.   That's a PG vs. the face of the League. 

ISOSchro is alive and well. 

You lack profound knowledge if you consider Wall a worthy mefirst option over Dennis. 

Wall is barely 0.5% true shooting. 

Moreover your whole argument is flawed and a wild attempt in destroying Dennis rep'. 

The nonsensical comparison of nba superstars with Dennis will leave Dennis on the short end anyway. 

NOBODY says Dennis is as good as Harden Curry Lebron etc. So tell me what's the point in comparing them? 

If he'd be as efficient as those guys we would talk about a top 5 player in the game. 

He is not and we all know that. 

STILL he's a good player.