The Tank Thread

[KB21]

13 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

Yeah, let's forget the original false premise that no elite caliber players have been drafted in the lottery since 2007.  Steph Curry doesn't have two championships and Kyrie Irving doesn't have one either.  Nope.

Your definition of elite is loose at best.  From where I'm sitting, there are only 2 elite players in the entire NBA.  LeBron James and Kevin Durant.  Everyone else is a level below them.

[DBac]

Curry is absolutely on the level of KD.

[nathan2331]

...and tell me, how many playoff wins have John Wall, Anthony Davis, Joel Embiid, Ben Simmons, KAT, and Porzingis combined to have?

You don't make any sense. Those guys are stars, and routinely whoop our ass whenever we play them. Their respective teams might not be that great, but don't act like they aren't much better (or have the potential) to be better than any single player we've had since Nique.

 

I've tried showing you how we could potentially build a team around our next draft pick, but you think resigning Millsap would have been better, when our previous team had no chance of doing anything.

[KB21]

32 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

You don't make any sense. Those guys are stars, and routinely whoop our ass whenever we play them. Their respective teams might not be that great, but don't act like they aren't much better (or have the potential) to be better than any single player we've had since Nique.

 

I've tried showing you how we could potentially build a team around our next draft pick, but you think resigning Millsap would have been better, when our previous team had no chance of doing anything.

You think some damn underdeveloped rookie is going to give this team a better chance than Paul Millsap.  That's how warped the tanking view is.  It's going to be three f***ing years before the 2018 draft pick will even be able to play winning basketball.  And then guess what?  You are still losing, because it's going to be just as long for the 2019 top 3 pick to play winning basketball....and the 2020 lottery pick....etc.  There's a better chance that Prince/Collins/2018 draft pick will leave via free agency before this team is competitive again than there is of the Hawks actually building a championship team through the draft within the next 4 years.

[nathan2331]

 

 

 

 

 

You think some damn underdeveloped rookie is going to give this team a better chance than Paul Millsap.  That's how warped the tanking view is.  It's going to be three f***ing years before the 2018 draft pick will even be able to play winning basketball.  And then guess what?  You are still losing, because it's going to be just as long for the 2019 top 3 pick to play winning basketball....and the 2020 lottery pick....etc.  There's a better chance that Prince/Collins/2018 draft pick will leave via free agency before this team is competitive again than there is of the Hawks actually building a championship team through the draft within the next 4 years.

 

 

 

 

First of all, you keep ignoring the reality that resigning Millsap wouldn't make us a contender. We'd be a 6-8 seed which, as Hawks fans we should know better than anyone, is a waste of time. This tank might take a while, or we might turn it around in two seasons. What I am confident in is that by the end of it we'll be in a much better place.

 

 

There are multiple guys in this draft who could become franchise players. You can hate the process and shit on the odds, but you can't hate on the potential some of these prospects possess. A guy like Ayton or Bagley could come in the NBA and be better than Millsap, that could very well happen. Collins isn't that far from Millsap right now and he doesn't have all the tools the other two do.

 

 

So yeah, unless you want to explain how giving Millsap 30 mil brings us closer to contending rather than a first round exit, please feel free to explain.

 

 

[KB21]

1 minute ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

First of all, you keep ignoring the reality that resigning Millsap wouldn't make us a contender. We'd be a 6-8 seed which as Hawks fans we should know better than anyone is a waste of time. This tank might take a while, or we might turn it around in two seasons. What I am confident in is that by the end of it we'll be in a much better place.

 

There are multiple guys in this draft who could become franchise players. You can hate the process and shit on the odds, but you can't hate on the potential some of these prospects possess. A guy like Ayton or Bagley could come in the NBA and be better than Millsap, that could very well happen. Collins isn't that far from Millsap right now and he doesn't have all the tools the other two do.

 

So yeah, unless you want to explain how giving Millsap 30 mil brings us closer to contending rather than a first round exit, please feel free to explain.

It's obvious how it brings you closer to contending than tanking does.  If you resign Millsap, you are in the playoffs, therefore you have a chance.  When you tank, you are not in the playoffs and will not be in the playoffs anytime soon.

Collins isn't anywhere close to Paul Millsap right now and will likely never be as good because he will never be one of the best defenders in the NBA like Paul is.  Paul is also the best mid post offensive player in the NBA.  Collins would have benefitted from playing behind Paul for the next 2 years had the team resigned him like they should have.  

Marvin Bagley also isn't anywhere near Paul Millsap either.  He's a great athlete, but so is Andrew Wiggins.  Being a great athlete doesn't make you a great basketball player.  You have to have a skill level that Bagley doesn't have to be a great basketball player.

 

[noble]

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

It's obvious how it brings you closer to contending than tanking does.  If you resign Millsap, you are in the playoffs, therefore you have a chance.  When you tank, you are not in the playoffs and will not be in the playoffs anytime soon.

Collins isn't anywhere close to Paul Millsap right now and will likely never be as good because he will never be one of the best defenders in the NBA like Paul is.  Paul is also the best mid post offensive player in the NBA.  Collins would have benefitted from playing behind Paul for the next 2 years had the team resigned him like they should have.  

Marvin Bagley also isn't anywhere near Paul Millsap either.  He's a great athlete, but so is Andrew Wiggins.  Being a great athlete doesn't make you a great basketball player.  You have to have a skill level that Bagley doesn't have to be a great basketball player.

 

This first few sentences is where we all differ. You think being in the playoffs we had a shot. Many of us knew that even though we made the playoffs we didn't have a chance. Without that one player who can carry the team when needed, the chances are zero beating the teams that do. As we saw against the Cavs.

[KB21]

18 minutes ago, noble said:

This first few sentences is where we all differ. You think being in the playoffs we had a shot. Many of us knew that even though we made the playoffs we didn't have a chance. Without that one player who can carry the team when needed, the chances are zero beating the teams that do. As we saw against the Cavs.

Somewhere else where we differ is this.  You think it is acceptable to intentionally structure your roster to lose games, and the entire premise behind doing so is because you don't believe you can win in the playoffs as structured.

So, do you find it acceptable for your children to quit in sports when they don't feel they can "win a championship?"  Because that is what you are finding acceptable here.  The Hawks management has quit trying to win games because of this false perception that making the playoffs isn't an achievement.  There are about 7 teams that have been picking in the lottery for 4 plus years that would give anything to be back in the playoffs right now.

[nathan2331]

 

 

 

 

 

Somewhere else where we differ is this.  You think it is acceptable to intentionally structure your roster to lose games, and the entire premise behind doing so is because you don't believe you can win in the playoffs as structured.

 

So, do you find it acceptable for your children to quit in sports when they don't feel they can "win a championship?"  Because that is what you are finding acceptable here.  The Hawks management has quit trying to win games because of this false perception that making the playoffs isn't an achievement.  There are about 7 teams that have been picking in the lottery for 4 plus years that would give anything to be back in the playoffs right now.

 

 

 

 

I don't have children, but I wouldn't tell them to just quit sports or anything else in life, because it's not just about winning, its about improving and becoming the best version of yourself, even if other kids are better in comparison.

 

 

The Hawks are not my child. Every season we don't win a championship, we failed. That's not to say positive things can't happen along the way, but we failed to meet the ultimate goal. So instead of going back to the playoffs when I know we're not a contender, I'd rather rebuild even if that means losing some games to potentially draft a future franchise player.

 

 

[KB21]

7 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't have children, but I wouldn't tell them to just quit sports or anything else in life, because it's not just about winning, its about improving and becoming the best version of yourself, even if other kids are better in comparison.

 

 

 

 

The Hawks are not my child. Every season we don't win a championship, we failed. That's not to say positive things can't happen along the way, but we failed to meet the ultimate goal. So instead of going back to the playoffs when I know we're not a contender, I'd rather rebuild even if that means losing some games to potentially draft a future franchise player.

 

 

Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig.  What the Hawks are doing is not rebuilding or retooling or resetting.  What they are doing is tanking.  They haven't made moves with the thought that they would take a small step backwards to rebuild.  They intentionally structured the roster to lose as many games as possible.  

[nathan2331]

Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig.  What the Hawks are doing is not rebuilding or retooling or resetting.  What they are doing is tanking.  They haven't made moves with the thought that they would take a small step backwards to rebuild.  They intentionally structured the roster to lose as many games as possible.  

We've got three players that could start on a winning team in the future along with some quality bench pieces. When healthy we weren't getting blown out every night. It took Dedmon and Collins going down to cement us as the worst team in the NBA.

 

We're trash because we've only got one starter who can create offense for themselves and the majority of the team are newcomers who haven't had much time to learn anything. That's ok, we've actually somewhat competed this season. If we fill SG and C with some quality, the whole dynamic changes. Bazemore off the bench as a spark plug is probably his most effective role, and I can't think of many other bench bigs I'd take over Dedmon.

 

With the other players we have we're a playoff team in the East, easily. The Knicks are #8 currently and they aren't that much better than us.

[KB21]

1 hour ago, nathan2331 said:

We've got three players that could start on a winning team in the future along with some quality bench pieces. When healthy we weren't getting blown out every night. It took Dedmon and Collins going down to cement us as the worst team in the NBA.

 

We're trash because we've only got one starter who can create offense for themselves and the majority of the team are newcomers who haven't had much time to learn anything. That's ok, we've actually somewhat competed this season. If we fill SG and C with some quality, the whole dynamic changes. Bazemore off the bench as a spark plug is probably his most effective role, and I can't think of many other bench bigs I'd take over Dedmon.

 

With the other players we have we're a playoff team in the East, easily. The Knicks are #8 currently and they aren't that much better than us.

This team has only 1-2 guys who might be contributors on this team when it is good again.  Dennis is not one of them.  

If this team had 3 starting caliber players going forward, they wouldn't be the worst team in the NBA by far.  

[High5]

17 hours ago, KB21 said:

If you resign Millsap, you are in the playoffs, therefore you have a chance.

For a guy who constantly says tankers are unrealistic, this is the most naive view in the entire thread. The NBA isn't a Disney movie. 

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, High5 said:

For a guy who constantly says tankers are unrealistic, this is the most naive view in the entire thread. The NBA isn't a Disney movie. 

No, but it is a league where veteran teams win and young teams lose.

[hazer]

18 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

You don't make any sense. Those guys are stars, and routinely whoop our ass whenever we play them. Their respective teams might not be that great, but don't act like they aren't much better (or have the potential) to be better than any single player we've had since Nique.

 

I've tried showing you how we could potentially build a team around our next draft pick, but you think resigning Millsap would have been better, when our previous team had no chance of doing anything.

You’re wasting your time. Just put him on ignore like I did...

[hazer]

13 hours ago, noble said:

This first few sentences is where we all differ. You think being in the playoffs we had a shot. Many of us knew that even though we made the playoffs we didn't have a chance. Without that one player who can carry the team when needed, the chances are zero beating the teams that do. As we saw against the Cavs.

Bingo. Absolute pretenders. Embarrassing. It’s why no one respected the Hawks. Glad they threw that pretender $hit in the trash. Nucking futz that anyone is arguing to continue that pretention.

[Lurker]

Saying the Hawks are in the playoffs if Millsap is on the team, is the Disney'iest of all Disney views, and shows that you skipped out on watching most of last season, especially when he was hurt and his injury isn't an accident, it's an old age one that likely happens no matter where he is, whether it's here or playing on the moon.

What does he do to change anything? Use veteran knowledge to help rally a mostly young team?

silliness

[hazer]

Forest, trees, a particular someone should look into it...

[hazer]

Just now, hazer said:

Forest, trees, a particular someone should look into it...

The “forest” being a better structured team better able to make deeper runs in the long term. The “trees” being resigning an aging Millsap (prone to injury who limits the teams future ceiling) and being satisfied just to be a pretender in the playoffs. The trees right in front of your face (Millsap, playoffs just for playoffs sake) block your vision of the bigger picture, the forest (a younger, healthier, more talented team capable of deeper postseason runs thus attracting better trades/FAs). What. Is. So. Difficult. To. Comprehend?

[KB21]

10 minutes ago, hazer said:

The “forest” being a better structured team better able to make deeper runs in the long term. The “trees” being resigning an aging Millsap (prone to injury who limits the teams future ceiling) and being satisfied just to be a pretender in the playoffs. The trees right in front of your face (Millsap, playoffs just for playoffs sake) block your vision of the bigger picture, the forest (a younger, healthier, more talented team capable of deeper postseason runs thus attracting better trades/FAs). What. Is. So. Difficult. To. Comprehend?

Yep.  The Hawks believed the same BS back in 2003, yet the best moves they made to build the team was when Danny Ferry rebuilt around the acquisitions of Paul Millsap, DeMarre Carroll, and Kyle Korver, which laid the foundation for a 60 win team and a visit to the Eastern Conference Finals.  

Now they want to go through 2003 again.  

What you pro tankers fail to see is all the losing that is about to besiege this organization and how that is going to adversely effect what they want to build.  

Like I have said, this team won't sniff the playoffs for 5 years, but you pro tankers will have your precious overhyped, overvalued, underdeveloped, underachieving lottery picks.  You will also have A LOT OF LOSING!