Lil Goldie is just like Teague but with far more aggression

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

In fairness, Dwight was good cleaning up but not particularly good in the post.  He hasn't been good in the post for years.

We have time.  We will see this occur more... Now it's Collins, next maybe Dedmon.   I suspect that there will be a whole lot of guys limited playing beside Dennis because Dennis doesn't value getting other guys going.  And for Northcyde... there are plenty of players who were "unselfish" and prospered.   Not everybody played like Reggie Miller.   There were some Mark Jacksons and Kenny Smiths.  The point is that the PG has to know how to get other players going and be unselfish when he needs to be... he should also be able to score when other teams dare him to be the scorer.   But what that is not is a guy who is looking to score all the time and uses his passing as something that he has to do because he can't find a way to score. 

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

We have time.  We will see this occur more... Now it's Collins, next maybe Dedmon.   I suspect that there will be a whole lot of guys limited playing beside Dennis because Dennis doesn't value getting other guys going.  And for Northcyde... there are plenty of players who were "unselfish" and prospered.   Not everybody played like Reggie Miller.   There were some Mark Jacksons and Kenny Smiths.  The point is that the PG has to know how to get other players going and be unselfish when he needs to be... he should also be able to score when other teams dare him to be the scorer.   But what that is not is a guy who is looking to score all the time and uses his passing as something that he has to do because he can't find a way to score. 

Didn't you want the Hawks to trade for Kyrie Irving?

[Lurker]

If I saw clear thought that the gameplan was to let John Collins do more than just PNR I wouldn't be talking this way, but I'm preeeetttttyyyyy sure what we're seeing is coaching based with him, especially when it's the same thing with every guard on the team.

I think this season was somewhat of an overreaction to what happened with Dwight in general.

And it's not that he doesn't get involved, he does, it'd be nice if he was allowed to do more. I'm not sure he is and if he was being allowed to get involved in the post by the other guards on the team, I'd think it's Dennis. But he's not so I think it's Bud.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

25 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

And he was playing alongside one of the best scorers in the league . . . and future Hall of Famer.

You honestly think that Dennis could average 8 points and 9 assists, and see the Hawks be more successful, than him averaging 20 ppg and 6 assists?

He just went for 33 pts - 7 assists tonight.  And they needed every bit of that to win tonight.

Edited December 24, 2017 by TheNorthCydeRises

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Didn't you want the Hawks to trade for Kyrie Irving?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

26 minutes ago, Diesel said:

We have time.  We will see this occur more... Now it's Collins, next maybe Dedmon.   I suspect that there will be a whole lot of guys limited playing beside Dennis because Dennis doesn't value getting other guys going.  And for Northcyde... there are plenty of players who were "unselfish" and prospered.   Not everybody played like Reggie Miller.   There were some Mark Jacksons and Kenny Smiths.  The point is that the PG has to know how to get other players going and be unselfish when he needs to be... he should also be able to score when other teams dare him to be the scorer.   But what that is not is a guy who is looking to score all the time and uses his passing as something that he has to do because he can't find a way to score. 

Play him with the right personnel.

 

 

[deester11]

12 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

And he was playing alongside one of the best scorers in the league . . . and future Hall of Famer.

You honestly think that Dennis could average 8 points and 9 assists, and see the Hawks be more successful, than him averaging 20 ppg and 6 assists?

He just went for 33 pts - 7 assists tonight.  And they needed every bit of that to win tonight.

Don't confuse us with the truth.  We'd rather support the tired Dennis sucks analogy (amirite)? 

Dennis has his worts, but to suggest he is remotely the biggest problem on this team is wrong.  Isn't he 2 assists better per than his career average with worst supporting cast members?  If he's traded, I want more assets but I'm not hoping for another Teague personally.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

12 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Play him with the right personnel.

 

 

Let's break down this video, and the assists Dennis had with Collins.

 

0:36 - With Prince on the left side, Collins screens for Dennis at the top of the arc to free him up to receive the pass.  When Dennis receives the pass, his defender is a full 2 steps behind him.  The only person between Dennis and the basket, is Lamarcus Aldridge at the FT line.    Collins immediately rolls to the basket as Dennis is catching the ball, setting up a textbook pick and roll play.  With 2 dribble toward the basket, Dennis is able to beat LA enough to deliver a perfect left hand bounce pass to Collins, who has an easy dunk.

 

0:49 - I can't tell who is at the Hawks logo initiating the offense.  I'll say that's Babbitt  As he passes it to Delaney, Dennis and I think Luke Babbitt are running a 2 man game, in which Babbit is setting an off screen to free up Dennis for a layup.  Dennis goes around the screen, badly beating Kyrie Irving, and is streaking toward the basket.  Meanwhile, as soon as Delaney catches the ball, he throws an excellent bounce pass to the cutting Dennis. 

Al Horford, being the good team defender he is, leaves Collins in the short corner and sprints toward the basket to prevent Dennis from getting an easy layup.  Dennis would have to make a tough reverse layup with Horford right there, if he decides to shoot it.  But Dennis sees Collins cutting toward the basket ( something that most of our jump shooting "bigs" don't do ), and he delivers an easy pass to Collins for the 2 hand dunk. Great awareness by both Dennis and Collins at the end.

 

1:03 - Dennis is being guarded by Austin Rivers out by the Hawks logo.  With Cavanaugh moving across his line of sight at the 3 point line, Dennis does a hard attack on the left side, drawing the eyes of 4 Clippers, most notably Deandre Jordan, who is shading off of Collins to possibly protect the rim against Dennis attack.   Dennis sees this all the way, and tosses up a "floater alley oop" to Collins, who slams it home.  Dennis was quite happy with himself after this play.

 

1:12 - Ilyasova sets an interesting type of screen for Dennis, with his back to the defender, then quickly slipping off of it, going to his right.  Collins, who was trailing, then quickly sets another screen for Dennis on his left side, to initiate the pick and roll attack.  Dennis drives left toward the top of the key, but he has Drummond rushing out to him to prevent him from getting into the lane.  No problem, says Dennis . . . I'll just drop this 2 hand bounce pass to my boy Collins, who has a wide open path to the basket for the dunk.  Collins doesn't even have to think about.  By the time he turns to roll, the ball is already on its way to him.

 

1:38 - After trying to set a pick for Dennis out by the 3 point line on the right side, Dennis finds himself in a little bit of trouble.  Instead of worrying about Collins, both Bam Adebayo and Tyler Johnson blitz Dennis and doubles him. ( Good strategy, by the way ).  Bam shows decent lateral quickness by forcing Dennis left.  Johnson is out of position, trailing both Bam and Dennis.   When Dennis finally gets enough daylight to get into the paint, he knows that Collins is going to be somewhere around the basket.  And despite Jordan Mickey knowing that Collins is behind him, he ends up watching Dennis and the ball, which gets him dunked on by Collins.  Tremendous pass by Dennis on this play.

 

1:45 - No need to break down this play because it's the EXACT SAME PLAY that we saw at 1:03.  Same players.  Same actions.  Same results.

 

2:19 - Pick and roll again with Collins and Dennis, this time at the top of the arc.  The Heat once again decide to blitz Dennis and double him.  Bam is in the correct position, blocking off Dennis.  But Dennis doesn't try to beat him off the dribble this time.  Instead, take s one dribble to the right, and throws a beautiful pass around Bam to the cutting Collins for the dunk.

 

2:31 - Dennis with the "hockey assist" on this play.  After Bembry fakes a screen on Dennis' man, he drifts to the right side of the FT line.  Once he makes this action, Dennis goes left and throws a slick backhand bounce pass to Bembry.  Bembry catches the pass as he's going to the basket, and immediately tosses it to the cutting Collins along the baseline, who goes in for the dunk.  Great awareness by Bembry on this play, because he had 3 defenders looking to stop his drive.  But that play doesn't happen unless Dennis finds him initially.

 

2:38 - Pick and roll again with Collins, out by the 3 point line on the left side.  LaMarcus Aldridge doesn't blitz the screen, unlike what the Heat does, and decides to protect against the drive.  Only one problem.  The guy that you're supposed to be guarding, is an athletic freak, and he's drifting behind you off of the roll.   As soon as LA goes to cut off Dennis, he finds Collins rolling to the basket.  With Dedmon also in the game, all Pau Gasol can do is watch Collins streak toward the basket for the dunk.

 

2:45 - Pick and roll action again with Dennis and Collins, at the top of the arc.  Pacers defend it the classic way, with the big man rolling back toward the basket to prevent the layup.  But once again, the guy that Myles Turner is guarding, is not a jump shooting big.  He's a guy that likes to go up and get it.  Dennis is patient in his drive, and waits for Turner to clear the lane just enough so that he can toss the lob to Collins.

 

(( See a pattern here folks? ))

 

Before some of you go off on the deep end about Dennis, tell the coaching staff to play him with a guy who can make his life as a playmaker a whole lot easier.  With Collins not in the game, Dennis is forced to either drive it all the way to the rim, or kick long passes out to shooters at the 3 point line.  If the defender doesn't leave those shooters, or if our bigs stay camped out at the 3 point line, Dennis has to shoot the ball.  And with those other guys, everything is "pick and pop", not pick and roll.

Colling brings a totally different dynamic to the team, because he's athletic enough to make plays around the rim.  And while Dwight was good around the rim last year, he wasn't running the pick and roll action that Collins is doing for us.

When you're tanking, you don't necessarily want to put the best grouping together, or have "too much" chemistry developing.

So until this coaching staff and organization decide that they're SERIOUS about winning games . . . 

Leave Dennis Alone.

 

[deester11]

@TheNorthCydeRises it just goes to show that when people have agendas they won't see past it.  Dennis is almost at 7 assists per game but who cares because it's an "empty" stat to him.  

[JTB]

4 hours ago, deester11 said:

@TheNorthCydeRises it just goes to show that when people have agendas they won't see past it.  Dennis is almost at 7 assists per game but who cares because it's an "empty" stat to him.  

Exactly so don’t waste your time trying to convince people otherwise. Some around here will never get it

[Diesel]

On 12/24/2017 at 0:40 PM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Let's break down this video, and the assists Dennis had with Collins.

 

0:36 - With Prince on the left side, Collins screens for Dennis at the top of the arc to free him up to receive the pass.  When Dennis receives the pass, his defender is a full 2 steps behind him.  The only person between Dennis and the basket, is Lamarcus Aldridge at the FT line.    Collins immediately rolls to the basket as Dennis is catching the ball, setting up a textbook pick and roll play.  With 2 dribble toward the basket, Dennis is able to beat LA enough to deliver a perfect left hand bounce pass to Collins, who has an easy dunk.

 

0:49 - I can't tell who is at the Hawks logo initiating the offense.  I'll say that's Babbitt  As he passes it to Delaney, Dennis and I think Luke Babbitt are running a 2 man game, in which Babbit is setting an off screen to free up Dennis for a layup.  Dennis goes around the screen, badly beating Kyrie Irving, and is streaking toward the basket.  Meanwhile, as soon as Delaney catches the ball, he throws an excellent bounce pass to the cutting Dennis. 

Al Horford, being the good team defender he is, leaves Collins in the short corner and sprints toward the basket to prevent Dennis from getting an easy layup.  Dennis would have to make a tough reverse layup with Horford right there, if he decides to shoot it.  But Dennis sees Collins cutting toward the basket ( something that most of our jump shooting "bigs" don't do ), and he delivers an easy pass to Collins for the 2 hand dunk. Great awareness by both Dennis and Collins at the end.

 

1:03 - Dennis is being guarded by Austin Rivers out by the Hawks logo.  With Cavanaugh moving across his line of sight at the 3 point line, Dennis does a hard attack on the left side, drawing the eyes of 4 Clippers, most notably Deandre Jordan, who is shading off of Collins to possibly protect the rim against Dennis attack.   Dennis sees this all the way, and tosses up a "floater alley oop" to Collins, who slams it home.  Dennis was quite happy with himself after this play.

 

1:12 - Ilyasova sets an interesting type of screen for Dennis, with his back to the defender, then quickly slipping off of it, going to his right.  Collins, who was trailing, then quickly sets another screen for Dennis on his left side, to initiate the pick and roll attack.  Dennis drives left toward the top of the key, but he has Drummond rushing out to him to prevent him from getting into the lane.  No problem, says Dennis . . . I'll just drop this 2 hand bounce pass to my boy Collins, who has a wide open path to the basket for the dunk.  Collins doesn't even have to think about.  By the time he turns to roll, the ball is already on its way to him.

 

1:38 - After trying to set a pick for Dennis out by the 3 point line on the right side, Dennis finds himself in a little bit of trouble.  Instead of worrying about Collins, both Bam Adebayo and Tyler Johnson blitz Dennis and doubles him. ( Good strategy, by the way ).  Bam shows decent lateral quickness by forcing Dennis left.  Johnson is out of position, trailing both Bam and Dennis.   When Dennis finally gets enough daylight to get into the paint, he knows that Collins is going to be somewhere around the basket.  And despite Jordan Mickey knowing that Collins is behind him, he ends up watching Dennis and the ball, which gets him dunked on by Collins.  Tremendous pass by Dennis on this play.

 

1:45 - No need to break down this play because it's the EXACT SAME PLAY that we saw at 1:03.  Same players.  Same actions.  Same results.

 

2:19 - Pick and roll again with Collins and Dennis, this time at the top of the arc.  The Heat once again decide to blitz Dennis and double him.  Bam is in the correct position, blocking off Dennis.  But Dennis doesn't try to beat him off the dribble this time.  Instead, take s one dribble to the right, and throws a beautiful pass around Bam to the cutting Collins for the dunk.

 

2:31 - Dennis with the "hockey assist" on this play.  After Bembry fakes a screen on Dennis' man, he drifts to the right side of the FT line.  Once he makes this action, Dennis goes left and throws a slick backhand bounce pass to Bembry.  Bembry catches the pass as he's going to the basket, and immediately tosses it to the cutting Collins along the baseline, who goes in for the dunk.  Great awareness by Bembry on this play, because he had 3 defenders looking to stop his drive.  But that play doesn't happen unless Dennis finds him initially.

 

2:38 - Pick and roll again with Collins, out by the 3 point line on the left side.  LaMarcus Aldridge doesn't blitz the screen, unlike what the Heat does, and decides to protect against the drive.  Only one problem.  The guy that you're supposed to be guarding, is an athletic freak, and he's drifting behind you off of the roll.   As soon as LA goes to cut off Dennis, he finds Collins rolling to the basket.  With Dedmon also in the game, all Pau Gasol can do is watch Collins streak toward the basket for the dunk.

 

2:45 - Pick and roll action again with Dennis and Collins, at the top of the arc.  Pacers defend it the classic way, with the big man rolling back toward the basket to prevent the layup.  But once again, the guy that Myles Turner is guarding, is not a jump shooting big.  He's a guy that likes to go up and get it.  Dennis is patient in his drive, and waits for Turner to clear the lane just enough so that he can toss the lob to Collins.

 

(( See a pattern here folks? ))

 

Before some of you go off on the deep end about Dennis, tell the coaching staff to play him with a guy who can make his life as a playmaker a whole lot easier.  With Collins not in the game, Dennis is forced to either drive it all the way to the rim, or kick long passes out to shooters at the 3 point line.  If the defender doesn't leave those shooters, or if our bigs stay camped out at the 3 point line, Dennis has to shoot the ball.  And with those other guys, everything is "pick and pop", not pick and roll.

Colling brings a totally different dynamic to the team, because he's athletic enough to make plays around the rim.  And while Dwight was good around the rim last year, he wasn't running the pick and roll action that Collins is doing for us.

When you're tanking, you don't necessarily want to put the best grouping together, or have "too much" chemistry developing.

So until this coaching staff and organization decide that they're SERIOUS about winning games . . . 

Leave Dennis Alone.

 

You show a highlight film to show that Dennis is playing right??  OK.  Dennis plays PNR on occassions.   However, if you had more than the highlight and watched the whole game you would find that these occurances of very good passes is only momentary.   He will do one great PNR play and then he will take 2 qtrs to feed a PNR player again.   You have 6 more times where he takes the ball and tries to score before he looks to reward the roller.   That's just my point, he uses great schemes like a pick and roll to make sure he gets his shots.  On occassion, he rewards the roller but most of the time, he rewards himself... even when the roller is rolling to the lane unchecked. You see in your video, other players playing pNR with Collins and giving him the dunk... So it's a part of the game, but how many times do you see Dennis run it and give Collins the ball.  I would suggest that this video has every occassion of Dennis passing to Collins off of the PNR.  We saw the same thing with Sap last year.   Sap would be in the pick and roll and Dennis would not reward him. On occassion, Dennis would give him the pass off the roll.   That's why you saw Sap's numbers drop.   When he ran the PNR with Horf and Teague, he was rewarded to the tune of allstar, with Dennis, he looked like he was falling off.  It's his selfishness.   You've admitted before that he was selfish in an attempt to make him look great.   His selfishness will cause more losses than wins and it would benefit the team in the future to have a PG who gets it. 

[bleachkit]

You have to accept that Dennis is a scoring guard that is never going to be a guy that always makes the correct basketball play. But can you win a title with Dennis as your best player? Not in a million years. On a good team he's either your third option, or ideally, the main scoring option for the second unit.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

You show a highlight film to show that Dennis is playing right??  OK.  Dennis plays PNR on occassions.   However, if you had more than the highlight and watched the whole game you would find that these occurances of very good passes is only momentary.   He will do one great PNR play and then he will take 2 qtrs to feed a PNR player again.   You have 6 more times where he takes the ball and tries to score before he looks to reward the roller.   That's just my point, he uses great schemes like a pick and roll to make sure he gets his shots.  On occassion, he rewards the roller but most of the time, he rewards himself... even when the roller is rolling to the lane unchecked. You see in your video, other players playing pNR with Collins and giving him the dunk... So it's a part of the game, but how many times do you see Dennis run it and give Collins the ball.  I would suggest that this video has every occassion of Dennis passing to Collins off of the PNR.  We saw the same thing with Sap last year.   Sap would be in the pick and roll and Dennis would not reward him. On occassion, Dennis would give him the pass off the roll.   That's why you saw Sap's numbers drop.   When he ran the PNR with Horf and Teague, he was rewarded to the tune of allstar, with Dennis, he looked like he was falling off.  It's his selfishness.   You've admitted before that he was selfish in an attempt to make him look great.   His selfishness will cause more losses than wins and it would benefit the team in the future to have a PG who gets it. 

Dennis has assisted on 37.3% of the Hawks assisted FGs . . . which ranks 7th in the NBA.  His 6.7 assists ranks him 9th in the league.

So I'm curious.  If Dennis played exactly how you wanted him to play, what would his stats look like? 

Points - assists - turnovers - FG% - FGA?

So if he's getting 20 pts - 7 assts - 2.5 TOs - and is shooting 45% FG on 17 shots a game, what should those numbers truly look like? 

And please don't avoid answering this question.  I want to see exactly what kind of PG you want Dennis to be, from a statistical standpoint.

 

Other tidbits:

Dennis has 201 total assists for the year.  Jeff Teague has 205.

The 2nd best player that Dennis plays with, is either John Collins or Taurean Prince.

The 2nd best player that Teague plays with, is either Karl Anthony-Towns or Jimmy Butler.

Does the personnel you play with, matter?

 

As for Millsap, he was a wildly inconsistent jumpshooter last season, as well as a guy who didn't get a lot of his points off of the pick and roll.  Millsap went ISO 

 

 

I would suggest that this video has every occassion of Dennis passing to Collins off of the PNR.

That's hilarious.

Diesel, you are legitimately the all-time greatest poster on this site, whether people agree with you or not.  But if you're going to make this argument against Dennis, at least have some tangible facts to back up your claim.

This is 2017, about to be 2018.  We can look these things up to validate our positions.  You want to know who and where Dennis throws his assists to?  Fine.

 

First off, here are ALL of John Collins FGAs for the season.

https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=3&CFID=33&CFPARAMS=2017-18&PlayerID=1628381&ContextMeasure=FGA&Season=2017-18&section=player&sct=hex

One of the main things you'll see when watching this, is that EVERYBODY on the entire team is aware of Collins' athletic ability. And when he's around the rim, guys don't hesitate to get him the ball.  And one of the main guys who tries to get him the ball, is Dennis Schröder.

 

Where does most of Dennis assists come from?

https://stats.nba.com/player/203471/passes-dash/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season&PerMode=Totals&sort=AST&dir=1

 

When you see these things, what do these numbers mean to you?

As for the rest of you, please chime in as well.

 

 

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

You have to accept that Dennis is a scoring guard that is never going to be a guy that always makes the correct basketball play. But can you win a title with Dennis as your best player? Not in a million years. On a good team he's either your third option, or ideally, the main scoring option for the second unit.

I agree.  People have to accept Dennis for what he is . . . a GOOD scoring PG.

To me, the point is to develop Dennis in the interim, before we get that "special player".  Because when you look at championship level teams, you need at least 3 guys who can make big time plays.  Dennis has proven these last 2 years, that he's not only capable of making plays and having big games during the playoffs, he's also not afraid to fail in those moments.  He WANTS to be that guy, even if he doesn't have the complete skill set to be great in that role.

Here's another question to the Dennis critics.  Is there a PG currently in the NBA, that could legit turn this Hawks team into a .500 squad right now?  I bet you can only answer that question with future Hall of Fame names.  And don't say Chris Paul, because none of his teams have won anything with him being the best player on the team.

 

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Dennis has assisted on 37.3% of the Hawks assisted FGs . . . which ranks 7th in the NBA.  His 6.7 assists ranks him 9th in the league.

So I'm curious.  If Dennis played exactly how you wanted him to play, what would his stats look like? 

Points - assists - turnovers - FG% - FGA?

So if he's getting 20 pts - 7 assts - 2.5 TOs - and is shooting 45% FG on 17 shots a game, what should those numbers truly look like? 

And please don't avoid answering this question.  I want to see exactly what kind of PG you want Dennis to be, from a statistical standpoint.

 

 

 

 

 

 

First.   That stat really says that Dennis is the only passing Hawk.  I mean, who else on the team is passing?  If Dennis played Like I wanted him to, his assists and assisted FG% would go up.   More importantly...  His FG% would go up...because we would establish more offensive threats.   When teams play the Hawks, it is expected that the only scorer that they have to worry about is Dennis.  He passes, but does he get guys going?  Does he pass enough to make another guy a threat on the team?  We have become an Isoteam.  We as a team are 21 in FGA.   Here's the thing about Iso teams.. Usually they are very efficient.   When we ran IsoJoe, we were the most effecient team in the league.   The efficiency is based on, only one guy has the ball.  So Dennis being an Iso guard is going to have good looking efficiency numbers, but Heroball does not win and it does not develop players.   

Then if you want to measure him with Advanced Stats.   Player Impact... He's 84 in the league.  Then I reexamined that and he is 32nd amoung Starting Guards.   (nba.com).  What is Player Impact?  PIE measures a player's overall statistical contribution against the total statistics in games they play in.

Now let's understand this.  Dennis is our "best" player by far.   He's our top scorer and Iso player.. and He's 32nd in the league amoung starting Guards?  In fact, according to NBA.com...  Dedmon, Collins, and Bellinelli has a better PIE than Does Dennis. 

Here's the point.  Again.  Hero Ball does not win and it does not develop players.  All it does is fill stats.

 

[AHF]

How are you measuring efficiency where ISO ball is super efficient?  Low turnovers are the only area I would expect to see it as a positive.

[Peoriabird]

So Diesel loves Howard's inefficient isoball but hates Dennis' more efficient style of play!  Weird!

[Lurker]

This is ridiculous. I'll admit, even if I hate him, that Dwight Howard can still be good, if he actually wants to play in a way that helps the team. But his Charlotte tenure has pretty much shown out as what his haters have said to be true. Charlotte is letting "Dwight be Dwight" and so far he's motivated, but it's led to him still being inefficient on post ups and...what exactly for the team?

Dwight would still be good for some very good teams if he'd actually concede that he's not the guy that he used to be even if he's still very athletic. And he hasn't. 

On one hand I do think Atlanta overreacted to the Dwight year though, as I think some of what we see with Collins simply not getting post ups is coaching based. It'd be one thing if Collins was getting to post up with the other guards on the team but Dennis isn't looking to let him get post ups at all, but it's nobody on the team that is looking to let him post up. It's just what I said. Earlier. And it's very odd. 

[Diesel]

10 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

So Diesel loves Howard's inefficient isoball but hates Dennis' more efficient style of play!  Weird!

PG.. vs. C.  I have nothing to say about Dwight then or now.. he's not a Hawk so It's not relevant.  But our PG is an isoplayer.   Think about that for a while.   The guy in charge of distributing the ball and running the offense is an Iso player.   Then look at our record. 

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

  But our PG is an isoplayer.   Think about that for a while.   The guy in charge of distributing the ball and running the offense is an Iso player.   Then look at our record. 

Well... This is how you felt about another Iso point guard.

 

I don't know what Irving wants.   Qurpilo says he wants to win now.. if that's the case, he should stay in Cleveland.   I think Irving wants his own team.  He can have that here.  We would certainly build around his strength but the trade proposed doesn't seem like it would work.   I mean... salarywise.. sure.. but why would Phoenix do it?  I think it's just a whole lot of mulling around for pundits who have access to salary sheets.   

In terms of our team with Irving.  We'd build around him which means that we'd go out and get players that complimented his skillset.   What's that look like?  I don't know... but it would take a plan to keep him here. 

Let's say the deal is Shro and 2 1st round picks... and we get Irving.  

After a year.. who is to say that we don't look to trade Irving if we feel like he won't resign?  At the end of his first year, I'd offer him an extension and if he didn't take it, he'd be traded and I would try to get picks for him.   Here's the thing... in the time that we have him... he will make season ticket holders happy.   The team we build around him would look better than if it were just Schro.   He's a name... and he's been to the finals and won it. 

In all actuality, Irving would be the biggest star that we have ever brought in through trade or  FAcy,

 

Think about the stars we have brought in through trade or FAcy:

Nique, Deke, Joe Johnson, Shareef,  Sap...  

when you think about all those guys.

• None were the #1 pick overall. 
• None had won an NBA Championship. 
• None were only 25 years old. 

IF this were to happen, this would be the biggest acquisition in Franchise History.  If I'm Schlenk.. this is how I'm selling it and the fans should eat it up. 

So why the excitement over one Iso point guard and criticism for another with a similar approach?