Next Bud rumor: New York Knicks

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Are you sure Phoenix didn't fly him out? 

Can't find the quote but I did find this tidbit

Berman brings word that Budenholzer “is genuinely interested” in the Knicks opening and he cites an NBA source indicating that “New York is his top choice” at this stage. Of course, it is worth pointing out that this comes from only one outlet at this juncture but it goes on to say that Budenholzer would “say yes” if offered New York’s position.

Much of the speculation stems from rumblings already present considering Budenholzer’s apparent opposition to Atlanta’s rebuild and the organization’s willingness to allow him to walk away if the situation presents itself. The Post reports that Budenholzer “appears so disillusioned” with Atlanta’s current organizational direction and, on the flip side, the Hawks have skepticism that going through their potentially lengthy rebuild with Budenholzer at the helm is the right decision.

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/4/23/17270134/mike-budenholzer-new-york-knicks-head-coach-atlanta-hawks-genuine-interest-report-compensation

[KB21]

The ultimate person to blame for all of this is Michael Gearon Jr.  He's the one that got upset because Danny Ferry wasn't consulting him on roster decisions, and he's the one that spearheaded Ferry's ousting at GM.  If it weren't for that, we would still have Danny Ferry as the GM with Bud as the head coach, and we would be in a much better, non-tanking position now.  It's a shame that Michael Gearon Jr. is the most at fault for the Hawks losing both the best GM they have ever had and the best head coach they have ever had.

[NBASupes]

I talk to my contact within the organization and he said there is nothing to worry about on Buds front. Atlanta is asking for a lot in terms of draft compensation and teams are balking at the asking price. 

As for Bud stance with NY, Idk, I haven't spoken to him since Friday. But i won't take it more seriously. If a team starts coming to the table with legit draft compensation offers. Atlanta will listen. So far, no one has done that. PHX didnt even make an offer due to that.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I talk to my contact within the organization and he said there is nothing to worry about on Buds front. Atlanta is asking for a lot in terms of draft compensation and teams are balking at the asking price. 

As for Bud stance with NY, Idk, I haven't spoken to him since Friday. But i won't take it more seriously. If a team starts coming to the table with legit draft compensation offers. Atlanta will listen. So far, no one has done that. PHX didnt even make an offer due to that.

Then the solution is simple.  Give Bud an extension and a pay raise that ensures all the losing this team is going to suffer over the next several years doesn't affect his status as head coach.

My guess is, that sleazeball Schlenk wants Bud to absorb the losses so "his" choice at head coach doesn't have to.

[parfait]

19 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Then the solution is simple.  Give Bud an extension and a pay raise that ensures all the losing this team is going to suffer over the next several years doesn't affect his status as head coach.

My guess is, that sleazeball Schlenk wants Bud to absorb the losses so "his" choice at head coach doesn't have to.

Here we can agree. An extension for Bud would be the optimum result from all of this.

But, now Schlenk is a "sleazeball?" Come on, man, did the guy sell you some hair tonic that turned your scalp into his?

[parfait]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

The ultimate person to blame for all of this is Michael Gearon Jr.  He's the one that got upset because Danny Ferry wasn't consulting him on roster decisions, and he's the one that spearheaded Ferry's ousting at GM.  If it weren't for that, we would still have Danny Ferry as the GM with Bud as the head coach, and we would be in a much better, non-tanking position now.  It's a shame that Michael Gearon Jr. is the most at fault for the Hawks losing both the best GM they have ever had and the best head coach they have ever had.

We can all agree that Michael Gearon, Jr. is indeed evil incarnate.

But, Danny Ferry is not without fault. He was not the main culprit in the PR disaster that led to his ouster. But he was widely known as being difficult to get along with, and the situation escalated particularly because he didn't have too many people in his corner.

And let's not sugar-coat Ferry's personnel track record. He whiffed on 3 of his 4 first round draft picks. He did pick a great coach. But outside of the Joe Johnson trade (which, as we found out, was due much more to Billy King's failings than's Ferry's prowess), what other great moves did he make? I would term Ferry's tenure an INCOMPLETE at best.

In fact, for now, I would put Stan Kasten as the best GM in our history. He traded for Dominique. He drafted Doc Rivers, Kevin Willis, and John Battle. And he's the only person ever named NBA Executive of the Year in back to back seasons, in '86 and '87.

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, parfait said:

We can all agree that Michael Gearon, Jr. is indeed evil incarnate.

But, Danny Ferry is not without fault. He was not the main culprit in the PR disaster that led to his ouster. But he was widely known as being difficult to get along with, and the situation escalated particularly because he didn't have too many people in his corner.

And let's not sugar-coat Ferry's personnel track record. He whiffed on 3 of his 4 first round draft picks. He did pick a great coach. But outside of the Joe Johnson trade (which, as we found out, was due much more to Billy King's failings than's Ferry's prowess), what other great moves did he make? I would term Ferry's tenure an INCOMPLETE at best.

In fact, for now, I would put Stan Kasten as the best GM in our history. He traded for Dominique. He drafted Doc Rivers, Kevin Willis, and John Battle. And he's the only person ever named NBA Executive of the Year in back to back seasons, in '86 and '87.

Danny Ferry retooled the Hawks without bottoming out, and the result was the 60 win season.  

[parfait]

Just now, KB21 said:

Danny Ferry retooled the Hawks without bottoming out, and the result was the 60 win season.  

To be fair, I did overlook his astute free agent signings: Millsap, Carroll, Bazemore. And he did change operations culture in a positive way.

I just worry that his Draft failings would have soon caught up with us. And signing bargain bin free agents only gets you so far, that hollow 60 win season being an example. It was just adding up to more treadmill time.

[KB21]

So now the 60 win season is a hollow 60 win season.  What else are you pro tankers going to come up with to try and diminish the accomplishments of the Hawks when they were actually winning games?

Well, you guys are getting what you want.  This team is a losing team now, and will be a losing team for a long time.  This has resulted in the team running off a great head coach, and I'm supposed to believe that free agents are going to suddenly beat down the door to come to Atlanta when there is no hope of winning anytime soon?

[marco102]

 

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Can't find the quote but I did find this tidbit

Berman brings word that Budenholzer “is genuinely interested” in the Knicks opening and he cites an NBA source indicating that “New York is his top choice” at this stage. Of course, it is worth pointing out that this comes from only one outlet at this juncture but it goes on to say that Budenholzer would “say yes” if offered New York’s position.

Much of the speculation stems from rumblings already present considering Budenholzer’s apparent opposition to Atlanta’s rebuild and the organization’s willingness to allow him to walk away if the situation presents itself. The Post reports that Budenholzer “appears so disillusioned” with Atlanta’s current organizational direction and, on the flip side, the Hawks have skepticism that going through their potentially lengthy rebuild with Budenholzer at the helm is the right decision.

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/4/23/17270134/mike-budenholzer-new-york-knicks-head-coach-atlanta-hawks-genuine-interest-report-compensation

I don't believe this is a very reliable report. You know the Northeastern media will put out whatever to get clicks, make its fans feel like they are special and actually have the inside track on the coach.  I'll believe Supes before this guy and his anonymous sources.  This was the article I was referring to in my earlier post.  

To let you know, there is nothing out there that says coach Bud flew to Arizona on his own dime. 

[marco102]

11 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So now the 60 win season is a hollow 60 win season.  What else are you pro tankers going to come up with to try and diminish the accomplishments of the Hawks when they were actually winning games?

Well, you guys are getting what you want.  This team is a losing team now, and will be a losing team for a long time.  This has resulted in the team running off a great head coach, and I'm supposed to believe that free agents are going to suddenly beat down the door to come to Atlanta when there is no hope of winning anytime soon?

Question, if the Hawks win an NBA championship in 6 years with Travis Schlenk as GM, will you support that team and its Championship?

[Royjr9]

28 minutes ago, parfait said:

We can all agree that Michael Gearon, Jr. is indeed evil incarnate.

But, Danny Ferry is not without fault. He was not the main culprit in the PR disaster that led to his ouster. But he was widely known as being difficult to get along with, and the situation escalated particularly because he didn't have too many people in his corner.

And let's not sugar-coat Ferry's personnel track record. He whiffed on 3 of his 4 first round draft picks. He did pick a great coach. But outside of the Joe Johnson trade (which, as we found out, was due much more to Billy King's failings than's Ferry's prowess), what other great moves did he make? I would term Ferry's tenure an INCOMPLETE at best.

In fact, for now, I would put Stan Kasten as the best GM in our history. He traded for Dominique. He drafted Doc Rivers, Kevin Willis, and John Battle. And he's the only person ever named NBA Executive of the Year in back to back seasons, in '86 and '87.

I still hold on to the belief ferry was gonna gut the hawks he just didn’t get to see it through.

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So now the 60 win season is a hollow 60 win season.  What else are you pro tankers going to come up with to try and diminish the accomplishments of the Hawks when they were actually winning games?

Well, you guys are getting what you want.  This team is a losing team now, and will be a losing team for a long time.  This has resulted in the team running off a great head coach, and I'm supposed to believe that free agents are going to suddenly beat down the door to come to Atlanta when there is no hope of winning anytime soon?

I don't view the 60 win season as hollow at all.  It was a great year.  We didn't end up contending in the playoffs but we put together an exhilarating run.  

I would have loved to have seen Ferry continue as GM and would love to see where we would be today had he done so.  I think it is very likely he would have sold off Hoford and Sap as they approached their most recent contracts and been able to re-tool the team on the fly without tanking.  Of course, Budcox did not do that and backed the franchise into a corner given the mediocre results and escalating payroll.  Ferry was always very conscious about a nice value/salary ratio.  There is no way he would have signed contracts like the one that Bazemore got.

 

1 minute ago, Royjr9 said:

I still hold on to the belief ferry was gonna gut the hawks he just didn’t get to see it through.

That is very possible but in gutting the team he could have traded players for immediate value rather than seeing our All-Stars walk.

[Royjr9]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I don't view the 60 win season as hollow at all.  It was a great year.  We didn't end up contending in the playoffs but we put together an exhilarating run.  

I would have loved to have seen Ferry continue as GM and would love to see where we would be today had he done so.  I think it is very likely he would have sold off Hoford and Sap as they approached their most recent contracts and been able to re-tool the team on the fly without tanking.  Of course, Budcox did not do that and backed the franchise into a corner given the mediocre results and escalating payroll.  Ferry was always very conscious about a nice value/salary ratio.  There is no way he would have signed contracts like the one that Bazemore got.

 

That is very possible but in gutting the team he could have traded players for immediate value rather than seeing our All-Stars walk.

Yeah that as well I forgot to add that he was gonna trade guys while accumilating talent.

[AHF]

4 hours ago, marco102 said:

Where is there an exact quote from Bud that says this?  I think there's something else going on with the Hawks than just tanking because Bud is interviewing with bad organizations.  If he goes, to the Knicks, I will not post here for a month.  

 

Stuggling to connect the bold statement with the underlined statement.  If you think there is something going on leading to Bud interviewing other than his rejection of last season's tank, why would you stop posting on here for a month if he pulls the rip cord and management agrees to it?  I agree with you that it seems like there is a disconnect between Bud and Ressler and/or Schlenk that goes beyond merely coaching a team that wracked up a bunch of losses.  If that is the case, he will be almost surely be gone.  If he is going, the Knicks are one of the few teams that wouldn't balk at paying him $7M/year.  Knicks are also one of the few franchises that has regularly overpaid in trades for the last decade.  Not a crazy scenario particularly with Porzingas there.

[marco102]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Stuggling to connect the bold statement with the underlined statement.  If you think there is something going on leading to Bud interviewing other than his rejection of last season's tank, why would you stop posting on here for a month if he pulls the rip cord and management agrees to it?  I agree with you that it seems like there is a disconnect between Bud and Ressler and/or Schlenk that goes beyond merely coaching a team that wracked up a bunch of losses.  If that is the case, he will be almost surely be gone.  If he is going, the Knicks are one of the few teams that wouldn't balk at paying him $7M/year.  Knicks are also one of the few franchises that has regularly overpaid in trades for the last decade.  Not a crazy scenario particularly with Porzingas there.

There is none.  I was basically wagering if Bud goes to the Knicks I would not post here for a month considering how terrible that organization is run.  I just feel it's highly unlikely for him to go there. 

I'm honestly just baffled by this entire situation. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by marco102

[AHF]

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

How is Travis Schlenk going to sell the idea that the next coach hired is[n't] just a short term guy to absorb the losses while his true target is a few years down the road?  

Probably by pointing to Brett Brown.

[parfait]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

I don't view the 60 win season as hollow at all.  It was a great year.  We didn't end up contending in the playoffs but we put together an exhilarating run.  

I would have loved to have seen Ferry continue as GM and would love to see where we would be today had he done so.  I think it is very likely he would have sold off Hoford and Sap as they approached their most recent contracts and been able to re-tool the team on the fly without tanking.  Of course, Budcox did not do that and backed the franchise into a corner given the mediocre results and escalating payroll.  Ferry was always very conscious about a nice value/salary ratio.  There is no way he would have signed contracts like the one that Bazemore got.

 

That is very possible but in gutting the team he could have traded players for immediate value rather than seeing our All-Stars walk.

These are crucial points, AHF. I too think that Ferry would have likely retooled on the fly, getting real return for Horford in the summer of '15 and then for Millsap in '16. He seemed to understand asset management. And, yes, he would not have signed any horrible contracts, such as Bazemore's.

But once Bud-Cox mismanaged their assets, the window for retooling on the fly had slammed shut. And a rebuild became the only alternative. If Danny Ferry had been hired in '17, I believe he would have come to the same conclusion. 

So, a retooling on the fly is always preferable to a rebuild. On this I think we can all agree. Bud-Cox simply left the cupboard too bare to even have that option.

[WillBarrow]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I talk to my contact within the organization and he said there is nothing to worry about on Buds front. Atlanta is asking for a lot in terms of draft compensation and teams are balking at the asking price. 

As for Bud stance with NY, Idk, I haven't spoken to him since Friday. But i won't take it more seriously. If a team starts coming to the table with legit draft compensation offers. Atlanta will listen. So far, no one has done that. PHX didnt even make an offer due to that.

Would NY lottery pick even be in play??

[KB21]

Just now, parfait said:

These are crucial points, AHF. I too think that Ferry would have likely retooled on the fly, getting real return for Horford in the summer of '15 and then for Millsap in '16. He seemed to understand asset management. And, yes, he would not have signed any horrible contracts, such as Bazemore's.

But once Bud-Cox mismanaged their assets, the window for retooling on the fly had slammed shut. And a rebuild became the only alternative. If Danny Ferry had been hired in '17, I believe he would have come to the same conclusion. 

So, a retooling on the fly is always preferable to a rebuild. On this I think we can all agree. Bud-Cox simply left the cupboard too bare to even have that option.

The cupboard was never too bare to have that option.  Retooling on the fly takes a little bit of work though, and I don't think Schlenk was willing to do any hard stuff to retool the team on the fly.  The easiest route for him was to just fill the roster with filler and go with a bunch of damn G-League level players.