Big man help is coming

[bleachkit]

20 minutes ago, hawkzlova123 said:

No, I would never exchange Trae for Luka

I wouldn't swap him for anyone.

You wouldn't trade Trae Young for Giannis Antetokounmpo? There is literally no general manager or respected basketball mind that wouldn't make that trade.

[EazyRoc]

15 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

You wouldn't trade Trae Young for Giannis Antetokounmpo? There is literally no general manager or respected basketball mind that wouldn't make that trade.

I wouldn’t either

and the rest of that post is pure speculation and opinion.

Edited December 21, 2019 by EazyRoc

[bleachkit]

13 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

I wouldn’t either

and the rest of that post is pure speculation and opinion.

You wouldn't trade Trae Young for the Greek Freak? Are you out of your mind? Tell me what your argument is, make your case.

Edited December 21, 2019 by bleachkit

[EazyRoc]

11 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

You wouldn't trade Trae Young for the Greek Freak? Are you out of your mind? Tell me what your argument is, make your case.

Greek Freak wasn’t nearly as good as Trae at the same age. We still don’t know how good Trae can be and Trae makes his teammates better. Trae is also significantly easier to build the right team around. Oh! And I also don’t like primary ball handlers who can’t shoot. 

Edited December 21, 2019 by EazyRoc

[bleachkit]

18 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Greek Freak wasn’t nearly as good as Trae at the same age. We still don’t know how good Trae can be and Trae makes his teammates better. Trae is also significantly easier to build the right team around. Oh! And I also don’t like primary ball handlers who can’t shoot. 

Actually Giannis does make him teammates better. He draws tremendous defensive attention. He knows how to kick it out to open shooters. His only weakness is shooting, struggles from the line, but he's shooting 34% from 3 this year., not that bad actually. But his nearly 57% shooting on 32 points per game is ridiculous. Of course he is also a brilliant rebounder, 12.8 per game. But the difference on defense between Trae and Giannis is a chasm as wide as the Grand Canyon. Bucks are also playing great right now. 

Edited December 21, 2019 by bleachkit

[EazyRoc]

56 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Actually Giannis does make him teammates better. He draws tremendous defensive attention. He knows how to kick it out to open shooters. His only weakness is shooting, struggles from the line, but he's shooting 34% from 3 this year., not that bad actually. But his nearly 57% shooting on 32 points per game is ridiculous. Of course he is also a brilliant rebounder, 12.8 per game. But the difference on defense between Trae and Giannis is a chasm as wide as the Grand Canyon. Bucks are also playing great right now. 

Bucks have a really good team around him too. Like..good enough to make the playoffs without him.

[AHF]

At the same age, they are similar impact players by the advanced metrics with Trae's offense being much better and Giannis' defense being much better.  (Example:  In their age 21 seasons, Giannis had an 18.8 PER, .121 WS/48, 2.4 BPM and 3.2 VORP while Trae is putting up 23.2 PER, .113 WS/48, 4.0 BPM, 1.6 VORP.)  Giannis was much more raw than Trae when he entered the league and really took giant leaps in his game the next couple of seasons (i.e., age 22+).  I'm not sure Trae has the same room for improvement.  Giannis basically went from a below average offensive player and stud defender to an elite offensive player and stud defender.  Trae is a below average defender and stud offensive player.  He can continue to get better at both but there is no scenario where he becomes an elite defender.  There is, however, a scenario where his offensive impact is so good that he and Giannis are rivals for MVP but Giannis is already there while Trae has a long way to go and much uncertainty as to whether he can reach that level (Nique never did, for example).  

I'm not offended by any poster who wouldn't trade Trae for anyone.  We are fans of his and you get attached to your team's home grown star.  That is a good thing.  But while I love Trae but I'm not even going to pretend his trade value is on Giannis' level.  We aren't going to see quotes from GMs comparing their trade value but we can see the writing on the wall with that at least as of today.

[Atlantaholic]

On 12/21/2019 at 4:00 PM, bleachkit said:

You wouldn't trade Trae Young for Giannis Antetokounmpo? There is literally no general manager or respected basketball mind that wouldn't make that trade.

Yea if we declined a Giannis for Trae swap it would be one of the few things that would literally make me unfollow this franchise. 

[Atlantaholic]

On 12/21/2019 at 5:46 PM, EazyRoc said:

Bucks have a really good team around him too. Like..good enough to make the playoffs without him.

Yes, and with him on the team they are one of the best teams of all time so far if you believe advanced metrics.  Giannis is on another level compared to Trae, it's not even close, like not the same ball park really, same is true for Luka though the question with Luka is whether he can keep it up. Giannis is on a one year plus streak of playing Lebron at his absolute prime level of production and impact, and his play this year is actually better than any single season Lebron ever put together. His per 36 min stats are insane.

35 points, 15 boards 6.6 assists, 56% from the field 1.4 assists, 1.4 steals which = a 33.6 PER (all time record by a mile, almost two points higher than #2 all time which belongs to Wilt)

Oh and all of this while shooting an uncharacteristic 59% from the free throw line. (career 72% shooter). If his free throw shooting inches back to his career average his stats would be even better. If he ever learns how to become a competent outside threat one can only imagine what type of ridiculous numbers he will be able to put up in the future. And even if he doesn't develop that part of his game, he has shown he can put up some of the most productive seasons in the all time history of the league, while playing all defensive first or second team type of defense on the other end. 

So, while I'm all for a litte bit of homersim the notion that someone would be willing to turn down a Giannis trade is pure comedy. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Atlantaholic

[JTB]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

At the same age, they are similar impact players by the advanced metrics with Trae's offense being much better and Giannis' defense being much better.  (Example:  In their age 21 seasons, Giannis had an 18.8 PER, .121 WS/48, 2.4 BPM and 3.2 VORP while Trae is putting up 23.2 PER, .113 WS/48, 4.0 BPM, 1.6 VORP.)  Giannis was much more raw than Trae when he entered the league and really took giant leaps in his game the next couple of seasons (i.e., age 22+).  I'm not sure Trae has the same room for improvement.  Giannis basically went from a below average offensive player and stud defender to an elite offensive player and stud defender.  Trae is a below average defender and stud offensive player.  He can continue to get better at both but there is no scenario where he becomes an elite defender.  There is, however, a scenario where his offensive impact is so good that he and Giannis are rivals for MVP but Giannis is already there while Trae has a long way to go and much uncertainty as to whether he can reach that level (Nique never did, for example).  

I'm not offended by any poster who wouldn't trade Trae for anyone.  We are fans of his and you get attached to your team's home grown star.  That is a good thing.  But while I love Trae but I'm not even going to pretend his trade value is on Giannis' level.  We aren't going to see quotes from GMs comparing their trade value but we can see the writing on the wall with that at least as of today.

Thanks @AHF

 

In other words you a got damn fool if you wouldn’t trade Trae for Giannis!

....A...GOT....DAMN....FOOL  

[EazyRoc]

9 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Yes, and with him on the team they are one of the best teams of all time so far if you believe advanced metrics.  Giannis is on another level compared to Trae, it's not even close, like not the same ball park really, same is true for Luka though the question with Luka is whether he can keep it up. Giannis is on a one year plus streak of playing Lebron at his absolute prime level of production and impact, and his play this year is actually better than any single season Lebron ever put together. His per 36 min stats are insane.

35 points, 15 boards 6.6 assists, 56% from the field 1.4 assists, 1.4 steals which = a 33.6 PER (all time record by a mile, almost two points higher than #2 all time which belongs to Wilt)

Oh and all of this while shooting an uncharacteristic 59% from the free throw line. (career 72% shooter). If his free throw shooting inches back to his career average his stats would be even better. If he ever learns how to become a competent outside threat one can only imagine what type of ridiculous numbers he will be able to put up in the future. And even if he doesn't develop that part of his game, he has shown he can put up some of the most productive seasons in the all time history of the league, while playing all defensive first or second team type of defense on the other end. 

So, while I'm all for a litte bit of homersim the notion that someone would be willing to turn down a Giannis trade is pure comedy. 

Best team of all time is very hyperbolic. Maybe the best team TODAY. Either way...Giannis wasn’t all that special at 20 years old.

[Atlantaholic]

7 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Best team of all time is very hyperbolic. Maybe the best team TODAY. Either way...Giannis wasn’t all that special at 20 years old.

It's absolutely not hyperbolic. Premature, yes, because the season is not over. But if they keep up this pace they would actually be the most dominant regular season team of all time based off of Basketball-references srs rating.

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=6ffhX

They are on pace for 70 wins, which has only happened twice in the history of the nba. So, no, it is not hyperbolic at all to call it one of the best regular season teams of all time in the making. Of course, it's unlikely they do keep up the pace, simply because it would be so incredible. But even if they drop off significantly they are probably a lock for an all time top 10-15 season barring serious injury to Giannis.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Atlantaholic

[Atlantaholic]

Oh and as a fun fact 2019 Hawks with the 26th worst regular season of all time according to SRS.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tsl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=team_totals&lg_id=NBA&order_by=srs&order_by_asc=Y

Bucks point differential of 13 ppg is the best in the last 20 years. Can't find data before that but it's a sure bet it's one of the best point differentials ever. 

[EazyRoc]

36 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

It's absolutely not hyperbolic. Premature, yes, because the season is not over. But if they keep up this pace they would actually be the most dominant regular season team of all time based off of Basketball-references srs rating.

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=6ffhX

They are on pace for 70 wins, which has only happened twice in the history of the nba. So, no, it is not hyperbolic at all to call it one of the best regular season teams of all time in the making. Of course, it's unlikely they do keep up the pace, simply because it would be so incredible. But even if they drop off significantly they are probably a lock for an all time top 10-15 season barring serious injury to Giannis.

You didn’t say regular season in your original post. Either way, I’m not all that invested in that particular point anyways. You actually have to win a ring to even be in that kind of conversation which they haven’t yet.

Coach Bud has always been absolutely exceptional during the regular season though. 

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, EazyRoc said:

You didn’t say regular season in your original post. Either way, I’m not all that invested in that particular point anyways. You actually have to win a ring to even be in that kind of conversation which they haven’t yet.

Coach Bud has always been absolutely exceptional during the regular season though. 

I said one of the best teams of all time "so far", which is 100% factually correct any way you want to dissect it. 

[EazyRoc]

2 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

I said one of the best teams of all time "so far", which is 100% factually correct any way you want to dissect it. 

They’ve been the GOAT of the first 30 games of the season of all time. Got it.

[Atlantaholic]

2 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

They’ve been the GOAT of the first 30 games of the season of all time. Got it.

Indeed, and we've been the 26th worst team ever with Trae Young as our best player.

Giannis has been putting up the best PER anyone has ever put up and Trae is around 20th in the NBA this year.

Giannis won an MVP last year, and barring injury is the frontrunner by a wide margin at winning MVP this year. 

Trae's resume by comparison is... what? Averages 2 more assists. Compelling argument there. 

 

[EazyRoc]

1 minute ago, Atlantaholic said:

Indeed, and we've been the 26th worst team ever with Trae Young as our best player.

Giannis has been putting up the best PER anyone has ever put up and Trae is around 20th in the NBA this year.

Giannis won an MVP last year, and barring injury is the frontrunner by a wide margin at winning MVP this year. 

Trae's resume by comparison is... what? Averages 2 more assists. Compelling argument there. 

 

Again..what exactly was Giannis doing at age 20 ?

[Atlantaholic]

6 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Again..what exactly was Giannis doing at age 20 ?

So your argument is that Trae will be better than Giannis because he was better at his age 20 season?

That's not an argument lol. 

There's literally hundreds, maybe thousands of players that have been better than Giannis at age 20. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Atlantaholic

[EazyRoc]

2 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

So your argument is that Trae will be better than Giannis because he was better at his age 20 season?

That's not an argument lol. 

There's literally thousands, maybe tens of thousands of players that had better age 20 seasons.

Don’t move the goalposts. That’s not my argument.

What I’m saying is Trae has MVP caliber production at 20 years and is still a couple of years removed from his prime.

The point was to emphasize the futility in comparing a veteran with several years experience to a 2nd year player. Therefore, it would make more sense to make an apples to apples comparison.

So, getting back to the original point before you chimed in, I would not do that because Trae still has room to become significantly better and based on where each was at age 20 means it’s not unrealistic for Trae to become the better player in the future.

Let see what Giannis does this year now that the best player in the league is in the West.