The Tank Thread

[davis171]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

2011 Dallas Mavericks.   Won the championship. 

Dirk is a top 50 player all time imo top 30 I don't buy that he is way more than an all star he is a former MVP!

Edited March 14, 2018 by davis171

[davis171]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

The reset shouldn't be get rid of all the players and start over.   The reset should have been change the decision makers. 

Back to this idea.   If the only team in basketball history that ever win a championship through tanking (the warriors) tanked to get Harrison Barnes.   Then you can't make me believe that tanking gets you players that lead you to championships.   I have asked the question a few times with no answer.   What makes anybody here believe that we will miss the mediocre treadmill that tanking brings?

 

So I've asked multiple times how do you improve the team with no cap space and your dream 15th pick?

[davis171]

15 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So, out of all these years and top 5 picks, you have come up with one example that wasn’t even in the one and done era.  And Wade wasn’t the best player on any of those championship teams.  

He was finals MVP just like Iggy was!

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, davis171 said:

He was finals MVP just like Iggy was!

So. 

In both instances the MVP was a secondary player on the team. 

[DBac]

The Nuggets have really sucked since Sap got back. They're probably gonna miss the playoffs. I like the Nuggets too. Like Will the Thrill, Murray, Harris, Jokic and Juancho (and Sap too ofc).

 

They've gotta be kicking themselves for that Plumlee extension.

[CBAreject]

Last night’s loss was clutch.  We had a double-digit halftime lead and dismantled it in short order with just a few minutes of the third quarter.  Losses like that show this team’s mettle.  It will take a few more to finish what we started, but we can see the light at the end of the tank tunnel now.  Do it hawks! 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, davis171 said:

Dirk is a top 50 player all time imo top 30 I don't buy that he is way more than an all star he is a former MVP!

Was he top 50 in 2011?

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, davis171 said:

So I've asked multiple times how do you improve the team with no cap space and your dream 15th pick?

Let's go with your scenerio for a moment.  

Let's say that we did resign Sap to the same deal he got from Denver and  Let THJr walk.   Sap gets injjured in the season and miss 2/3rd of the season.   We're still this bad and now we have Sap coming back next year with 2 years left on his deal.   Moreover, Collins can develop under good tutoring.   Sap becomes a player that we can flip in his latter days because his contract will mean more to teams that are over the cap.   Same for D8... and we got good picks coming. 

The problem with our team is that we don't focus on getting the draft right.   We haven't done so yet.  Maybe Collins is a keper... but our track record up until now has sucked. 

So here's the question in response...  DO you think Collins & Prince are developing NOW?

 

[KB21]

50 minutes ago, CBAreject said:

Last night’s loss was clutch.  We had a double-digit halftime lead and dismantled it in short order with just a few minutes of the third quarter.  Losses like that show this team’s mettle.  It will take a few more to finish what we started, but we can see the light at the end of the tank tunnel now.  Do it hawks! 

Yeah.  The light on the train of endless losing seasons.  

[Diesel]

All this talk about tanking to a championship is straight B.S. 

There are 2 championship teams mentioned when people talk about tanking.

1.  Spurs.  People say that the Spurs tanked.   However, they were just a victim of injury.   In fact, during the season, the Captain David Robinson came back for 6 games and guess what, they played him and won with him... He stopped playing because he then broke his foot.   Had he not broken his foot, he would have continue to play.  Moreover, Their lottery ball defied great odds to get them the #1 pick. 

 

2.  Golden State.  Schlenk is one of the architechs of the GS tank.  But how did they tank?   Schlenk thinks that their tanking was trading Monta Ellis for Bogut.  OK.  The other thing is that Steph was injured with his surgically repaired ankle.   This was a legitimate injury.    So overall, they tanked for:  Harrison Barnes!!!

In all honesty, Barnes probably inputed the least to their championship.  I mean, Iggy, Steph, Klay, Green, Bogut Livingston.... then Barnes.  Hell, I almost put Spheights and Barbosa ahead of him. 

So tanking does not yield championships.  

AHF Deletion of Reference to Removed Post

[davis171]

26 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Let's go with your scenerio for a moment.  

Let's say that we did resign Sap to the same deal he got from Denver and  Let THJr walk.   Sap gets injjured in the season and miss 2/3rd of the season.   We're still this bad and now we have Sap coming back next year with 2 years left on his deal.   Moreover, Collins can develop under good tutoring.   Sap becomes a player that we can flip in his latter days because his contract will mean more to teams that are over the cap.   Same for D8... and we got good picks coming. 

The problem with our team is that we don't focus on getting the draft right.   We haven't done so yet.  Maybe Collins is a keper... but our track record up until now has sucked. 

So here's the question in response...  DO you think Collins & Prince are developing NOW?

 

No one is trading for Sap on a 30 million deal coming off injury lmao. Yes I do Prince dropped a career high 2 games ago. All Collins has done since getting to ATL is improve.

Edited March 14, 2018 by davis171

[davis171]

38 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Was he top 50 in 2011?

He was averaging 23 ppg on 51% shooting the best of his career! if Sap had won an MVP and lead us to an NBA final that was riged hell yeah lets keep him around.

Edited March 14, 2018 by davis171

[AHF]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

So, out of all these years and top 5 picks, you have come up with one example that wasn’t even in the one and done era.  And Wade wasn’t the best player on any of those championship teams.  

Some times I just shake my head.  You think Shaq was better than Wade that year?  

Dwyane Wade vs. Shaq  2006 Playoffs

26.9 PER >> 19.9 PER

4.8 Win Shares >>> 1.6 Win Shares

28.4 points per game >>> 18.4 points per game

.593 TS% > .571 TS%

5.9 rebounds per game << 9.8 rebounds per game

5.7 assists per game >>> 1.7 assists per game

2.2 steals per game >> 0.5 steals per game

1.1 blocks per game < 1.5 blocks per game

 

I am glad you are a doctor because I am super concerned that you may have done some serious injury to yourself stretching this hard.

You honestly cannot believe this.

[CBAreject]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Some times I just shake my head.  You think Shaq was better than Wade that year?  

Dwyane Wade vs. Shaq  2006 Playoffs

26.9 PER >> 19.9 PER

4.8 Win Shares >>> 1.6 Win Shares

28.4 points per game >>> 18.4 points per game

.593 TS% > .571 TS%

5.9 rebounds per game << 9.8 rebounds per game

5.7 assists per game >>> 1.7 assists per game

2.2 steals per game >> 0.5 steals per game

1.1 blocks per game < 1.5 blocks per game

 

I am glad you are a doctor because I am super concerned that you may have done some serious injury to yourself stretching this hard.

You honestly cannot believe this.

Cognitive dissonance is the impetus to activate a panoply of primitive defense mechanisms, namely denial.

KB simply cannot allow you to be right or else it would undercut his basic assumptions about the world:

1) tanking doesn’t work

2) having an old, mediocre, and expensive roster puts you on the path to the Finals

3) KB is intelligent and this issue is black-and-white, cut-and-dried.

I accept partial blame because we did not force KB to define what “works” meant a priori.  As a result, he is able to apply different standards to tanking and not tanking, such that the same outcome (say 45 wins) can be used to argue that one “works” while the other “doesn’t work”.  Mea culpa.  

[Royjr9]

5 hours ago, DBac said:

The Nuggets have really sucked since Sap got back. They're probably gonna miss the playoffs. I like the Nuggets too. Like Will the Thrill, Murray, Harris, Jokic and Juancho (and Sap too ofc).

 

They've gotta be kicking themselves for that Plumlee extension.

They are approaching cap hell. Jokic will enter restricted free agency and if I got cash. I might shoot for the moon with him.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, CBAreject said:

Cognitive dissonance is the impetus to activate a panoply of primitive defense mechanisms, namely denial.

KB simply cannot allow you to be right or else it would undercut his basic assumptions about the world:

1) tanking doesn’t work

2) having an old, mediocre, and expensive roster puts you on the path to the Finals

3) KB is intelligent and this issue is black-and-white, cut-and-dried.

I accept partial blame because we did not force KB to define what “works” meant a priori.  As a result, he is able to apply different standards to tanking and not tanking, such that the same outcome (say 45 wins) can be used to argue that one “works” while the other “doesn’t work”.  Mea culpa.  

KB is a smart guy and I don't mind the rejection of building through the lottery as a matter of principal.  The idea that teams should never tear down or try to lose is a nice aspiration.  Just seems to put him on tilt sometimes where he says things that make me scratch my head.

[Lurker]

35 minutes ago, AHF said:

KB is a smart guy and I don't mind the rejection of building through the lottery as a matter of principal.  The idea that teams should never tear down or try to lose is a nice aspiration.  Just seems to put him on tilt sometimes where he says things that make me scratch my head.

And only happens in that happy world called Heaven. Becoming bad is really hard to avoid, if you think of sports as a cycle. Eventually, unless you are that smart team that plans for it, a team is going to get older...the players are going to fall off from their peak, and the team is slowly going to worsen... Even then, it's very difficult to avoid it.

Best way to avoid it is to just do the Oakland Athletics mentality of old and have constant turnover. 

Really, that's what happened with the Mavs. They are all out tanking now, but they slowly worsened before then.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Lurker

[Watchman]

22 hours ago, hazer said:

Lots of us have been around awhile and seen a similar movie. This remake has a better producer and director, however...

Opinions vary.

[davis171]

16 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Opinions vary.

What moves would you have made to improve your over the cap 8 seed (maybe but I'll give it to you) Atlanta Hawks? it is a serious question I'm curious about.

Edited March 14, 2018 by davis171

[Watchman]

7 minutes ago, davis171 said:

What moves would you have made to improve your over the cap 8 seed (maybe but I'll give it to you) Atlanta Hawks? it is a serious question I'm curious about.

I never suggested that we would be a playoff team.  We could have played out Dwight's contract and resigned Millsap, or at least offered.  If he walks, he walks. In time we could rebuild.  I would have attempted to trade Schröder, because you don't need a point guard who refuses to pass to one of his teammates. 

Losing on purpose is pathetic, and shows a complete lack of competence on the part of the GM.  Some sports will kick you out of the league for throwing games.  The NBA should be no different.  Any way you look at it, we are throwing games.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Watchman