The Tank Thread

[davis171]

12 minutes ago, Diesel said:

To answer your question... NO.  We've always been more into our players who play well than building.   There are several trades like the one you proposed that we passed up because we were so into our players.   So many times, we could have traded Smoove while he had value or Sap when he had value but we elected to keep the talent.   That's the Hawks. 

Also, I'm glad that you mentioned OKC.  They went to the lottery a few times.   Came away with Westbrook, Harden, and KD... three likely League MVPs after this year.  No rings.   No team.  Now, OKC is clawing for scraps.   After this season, they may not have anything left in OKC.  This is the case more often than not. 

My contention is get something from this players even if they are over 30.   Get something.   

So um what has Schlenk done to make you think he wouldn't have pulled the trigger from what I've heard he is a pretty blunt guy. You can't really fault a move he has made yet imo I feel most GMs would have made the same move.

Edited March 5, 2018 by davis171

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, DBac said:

Why bring up Brooklyn as a perennial lottery team? They don’t even get to pick there. I’m confused. 

 

 

Irrelevant, you're right.  However, what about the others?  Perennial lottery teams are just ignored and we're quick to look at a championship team without really taking the time to understand the Blueprint and all the impossible things that had to go right for that blueprint to work.   We just believe that if we get a lottery pick like they did, we're going to win a championship or get close.   There are too many teams that have gotten high lottery picks that will tell you... it's impossible. 

[AHF]

50 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Wider in comparison to what??  FAcy?  What exactly is your comparison?

IF it's FAcy, It's a losing cause.   FAcy helped put every Championship team in Championship Contention.   Remember, for as great as Steph has been, in the 2 times that his team has won the finals, it was a FA that was named Finals MVP.. Not Steph or Klay. 

Take our history.  For 5 straight times, we made Lottery picks.   But our best team came from a collection of FAs  Sap, DMC, and a trade for Korver.   Our best team was built from concept not blindly hoping that we can find a great player or collection of players that will help lift us. 

 

In comparison to teams that try to build without dipping into the lottery like some people here want.

Our best team didn't cut the mustard.  We spent a lot of years building through trades and FA.  Didn't ever win a game outside of the first and second round of the playoffs.

 

[KB21]

The 1981-1982 San Diego Clippers were 17-65.   It was 10 years before they made the playoffs.

The 1991-1992 Washington Bullets were 25-57.  Over the next 13 years, they made the playoffs once.

The 2000-2001 Atlanta Hawks were 25-57.  It took 8 years to make the playoffs, 9 if you count the 28 wins they had in 1999-2000.

The 2008-2009 Sacramento Kings were 17-65.  In the subsequent 10 years, they have not made the playoffs.

The 2012-2013 Orlando Magic were 20-62.  They haven't made the playoffs in 6 years.

There are a lot more examples

[thecampster]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The 1981-1982 San Diego Clippers were 17-65.   It was 10 years before they made the playoffs.

The 1991-1992 Washington Bullets were 25-57.  Over the next 13 years, they made the playoffs once.

The 2000-2001 Atlanta Hawks were 25-57.  It took 8 years to make the playoffs, 9 if you count the 28 wins they had in 1999-2000.

The 2008-2009 Sacramento Kings were 17-65.  In the subsequent 10 years, they have not made the playoffs.

The 2012-2013 Orlando Magic were 20-62.  They haven't made the playoffs in 6 years.

There are a lot more examples

I believe KB now has scoreboard.

[Diesel]

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

In comparison to teams that try to build without dipping into the lottery like some people here want.

Our best team didn't cut the mustard.  We spent a lot of years building through trades and FA.  Didn't ever win a game outside of the first and second round of the playoffs.

 

That team didn't cut the mustard because of Korver and DMC getting hurt.   However, they did get us farther than any other team has ever gotten us.   We've tried this lottery push before.. or do you not remember.   All it did was set us up ultimately for some respect.   Getting those FAs that won 60 put us on the map with both FAs and teams.    Now you say, let's go back to guess work that doesn't work instead of building a team.

OK.

[KB21]

Here are my Hawks Centric ratings for the lottery prospects:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T3CNrJUVKRvhmnwDsGrxIKIiojTSOjloUE3Vutz_e_g/edit?usp=sharing

[davis171]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

That team didn't cut the mustard because of Korver and DMC getting hurt.   However, they did get us farther than any other team has ever gotten us.   We've tried this lottery push before.. or do you not remember.   All it did was set us up ultimately for some respect.   Getting those FAs that won 60 put us on the map with both FAs and teams.    Now you say, let's go back to guess work that doesn't work instead of building a team.

OK.

Are you kidding me Irving Love > Korver DMC that team stood 0 chance of winning a single game against the Cavs even at full health! Al horford had a 1 rebound game and made Tristan Thompson look like freaking Dennis Rodman. I've told you the hawks have had plenty of chances they blew it thats what has put us here not Schlenk.

Edited March 5, 2018 by davis171

[Plainview1981]

33 minutes ago, davis171 said:

Are you kidding me Irving Love > Korver DMC that team stood 0 chance of winning a single game against the Cavs even at full health! Al horford had a 1 rebound game and made Tristan Thompson look like freaking Dennis Rodman. I've told you the hawks have had plenty of chances they blew it thats what has put us here not Schlenk.

Yeah, the idea that Korver and DMC was going to make a difference is fantasyland thinking.

[davis171]

20 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

Yeah, the idea that Korver and DMC was going to make a difference is fantasyland thinking.

I do think they would. I just think Kyrie Irving who averaged 25+ ppg against the warriors and a walking double double in Kevin Love (amplified against a rebounding deficient hawks team) who were also out mean more than Korver and DMC no matter how your team is built. They beat us to death without 2 consistent all stars. Even with them out and Korver and DMC playing deep down do you really think Lebron would have lost any sleep thinking about the Atlanta Hawks in 2015-16 lol.

Edited March 5, 2018 by davis171

[Plainview1981]

1 minute ago, davis171 said:

I do think they would. I just think Kyrie Irving who averaged 25+ ppg against the warriors and a walking double double in Kevin Love (amplified against a rebounding deficient hawks team) who were also out mean more than Korver and DMC no matter how your team is built.  

They would have made no real difference. These where parts of a system that had no greatness to it.  I know that sounds simplified, but that's how it was.  Korver wasn't even known as a big time playoff performer. I can't believe some folks are still clinging to the idea that the 60 win team was good health away from going to the finals. 

[Lurker]

The folks that thought the Cavs seriously were better without Kyrie/Love already got proven wrong. I chomped down my crow on it when the Cavs were crowned champions two seasons ago.

[Peoriabird]

Why are we still arguing this issue???  We are 18 games away from completing this painful season with chance of securing a very good player possibly great player from this up coming draft.  Could we have won more games with roster we had entering the season?  Absolutely!!!  We Probably could have won 10 more games if this roster was managed to win games i.e. more Dedmon and Collins and less Plumlee and Babbitt etc...so comparing this team with perennial lottery teams of the past isn't exactly an accurate comparison in my opinion.  Let this thing play out and if we are not back to 35-40 wins next year, then you boo birds can make it rain 24/7 in 2018/19!

[Plainview1981]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why are we still arguing this issue???  We are 18 games away from completing this painful season with chance of securing a very good player possibly great player from this up coming draft.  Could we have won more games with roster we had entering the season?  Absolutely!!!  We Probably could have won 10 more games if this roster was managed to win games i.e. more Dedmon and Collins and less Plumlee and Babbitt etc...so comparing this team with perennial lottery teams of the past isn't exactly an accurate comparison in my opinion.  Let this thing play out and if we are not back to 35-40 wins next year, then you boo birds can make it rain 24/7 in 2018/19!

Well, I've only watched about 25 minutes of basketball this season. I stop by here to read every now and then and it still bugs me that people think that team a few years ago could have won that series. It wasn't going to happen.

[KB21]

43 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why are we still arguing this issue???  We are 18 games away from completing this painful season with chance of securing a very good player possibly great player from this up coming draft.  Could we have won more games with roster we had entering the season?  Absolutely!!!  We Probably could have won 10 more games if this roster was managed to win games i.e. more Dedmon and Collins and less Plumlee and Babbitt etc...so comparing this team with perennial lottery teams of the past isn't exactly an accurate comparison in my opinion.  Let this thing play out and if we are not back to 35-40 wins next year, then you boo birds can make it rain 24/7 in 2018/19!

It's still being argued because Travis Schlenk intentionally put together a shitty roster with the goal of losing as many games as humanly possible, and only Mike Budenholzer's greatness has kept this team from truly bottoming out.  This is the least talented team in the NBA.  There are maybe 2 players on the entire roster that will actually be on the team when it will be a playoff team 8-10 years from now.

[davis171]

16 minutes ago, KB21 said:

It's still being argued because Travis Schlenk intentionally put together a shitty roster with the goal of losing as many games as humanly possible, and only Mike Budenholzer's greatness has kept this team from truly bottoming out.  This is the least talented team in the NBA.  There are maybe 2 players on the entire roster that will actually be on the team when it will be a playoff team 8-10 years from now.

How many players are on the same team for 8-10 years now regardless lol.

[jy23]

If someone can show me a championship team that wasn’t built with players that came from the lottery (besides 04 pistons) I’ll gladly continue to have this conversation...but if not y’all are truly arguing for the sake of arguing. 

The fact that some teams try this and still end up being bad is irrelevant if every team that ever wins does so with players from the lottery...line why are we even talking about this? You’re basically saying we COULD still not win...true. But it’s GUARANTEED we won’t win if we don’t have these kinds of players. I’m so confused on the logic being used here 

[KB21]

8 minutes ago, jy23 said:

If someone can show me a championship team that wasn’t built with players that came from the lottery (besides 04 pistons) I’ll gladly continue to have this conversation...but if not y’all are truly arguing for the sake of arguing. 

The fact that some teams try this and still end up being bad is irrelevant if every team that ever wins does so with players from the lottery...line why are we even talking about this? You’re basically saying we COULD still not win...true. But it’s GUARANTEED we won’t win if we don’t have these kinds of players. I’m so confused on the logic being used here 

The only thing that is guaranteed with the route Travis Schlenk has chosen is losing.  When you do this, you allow a losing culture to infect the organization, and this is what is so difficult to overcome.  Like my signature says, by tanking, you may get a good player, but you will more than likely be tanking again before you ever compete for a championship.

[jy23]

The only thing that is guaranteed by never getting lottery players is never winning a championship. That’s guaranteed. Like I said you can scoff at it all you want but it’s how championships are won. Does it make losers as well? Yes. Now does not ever acquiring lottery players win you a championship? No, it doesn’t. So basically you’re saying you’d rather not have a chance to win a title bc you hate the process that it takes to get there. You’d rather be ok and never really have a chance bc it looks better. 

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, jy23 said:

The only thing that is guaranteed by never getting lottery players is never winning a championship. That’s guaranteed. Like I said you can scoff at it all you want but it’s how championships are won. Does it make losers as well? Yes. Now does not ever acquiring lottery players win you a championship? No, it doesn’t. So basically you’re saying you’d rather not have a chance to win a title bc you hate the process that it takes to get there. You’d rather be ok and never really have a chance bc it looks better. 

Losing is not how you build a championship team.