Who do you want at #6?

[terrell]

51 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I never hated Deni

YOu never liked him much him either..At least I thought it was you.. Maybe not..Im getting old. lol

Edited August 26, 2020 by terrell

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

No they're not.  Has nothing to do with the dad, which appears to be clouding your assessment.  The dad hasn't been in the media for a year and has clearly stepped out of the limelight.

This is about Lamelo Ball, not Lavar.  The only player with an elite skillset in this draft is Lamelo Ball as a playmaker.  That's why he's in everybody's top tier.

Aye @NBASupes, come at me bro.  But understand, my tiers are based more on 'likely outcome' than potential.

Even if you think lowly of Toppin, he's still the best offensive player in this draft at worst a good offensive player right now. His floor is likely a top 15 prospect in this class. That's what gets me. I am high on Toppin, I already think day 1, he's a top 30 PF in the NBA and a 15 offensive PF which I know, is not a high mark at all but considering this is the draft and a weaker one at that, that's pretty damn good value even if you are down on the kid. I just don't get it. I really don't understand how some Hawk fans can be down on this kid. He's literally a perfect system fit with what we do and want from our bigs. It's crazy to me to be honest. 

[NBASupes]

16 minutes ago, terrell said:

YOu never liked him much him either..At least I thought it was you.. Maybe not..Im getting old. lol

I've been saying for a month, I like this kid but taking him over Toppin, is shocking to me. Toppin is clearly a better offensive player and defensively, he's a 4 so he's not going to be much better either on defense if not worse. Because of his COVID play, his stock has shot up and teams are drinking the Kool-Aid. Some teams already liked him but once he came back and looked much better. Teams were sold. He benefited from post COVID play. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by NBASupes

[Peoriabird]

50 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Killian Hayes vs. Tyrese Halliburton. Who you got?

Hayes by a mile!

[kg01]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Even if you think lowly of Toppin, he's still the best offensive player in this draft at worst a good offensive player right now. His floor is likely a top 15 prospect in this class. That's what gets me. I am high on Toppin, I already think day 1, he's a top 30 PF in the NBA and a 15 offensive PF which I know, is not a high mark at all but considering this is the draft and a weaker one at that, that's pretty damn good value even if you are down on the kid. I just don't get it. I really don't understand how some Hawk fans can be down on this kid. He's literally a perfect system fit with what we do and want from our bigs. It's crazy to me to be honest. 

He's not good enough offensively to offset what he'll give away defensively.  It's basically that simple.

I'll admit I'm also dubious on the sudden surge Avdija has realized, but I didn't drop him because I can see him at least being a decent team defender.  Toppin can't be that, in my opinion.  That's the difference.

[marco102]

59 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Killian Hayes vs. Tyrese Halliburton. Who you got?

Hayes!

[Gray Mule]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Killian Hayes vs. Tyrese Halliburton. Who you got?

Tyrese Haliburton !!

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

He's not good enough offensively to offset what he'll give away defensively.  It's basically that simple.

I'll admit I'm also dubious on the sudden surge Avdija has realized, but I didn't drop him because I can see him at least being a decent team defender.  Toppin can't be that, in my opinion.  That's the difference.

A top 15 offensive player and a bottom five defensive player in the NBA. That's year two JC. That's basically what he is right now impact wise and that's year 1. No sophomore jump where he would be fully able to use his playmaking and scheme versatility with the experience he already has from college. 

Like I said, I'll take year 2 JC as a top 15 choice overall even if he never improves again a if he improves which he should just like everyone else, why not take that is my question at the worst.

You can do much worse in this class. Coaches can coach defense and he's an overall smart player, he can learn how to be an impact on defense. I don't know why guys just don't see it that way at the worst. We can disagree on potential but his floor is the best in this class. His offensive floor will likely be in the top 15 of this class when everyone reaches their ceiling.

Edited August 26, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Killian Hayes vs. Tyrese Halliburton. Who you got?

As a prospect, Haliburton for me. Hayes has a higher ceiling but he has more blockers and there is not guaranteed he will get there. 

[kg01]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

A top 15 offensive player and a bottom five defensive player in the NBA. That's year two JC. That's basically what he is right now impact wise and that's year 1. No sophomore jump where he would be fully able to use his playmaking and scheme versatility with the experience he already has from college. 

Like I said, I'll take year 2 JC as a top 15 choice overall even if he never improves again a if he improves which he should just like everyone else, why not take that is my question at the worst.

You can do much worse in this class. Coaches can coach defense and he's an overall smart player, he can learn how to be an impact on defense. I don't know why guys just don't see it that way at the worst. We can disagree on potential but his floor is the best in this class. His floor will likely be in the top 15 of this class when everyone reaches their ceiling.

You're doing some gymnastics to avoid admitting we don't need Toppin because we have Collins.

I haven't even played the trump card, which is Toppin's age.  You project that he'll continue to improve.  I'm dubious on that.

I have a new comp to make your head explode again, btw.  Scott, Mike 

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You're doing some gymnastics to avoid admitting we don't need Toppin because we have Collins.

I haven't even played the trump card, which is Toppin's age.  You project that he'll continue to improve.  I'm dubious on that.

I have a new comp to make your head explode again, btw.  Scott, Mike 

We don't need any PF because JC. That's some stupid shit! Take the best damn player available. f*** JC! He's not Anthony f***ing Davis or Giannis. He's f***ing JC. Even if he was AD or Giannis, take the best players. It's not that hard. Just imagine if Indy was like, we can't take Paul George, we have Danny Granger. Let's take Patrick Patterson. I would fire TS so fast if he had the stupid logic I see on here. You want to piss me off, say some stupid shit like this. Don't draft MJ, we got Drexler. Don't draft Luka, we got DeAaron Fox. Stupid f***ing shit!

Age ain't no trump card. I already showed why age should not be a discrimination card already earlier in this thread on Toppin. 

Good damn, I am getting sick of some of you fans

Edited August 26, 2020 by NBASupes

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

We don't need any PF because JC. That's some stupid shit! Take the best damn player available. f*** JC! He's not Anthony f***ing Davis or Giannis. He's f***ing JC.

Plus its not like Collins hasn't missed any games in his career or has a solid back player behind him.  Didn't we learn anything last year?

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Plus its not like Collins hasn't missed any games in his career or has a solid back player behind him.  Didn't we learn anything last year?

Jabari Parker and Vince Carter. Backup PF is a big deal in this league. Shit you need a good backup at every position in this league or you are going to be hurting when someone is hurt

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Jabari Parker and Vince Carter. Backup PF is a big deal in this league. Shit you need a good backup at every position in this league or you are going to be hurting when someone is hurt

Brad Rowland spews that nonsense also...He is like we don't need a big man because we are fully stocked with big men but we need wings!!!  I'm like who are there all star big men he speaks of?  At last count we have like 3 that can rotate on a winning team and heck, Dedmon is foul prone.  Its just weird to me.  And dude is obsessed with small ball like we were killers with a those small ball line ups last year.  Drives me crazy!

[NBASupes]

17 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Brad Rowland spews that nonsense also...He is like we don't need a big man because we are fully stocked with big men but we need wings!!!  I'm like who are there all star big men he speaks of?  At last count we have like 3 that can rotate on a winning team.  Its just weird to me.  And dude is obsessed with small ball like we were killers with a those small ball line ups last year.  Drives me crazy!

The level of stupidity from Brad Rowland and Chris Kirshner is egregious. I honestly think since JC is so good to the media and he's productive unlike Baze, that they kinda have a soft spot for him. They basically have turned him into this KP like value in their mind where you know, he should get the max. In what world should JC get the max? In all impact metrics, it's like hell naw. 

You don't know how happy I am to have TS and Michelle Leftwich. They have a system that assesses how much you should get salary wise. JC from what I heard is in the same tier with guys like Myles Turner, Zach LaVine at the same age, and Aaron Gordon. 

Even with that said, it makes no sense to say we are stacked with bigs. Dedmon literally had a min player like impact season while being paid 14 million. Bruno was a G-League player playing mostly NBA mins. It was rough, real rough. Skal been hurt most of the year. 

Capela was hurt damn near the entire season and doesn't exactly fit JC. JC literally was suspended for 25 games for performance drugs.

We have a bigs issue, a wings issue and a backup PG issue. There is a reason we only won 20 games. We need to add players. I don't see how these same idiots are like, let's draft a backup PG who has no shot at overtaking Trae with no restraint or a wing who will never be in the top 3 of the wing rotation over a big like Toppin or Okongwu.

Idiot shit! Our beats can have backward ass logic

Edited August 26, 2020 by NBASupes

[Gray Mule]

Remember, Capela has never played as a Hawk and neither has Skal.  

Having these two new players will make a difference.  Add in our young returning players, the player we draft or the player we trade our draft pick for.  Now comes free agency and someone wanting to drop a covid18 player to clear $$$ payroll for, maybe, a second round pick.

This will e a different team next season and, hopefully, no one being expelled for 25 games.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 I don't see how these same idiots are like, let's draft a backup PG who has not shot at overtaking Trae with no restraint or a wing who will never be in the top 3 of the wing rotation over a big like Toppin or Okongwu.

Idiot shit! Our beats can have backward ass logic

Seriously!!!  I thought i was the only one thinking this!

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Remember, Capela has never played as a Hawk and neither has Skal.  

 

We have 3 bigs that can be effective...One is a 10 minute per game Big in Dedmon.  The other 2 are Capela and Collins.  What happens if one gets in foul trouble or misses games?  Oh that's right we'll throw Skal in there to dominate.  Typical Hawks

[NBASupes]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Seriously!!!  I thought i was the only one thinking this!

I been peeped the fix is in. The thing is TS likes Obi Toppin a lot. Obviously, we have our value system which is different than our big board but man, Obi is well liked by TS. I can't say everyone in the organization shares the same views but this is an eye of the beholder draft. Shit, everyone sees things differently 

[kg01]

36 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We don't need any PF because JC. That's some stupid shit! Take the best damn player available. f*** JC! He's not Anthony f***ing Davis or Giannis. He's f***ing JC. Even if he was AD or Giannis, take the best players. It's not that hard. Just imagine if Indy was like, we can't take Paul George, we have Danny Granger. Let's take Patrick Patterson. I would fire TS so fast if he had the stupid logic I see on here. You want to piss me off, say some stupid shit like this. Don't draft MJ, we got Drexler. Don't draft Luka, we got DeAaron Fox. Stupid f***ing shit!

Age ain't no trump card. I already showed why age should not be a discrimination card already earlier in this thread on Toppin. 

Good damn, I am getting sick of some of you fans

Oh supes, you're so easy.

Toppin's age matters.  Sorry, but it does.  It matters to me because I don't foresee this magical offensive player that you do.  I see a one-sided specialist, at best.

He'll never be any better than Collins is right now.  Mark my words.