Best collection of talent since 1994

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Dejay said:

Whoa there. If I recall, Willis was out in '88-89 because of a broken foot. So he never got to play with Nique, Moses, Theus, and Doc. Had he played, their entire season might have ended up differently. And don't get me started on the riff with Theus and Fratello.

Based on the fact that all five of those guys played in All-Star games with two of them being in the Hall and Nique in his prime, I'd put this team first in terms of overall talent.

It would a most interesting matchup. Could Hunter at 100 percent stay with Nique? He'd better, because Capela would be very occupied with Moses, as would Collins with Willis and Bogdanovic with Theus so there's no help coming if Nique gets hot. But one could say the same thing about Trae cooking Doc...

Again this is all on paper but that's all we have is what's on paper.   I think a lot of people jump out of the window because we are doing so well, but we have had a lot of talented teams (indivdual talent) that just didn't win. 

If you consider it though, we've had teams that had to try to get past Jordan and the Bulls, Lebron and the Cavs, and Isaiah and the Pistons.   Not to mention Boston's 2 big threes. 

 

[Diesel]

43 minutes ago, HawkingAwesome said:

this is the deepest hawks team ever

This is where I can agree. 

We have depth.   Something that other Hawks teams lacked... but at the time, we did like the depth.   I hope this doesn't become the same. 

 

[Thomas]

Moses and Theus actually broke what we did have and that was outstanding team chemistry. So going with the flat out most talent, no matter their age and all, is not the whole story. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

Moses and Theus actually broke what we did have and that was outstanding team chemistry. So going with the flat out most talent, no matter their age and all, is not the whole story. 

That's the point.  There's a difference between talent and chemistry.   I think this poster confused talent with chemistry. 

This team has good chemistry because they know how to move out of the way and let Trae work... and we are deep with guys who know how to do that. 

However, talent.... Shit.. Josh Smith had a gang of talent.  He's on our alltime top 5 in just about every category.  BUT his Chemistry Sucked. 

When you talk about talent...

Big Dog, Theus, Kukoc, Shareef....  You would be hard pressed to find a more talented bunch...  BUT... the timing wasn't right.   Coming off an allstar year, Theus was always hurt.  Kukoc had lost the love to be great.   And Shareef had to share the ball with Big Dog.   Plus the coaching wasn't there to make the chemistry work. 

Right now, we have the perfect storm.  We have a bonafide  superstar living up to his potential.  We have role players who play their roles.  We have good coaching.  Remember, this same talent was under LP... Was it that talented then??

 

Just now, Diesel said:

That's the point.  There's a difference between talent and chemistry.   I think this poster confused talent with chemistry. 

This team has good chemistry because they know how to move out of the way and let Trae work... and we are deep with guys who know how to do that. 

However, talent.... Shit.. Josh Smith had a gang of talent.  He's on our alltime top 5 in just about every category.  BUT his Chemistry Sucked. 

When you talk about talent...

Big Dog, Theus, Kukoc, Shareef....  You would be hard pressed to find a more talented bunch...  BUT... the timing wasn't right.   Coming off an allstar year, Theus was always hurt.  Kukoc had lost the love to be great.   And Shareef had to share the ball with Big Dog.   Plus the coaching wasn't there to make the chemistry work. 

Right now, we have the perfect storm.  We have a bonafide  superstar living up to his potential.  We have role players who play their roles.  We have good coaching.  Remember, this same talent was under LP... Was it that talented then??

 

I meant Theo... as in Theo Ratliff.

[Spud2nique]

11 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

No I don’t think this thread is about the individual talent vs the team chemistry

 

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

There's a difference between talent and chemistry.

 

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, Thomas said:

Moses and Theus actually broke what we did have and that was outstanding team chemistry.

This. 

[Diesel]

A better question is does this team have the best chemistry that we have seen in a Hawks team?

Bud's 60 win team had great chemistry.  Unfortunately, their demise was Lebron + NY Police + Dellabadadova taking out Kyle Korver and trying to do the same with Horford (and getting Horford ejected in a tight game) and DMC going down. 

 

Then listening to Lebron defend his hinchman saying "The NBA is a brotherhood."

 

[sturt]

That this team is this good and simultaneously this young is stunning. We've never been this good and this young, and I can say that with confidence because it's only been relatively recently in the NBA that the draft has allowed such young players to enter.

The theory goes that the younger you get a group like this together, the more chemistry you can expect to develop, and the greater success, and maybe best of all, the greater longevity of success.

Boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen, we're not "there" yet, by any means, but it's not too soon to imagine a San Antonio Spurs kind-of run... and, kind of team... is coming into view. Funny, we used to talk about being SAS East all those Bud years... and now, we may be better positioned for that now than ever.

[Spud2nique]

23 minutes ago, sturt said:

San Antonio Spurs kind-of run..

I’m glad you said Spurs and not Warriors being the Warrior hater I am. I liked all those Spurs teams. Never bothered me that they won. Was hard to hate on Timmy and Manu. Parker was a bit annoying but still professional.

[AHF]

On 6/7/2021 at 10:02 AM, Thomas said:

Moses and Theus actually broke what we did have and that was outstanding team chemistry. So going with the flat out most talent, no matter their age and all, is not the whole story. 

Agreed.  Moses was also well past his prime at that point, although still very good.  He was no longer the MVP level talent he was when he collected his ring.  I think his impact is a bit overstated by the stats.  But nobody collected their own miss for a rebound and put back like Moses at that point in his career!

[Spud2nique]

57 minutes ago, AHF said:

nobody collected their own miss for a rebound and put back like Moses at that point in his career!

McHale, Barkley or Rodman but ya I agree.

[AHF]

13 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

McHale, Barkley or Rodman but ya I agree.

Moses seemed to miss way more often around the basket than those guys.  Let me peak at the numbers for that year real quick.  Looks at BR.  OK, so we are missing the shooting stats since they aren't available in that era and so we can't focus specifically on shots around the basket but I don't think that hurts Moses a ton since I don't think he took a much higher % of jumpers than any of these guys.  And here are the numbers on 2pt shots:

1988-89

Moses .496% 2pt FG%, 13.4 2pt fga/gm

Chuckwagon .636% 2pt FG%, 13.2 2pt fga/gm

McHale .548% 2pt FG%, 15.5 2pt fga/gm

Rodman .614% 2pt FG%, 6.4 2pt fga/gm

 

I remember laughing with my dad at the sheer number of times that Moses would miss, collect his own rebound and finish the play on the second or third attempt.  Based on the % of missed shots (with Moses missing a substantially higher % than anyone else), I'm going to call that a soft confirmation of my imperfect memory.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

I remember laughing with my dad at the sheer number of times that Moses would miss, collect his own rebound and finish the play on the second or third attempt.  Based on the % of missed shots (with Moses missing a substantially higher % than anyone else), I'm going to call that a soft confirmation of my imperfect memory.

 Nice call. I wish I had gotten a chance to watch a young Moses playing for the Rockets or Buffalo Braves.  Never saw a young Moses, my earliest recollection was 83 championship team with the Sixers.  But I’m talking the young raw physical Moses. Would have been a fun live watch. Beast before the term was coined for sure.

[AHF]

37 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

 Nice call. I wish I had gotten a chance to watch a young Moses playing for the Rockets or Buffalo Braves.  Never saw a young Moses, my earliest recollection was 83 championship team with the Sixers.  But I’m talking the young raw physical Moses. Would have been a fun live watch. Beast before the term was coined for sure.

Agreed.  He came out raw as the first player to ever skip college.  Beast is a great word in the sense that he had such raw physical skills as to allow him to put up some dominant numbers against grown men.  An All-Star and 3rd in rebounding as a rookie in the ABA.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

An All-Star and 3rd in rebounding as a rookie in the ABA.

Wow, had forgotten about 3rd in rebounding as a rookie. Wow. That’s pretty cool stuff right there.

[sillent]

On 6/6/2021 at 5:20 PM, Diesel said:

Let's think....

1.  Bibby, Johnson, Horf, Smith, and Marv  - I think I like Crawford's better.

 

2.  Horf, Teague, Sap, KK, and DMC 

 

3.  Rivers, Nique, Rollins, Whitman, and Willis. 

 

4.  Mutombo, Smith, Blaylock, Laettner, and Norman

 

5.   Trae, Bogi, Hunter, JC, and Clint. 

 

 

Which of these teams would you go to war with. 

 

A healthy Trae, Cam, Hunter, Collins, Capela... 

In my bizarro world Jeff Teague( with Trae IQ), Cam (in his future prime), Nique (prime) JSmoove (prime), Mutombo (prime)