My Birthday Wish off season:

[Buzzard]

Davis Bertans 4 years 16-18 Million
85.2 FT%, 42.4 3P%
Jerami Grant 4 years 10-14 Million
74.4 FT%, 40.0 3P%
Jeff Teague 3 years 8-9 Million
87.3 FT%, 36.8 3P%
Tyrese Haliburton Draft Pick
82.2 FT%, 41.9 3P%

With Dedmon, Fernando, Skal ( on the cheap ), and either Huerter or Reddish in this bench rotation, I don't know how much more quality and shooting depth LP could ask for. The other beauty is none of these contracts look like an albatross. Adding Team Options on the final seasons would make them look even better.

I am just not sold on Schlenk thinking we have a good opportunity in 2021 to sign a big name player for the reason I have already given. A borderline 8th seed or 8th seed in the East is not a very attractive landing spot for the big names who will be available then.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Buzzard

[kg01]

Nice job, ol' dude.

Agree on all counts except Bertans.  I think he could be good for us but maybe I prefer a lesser (cheaper) version.  Like McDermott.

[sturt]

3 hours ago, Buzzard said:

Davis Bertans 4 years 16-18 Million
85.2 FT%, 42.4 3P%
Jerami Grant 4 years 10-14 Million
74.4 FT%, 40.0 3P%
Jeff Teague 3 years 8-9 Million
87.3 FT%, 36.8 3P%
Tyrese Haliburton Draft Pick
82.2 FT%, 41.9 3P%

With Dedmon, Fernando, Skal ( on the cheap ), and either Huerter or Reddish in this bench rotation, I don't know how much more quality and shooting depth LP could ask for. The other beauty is none of these contracts look like an albatross. Adding Team Options on the final seasons would make them look even better.

I am just not sold on Schlenk thinking we have a good opportunity in 2021 to sign a big name player for the reason I have already given. A borderline 8th seed or 8th seed in the East is not a very attractive landing spot for the big names who will be available then.

Thought I would open this and read...

 

Is that _sturt_ will shut up.        

 

Interesting because the one is not ambitious enough to qualify as a "wish"... and the other is pie-in-the-sky ambitious.

And again, give some further thought about whether Grant is going to opt out of his current contract to even be available.

 

If this is as good as Schlenk gets it done, can we really say it was worth driving the roster into a ditch for 3 years?

In other words, how does this make us any better than the 2014-15 roster that also amounted to just a higher seed playoff team and never a genuine threat to get to the NBA Finals?

It might indeed be all he can do. I sure as heck hope its not all he aspires to do.

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, Buzzard said:

Davis Bertans 4 years 16-18 Million
85.2 FT%, 42.4 3P%
Jerami Grant 4 years 10-14 Million
74.4 FT%, 40.0 3P%
Jeff Teague 3 years 8-9 Million
87.3 FT%, 36.8 3P%
Tyrese Haliburton Draft Pick
82.2 FT%, 41.9 3P%

With Dedmon, Fernando, Skal ( on the cheap ), and either Huerter or Reddish in this bench rotation, I don't know how much more quality and shooting depth LP could ask for. The other beauty is none of these contracts look like an albatross. Adding Team Options on the final seasons would make them look even better.

I am just not sold on Schlenk thinking we have a good opportunity in 2021 to sign a big name player for the reason I have already given. A borderline 8th seed or 8th seed in the East is not a very attractive landing spot for the big names who will be available then.

Ok with the players, not the contract lengths - too long.

[Buzzard]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

Thought I would open this and read...

 

Is that _sturt_ will shut up.        

 

Interesting because the one is not ambitious enough to qualify as a "wish"... and the other is pie-in-the-sky ambitious.

And again, give some further thought about whether Grant is going to opt out of his current contract to even be available.

 

If this is as good as Schlenk gets it done, can we really say it was worth driving the roster into a ditch for 3 years?

In other words, how does this make us any better than the 2014-15 roster that also amounted to just a higher seed playoff team and never a genuine threat to get to the NBA Finals?

It might indeed be all he can do. I sure as heck hope its not all he aspires to do.

Its to get the engine started. Trae is a Super Star, Collins off the roids is a All Star, Capela may not be a All Star but you could easily make a case for him if he is healthy. We need at least one of Huerter, Hunter, Reddish to make the next leap to All Star over the next two years. Then we have three to four All -Stars on the same team. If you want more than that you are just being greedy Sturt.

If they don't pan out or they do not gel, you have plenty of good ammo to make some deals with. Plus we have this pick coming up which will be 1 - 8. I am looking at a 3-4 year window to see if these lottery picks are all that.

Schlenk bet on them by picking them; I think he would be good with these signings to jump start the playoffs with. I don't think it will happen which is why its a wish. Chances are 50/50 or better that Bertans stays put and Grant may stay in Denver.

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ok with the players, not the contract lengths - too long.

I am not going to blow smoke up my butt about 2021 and signing some Super Star old or young. We are the Atlanta Hawks and its been over 25 years since a HOF player picked us. In each instance it happened we had made the playoffs no less than four straight seasons. In both instances we had a HOF Coach with many years of playoff experience.

We will not have any of that going into 2021. Best case is we are a 8th seed with one straight year in the playoffs and a Coach ( if he does not get fired ) with one year of experience in the playoffs.

Its great to think some top 25 player will come here; but I am not holding my breath; and its a good thing. I would have croaked 25 years ago if I was. These contracts will either expire in 3 years ( team option ) or four. That is perfect timing for all of these young picks to be hitting their prime.

In 2021 there will be a lot of teams not named Atlanta competing for players. We need to strike while the iron is hot. Schlenk either believes in his picks, his ability to stay away from albatross contracts, and his ability to make good trades if needed or he doesn't. I think he does.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Buzzard

[TRW]

Good list but I would only try to sign Teague if a deal is reasonable. Joe Harris and a guy like P.J. Tucker would be my picks. We need some toughness and gritty players. I really love Gordon Hayward but he'd probably cost too much and wouldn't take a reserve role.

[sturt]

11 hours ago, Buzzard said:

If you want more than that you are just being greedy Sturt.

"More than" what?

For someone who just wrote a few posts ago an admission that he understands the limitations of what he can know, you sure did turn on a dime, and suddenly our roster is already an abundance of riches, and so much so that you're concerned with having too much talent.

I'm on the other side of that. I don't know what we got yet. I'm not... ahem... drunk on any kool-aid.

Let's seeee.... Trae's not just an all-star game participant, he's already a "superstar." Collins hasn't made his first ASG, but the implication is that he will be a common participant. Capela, the same. And of Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish, one of those will be one in the next two years.

And this is the guy saying he's being very cautious to not allow smoke to be blown up his butt.... hehe. That's rich.

Oh. And if "they don't pan out," they'll still be regarded so well around the league that their trade value will be substantial.

Rich, indeed.

More rich, still, in light of the fact that you effectively disregard Schlenk's comment that he's not going to shy away from adding players just because they might threaten to start... and again, if not SG and/or SF, what positions would he have been imagining as he said that, right?

You allege that maybe Jerami Grant would be a threat to start, but that avoids dealing with the actual sticking point between Schlenk's comment and your reason for being uncomfortable with obtaining a top tier or near top-tier talent (Ingram, Hayward, or otherwise)... which is...

Schlenk does not share your discomfort.

Thus, Schlenk will be more assertive, more aggressive beginning with this free agency market, and he will be choosy such that he will not spend money just to spend money... his words, not mine. And moreover in these most recent AJC comments, he's told you and the rest of us that he wants to add to the core with players who are still developing and at the end of their rookie scale deals.

Schlenk's boss was interviewed last June on 92.3, and shared that the plan is eventually to add

Quote

"a free agent or two that turn good into great, and that's the process."

Schlenk told Dime last March that he's persuaded that performance on the floor means something:

Quote

 

“When you look at free agents go, unless they’re just getting a ton of money from somewhere, it’s where they think they can be successful, and that’s what we saw in Golden State. We weren’t a destination.

"[Then] Andre Iguodala decided he wanted to come play for us. That was really the first big free agent that we had, and that happened after that team got to the second round of the playoffs, we actually knocked his team, the Nuggets, out of the playoffs during the first round, and he saw stuff and he saw play and he saw Harrison [Barnes] and Draymond [Green] and all those guys and he said, ‘These guys have a chance to be good, I want to go and play with those guys.'"

 

I've agreed with you that none of this is congruent with pursuing a Paul George kind of veteran.

But a Victor Oladipo kind of veteran? That would seem to be exactly the kind of ideal candidate Schlenk would almost certainly pursue, based on what we've been told.

 

 

 

That's all I've got. Hope your birthday was swell. But man oh man, you're old, my friend. 

 

 

 

[sturt]

I lied. That's not "all I've got." I got a little more.

I ask myself, "Why are these fan friends of mine so insistent on defying the picture that Schlenk himself has painted here, and that, in concert with the slap-yur-mama-in-the-face-obvious state of our limited time frame for having this rare exceptional cap space?"

The only thing I can come up with is that people are tired, and they direly want to see Schlenk spend significant money this time around. Please, no waiting on 2021 for something better. 

So, they set their sites on one-exceptional-trick ponies like Bertans who seems likely to command big money. Or on a good, well-rounded player who probably doesn't have much more development in his future (based on the most recent 2-3 seasons) like Harrell who seems likely to command big money. They want the best supporting cast that money can buy and they want it now.

It's impatience.

Now maybe Schlenk sees something in Bertans or Harrell or some of these other free agents that I wouldn't. So, I feel a little less confident in telling you that I am lock-certain Schlenk won't end up with one or more of those players after all than I am in telling you that I am fully confident of this:

Travis Schlenk is patient.

Travis Schlenk will wait for 2021 to the degree that... cue the Mick Jagger... he can't get what he wants... this off-season.

Ressler revealed about a year ago that they will be looking for a free agent or two who can take them from good to great. Schlenk has said he's looking to add to the core, isn't going to let competition for starting slots bother him, and reveals something about the level of talent he wants to somehow attract when he reflects on Iggy going to GSW... which, he attests, largely was born out of an impressive GSW performance in the playoffs the year prior... which implies that, indeed, there will be some pressure to not only get to next season's post season, but to make a really good impression performance-wise when they get there.... which is further affirmed, actually, by Pierce's comments several weeks ago (paraphrase "This is a playoff team.).

In Travis we trust.

[capstone21]

I want a younger Jrue Holiday like player to pair with Trae.  Can handle the ball, excellent defender and hit the three.

[TheFuzz]

14 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I am not going to blow smoke up my butt about 2021 and signing some Super Star old or young. We are the Atlanta Hawks and its been over 25 years since a HOF player picked us. In each instance it happened we had made the playoffs no less than four straight seasons. In both instances we had a HOF Coach with many years of playoff experience.

We will not have any of that going into 2021. Best case is we are a 8th seed with one straight year in the playoffs and a Coach ( if he does not get fired ) with one year of experience in the playoffs.

Its great to think some top 25 player will come here; but I am not holding my breath; and its a good thing. I would have croaked 25 years ago if I was. These contracts will either expire in 3 years ( team option ) or four. That is perfect timing for all of these young picks to be hitting their prime.

In 2021 there will be a lot of teams not named Atlanta competing for players. We need to strike while the iron is hot. Schlenk either believes in his picks, his ability to stay away from albatross contracts, and his ability to make good trades if needed or he doesn't. I think he does.

Keeping cap open and contracts short isn't just about signing dudes, it's also about keeping flexibility and minimizing risk. Any of those guys (particularly Grant and especially Teague) could fall off a cliff and you're left with dead weight, much harder to get better or worse.

[kg01]

51 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

I want a younger Jrue Holiday like player to pair with Trae.  Can handle the ball, excellent defender and hit the three.

Quiet as it's kept, Lonzo Ball is close to that now.

[sturt]

57 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

I want a younger Jrue Holiday like player to pair with Trae.  Can handle the ball, excellent defender and hit the three.

I concur.

Tyrese, you hearin this?

How bout you, Travis?

Kid is a legit back-up PG and a legit competitor for the SG starting slot, at least part-time.

 

[Buzzard]

@sturt

I don't have a four page documentary for you. It does not take that many words to say what I have to say. Its simple Sturt, in the same way that you believe in Ingram, I believe in Collins and Trae. In the same way you don't believe in Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish, I do believe in them.

I think they need next season and then 2022 to get where they need to be. You really have a problem with simple concepts. I said we did not have enough talent on our bench. That does not mean I don't think our core is talented.

Quote

For someone who just wrote a few posts ago an admission that he understands the limitations of what he can know, you sure did turn on a dime, and suddenly our roster is already an abundance of riches, and so much so that you're concerned with having too much talent.

You can shove that above statement where the sun don't shine. You just entered my ignored list.

We need a bench, If not Bertans, Grant, Teague something along those lines. Why is that concept so hard for you? I think know why you, you try to make other posters look like fools trying to understand your five page  dissertations that contain about 90% repetitive theories and a 10% hit at someones mental ability stating they don't know what they want or just said.

I should have listened and ignored you a long time ago.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, TheFuzz said:

Keeping cap open and contracts short isn't just about signing dudes, it's also about keeping flexibility and minimizing risk. Any of those guys (particularly Grant and especially Teague) could fall off a cliff and you're left with dead weight, much harder to get better or worse.

While I agree with you in concept about keeping contracts short is the best play in a perfect world; giving players financial stability may be the only way we can even get good to great role players to come here. I don't want us to be the team that signs Jabari Parker at the last minute to a two year deal again. I don't think Schlenk wants that again either.

We need some of the best shooters/players out of this group of free agents. A Jabari Parker like contract in length will probably not be enough. They cannot be albatross deals. They must be looked on as good to great assets. In other words, he still has to be smart with the amounts.

[Buzzard]

32 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

@sturt I needed to fix this and the time ran out. Its fixed.

 

@sturt

I don't have a four page documentary for you. It does not take that many words to say what I have to say. Its simple Sturt, in the same way that you believe in Ingram, I believe in Collins and Trae. In the same way you don't believe in Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish, I do believe in them.

I think they need next season and then 2022 to get where they need to be. You really have a problem with simple concepts. I said we did not have enough talent on our bench. That does not mean I don't think our core is talented. I said I am not always right; and I said I can't read Schlenks mind.

Quote

For someone who just wrote a few posts ago an admission that he understands the limitations of what he can know, you sure did turn on a dime, and suddenly our roster is already an abundance of riches, and so much so that you're concerned with having too much talent.

You can shove that above statement where the sun don't shine. You just entered my ignored list.

We need a bench, If not Bertans, Grant, Teague then something along those lines. Why is that concept so hard for you?

I should have listened and ignored you a long time ago.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Buzzard

[ShooterSays]

I feel like this is a pretty realistic off season actually. If it's a "Birthday Wish" off season, you might as well go a little 2K with it. At least throw the #1 overall pick in there! Maybe a little bit of Ingram too.

[Spud2nique]

6 hours ago, sturt said:

Travis Schlenk will wait for 2021

Yup. Giannis. I made a thread about it. Giannis to the Hawks. No Thingram ever.

[sturt]

3 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I don't have a four page documentary for you.

Indeed.

And you evidently think that gnawing your teeth and growling and attacking the other person is a great substitute for using substance  to attack/counterpoint the other person's points made.

Criticizing word count, too, routinely translates to, "I got nothin, and your comments made too much sense, so here, let me poke at you in this other roundabout way."

3 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I believe in Collins and Trae. In the same way you don't believe in Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish, I do believe in them.

This isn't about what we believe, it's what is real right now when hard decisions either get made or they don't get made, and the time-space continuum denies you the option of making them later when your faith is either supported or isn't.

Schlenk believes in these guys, just as I do. And yet, he is not saying what you are saying. (I'd repeat myself again with the quotes, but you're right, you didn't have any counterpoint to it the first couple of times, so, yeah, no point.)

 

3 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I said we did not have enough talent on our bench. That does not mean I don't think our core is talented.

You need to get a refund on that speed reading course you took, because I don't know what this is in response to... I even spent a paragraph illuminating the degree to which you think our core is talented... ie, to the point that you're actually worried that it would be greedy to try to accumulate any more than we have... in fact, daang, you even quoted what I said, and don't seem to have realized what you were quoting.

3 hours ago, Buzzard said:

You can shove that above statement where the sun don't shine. You just entered my ignored list.

Evidently, you take these things a helluvalot more personally than you should, then. It's a response to your perspective, not an assault on your right to exist. If you really think your perspective is solid, it should be easy enough to counterpoint one after the other the points made. In the absence of that, not just me, but everyone else is left to think you did the best you could do, and the best you could do is to gnaw your teeth and growl and complain. My counterpoints, like anyone else's, don't react to your feelings, only to your own use of logic and facts.

And heaven's no, never even think about conceding that the rationale presented to you might just be persuasive. Thank goodness you at least resisted that. No one ever respects anyone for acknowledging legit points were made. (Yes, sarcasm, Sheldon.)

 

But having said that, I am sorry you felt so angry about something that amounts to only conversation about a consumer entertainment topic... at least, in the future, go off about something like politics or religion please... something that actually matters.

 

This remains the bottom line where it concerns the OP...

  

On 4/18/2020 at 6:39 PM, sturt said:

If this is as good as Schlenk gets it done, can we really say it was worth driving the roster into a ditch for 3 years?

In other words, how does this make us any better than the 2014-15 roster that also amounted to just a higher seed playoff team and never a genuine threat to get to the NBA Finals?

It might indeed be all he can do. I sure as heck hope its not all he aspires to do.

 

[sturt]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Yup. Giannis.

Like AD, it will be the first call, almost certainly.

 

Okay, so let's just set aside Ingram. And let's set aside AD and Giannis.

Is there some room for agreement on Oladipo in 2021 (ie, assuming, of course, he doesn't get extended now)?