Villain and Freak pair

[sturt]

This is sacrilege to say, but Giannis is overrated. He just is. He makes creative shots. He makes thunderous dunks. He's a significant defensive asset like few others in the league. And. He sucks from the arc. And from the charity stripe.

Sounds a lot like what this comparison player might amass were he about 6 inches taller (and thus, a large part of the benefit of that, getting more shots from closer range), and just a smidgen better jump shooter. Otherwise, the description above fits him as well (... except for the overrated part, that is).

 

[Spud2nique]

14 minutes ago, sturt said:

but Giannis is overrated.

Sadly, I kind of get it. Like as a skilled basketball player, he is below average. He’s just too physically elite and athletic which automatically makes him good.

He’s kinda like Wilt. I mean Wilt was dominant but did he have the best skills in basketball? 

[sturt]

Oh. Yeah. The comparison player is MCW.

[nathan2331]

35 minutes ago, sturt said:

This is sacrilege to say, but Giannis is overrated. He just is. He makes creative shots. He makes thunderous dunks. He's a significant defensive asset like few others in the league. And. He sucks from the arc. And from the charity stripe.

Sounds a lot like what this comparison player might amass were he about 6 inches taller (and thus, a large part of the benefit of that, getting more shots from closer range), and just a smidgen better jump shooter. Otherwise, the description above fits him as well (... except for the overrated part, that is).

 

Not sure what point you're making with the comparison. A lot of guys would be successful if they were a similar height and coordinated. Few humans actually are though which makes Giannis unique and productive on a basketball court. Sure he has his deficiencies but all players have them. That being said, if you're saying he's not worth trading the farm for I would agree.

[sturt]

@nathan2331  pm'd you.

[AHF]

3 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Unfortunately I agree as much as I like Giannis personally.  Your #1 option as a non-shooting (let's be real) big just doesn't work in todays game.  I think they constructed pretty much an ideal roster around him this year, but it's not looking good.  Bud is probably half the problem up there but I just really don't like non-shooting 1st options, Giannis is basically a bigger version of Ben Simmons that isn't afraid to shoot occasionally. 

Good news for the Hawks.  Trae would be the #1 option who spaces the floor out to 30 ft and can run a much better PnR with Giannis than anyone on the Bucks roster.  I still think Trae is an ideal player to pair with Giannis.

[JayBirdHawk]

Giannis to MCW comparison?  One is a bench guy.

Maybe, Giannis is just not a true #1 because of his limited offensive skillsket, but paired with a player like Trae he can modify his role.

Edited June 8, 2021 by JayBirdHawk

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Sadly, I kind of get it. Like as a skilled basketball player, he is below average. He’s just too physically elite and athletic which automatically makes him good.

He’s kinda like Wilt. I mean Wilt was dominant but did he have the best skills in basketball? 

Wilt did lead the league in total assists, had 3 seasons in the top 5, and had 7 seasons in the top 20.  He was pretty amazing and not just an earlier version of Shaq in terms of skills.

[JeffS17]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

Good news for the Hawks.  Trae would be the #1 option who spaces the floor out to 30 ft and can run a much better PnR with Giannis than anyone on the Bucks roster.  I still think Trae is an ideal player to pair with Giannis.

I just don't think Giannis/Capela sharing the floor is a winning recipe.  Too easy to defend in the post season.  If Capela was a part of the package I would be happier with a Giannis trade, but I still like our roster right now enough that I'm not eager to change it.

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

Good news for the Hawks.  Trae would be the #1 option who spaces the floor out to 30 ft and can run a much better PnR with Giannis than anyone on the Bucks roster.  I still think Trae is an ideal player to pair with Giannis.

Giannis has to be able to PNR.  You would think that it's automatic... but the role man has to have some BBIQ.  I think JC is one of the best I have seen at it.    There was a spectacular PNR by JC/Trae in game 1.   JC actually caught the ball behind him but it was the best possible ball placement.  It wasn't about athleticism.. it was about recognition.  I don't know if I have ever seen Giannis be an above average roller.    What he does do well offensively is get close and dunk.   Within 10, he's an automatic 2.   But the question still remains... why haven't he worked on his game at all?  He's been an athletic freak of nature all of his life.  I would have thought that last year's playoffs would have motivated him to work on other aspects of his game.   Like a midrange stroke. 

I would pay Millsap to train Giannis if I were coach Bud.  Sap has nothing close to the Athleticism that Giannis possess but his BBIQ is off the charts for that position. 

[Spud2nique]

24 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I would pay Millsap to train Giannis if I were coach Bud. 

Ya this. Sap has to coach after he’s done he’s too good, unless of course he’s not a lifer and wants to ride off into the sunset  

[Spud2nique]

47 minutes ago, AHF said:

I still think Trae is an ideal player to pair with Giannis.

2 of the biggest hearts and talents in the game with absolutely different skills that would mesh perfectly on the court. Ya this would be the #1 pairing for me, outside of Giannis I wouldn’t trade for anyone out there even Embiid.

[JeffS17]

29 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

2 of the biggest hearts and talents in the game with absolutely different skills that would mesh perfectly on the court. Ya this would be the #1 pairing for me, outside of Giannis I wouldn’t trade for anyone out there even Embiid.

I'd actually prefer we trade for an elite SG/SF before Giannis.  We have Capela who is super solid and on a good contract, and Okongwu is developing behind him.  Another solid 2 way wing player to pair with Hunter (and Cam when he makes all-NBA next year) would be ideal.  Someone like Mikal Bridges or OG would make me happy, or if we go bigger, PG would work as well.  I'm not eager to make any moves this off-season though.  This group has chemistry and they're developing and getting better together -- that's a recipe for future success

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Mikal Bridges or OG 

Funny you mention them they were my targets in their respective drafts I believe OG was 23rd to the Raps in 2017, glad we got Collins there but initially wanted OG, and Bridges was one of my top 5 prospects in 2018, solid fundamentally sound winner.

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I'd actually prefer we trade for an elite SG/SF before Giannis.  We have Capela who is super solid and on a good contract, and Okongwu is developing behind him.  Another solid 2 way wing player to pair with Hunter (and Cam when he makes all-NBA next year) would be ideal.  Someone like Mikal Bridges or OG would make me happy, or if we go bigger, PG would work as well.  I'm not eager to make any moves this off-season though.  This group has chemistry and they're developing and getting better together -- that's a recipe for future success

Elite or Solid?

[Spud2nique]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Elite or Solid?

Yup neither is elite but both solid as hell.

There are no elites out there at SG/SF I don’t believe looking to move.

[JeffS17]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Elite or Solid?

Either or, definitely didn't mean to imply OG or Mikal are elite, although I think both have future all-star potential.  Would depend on what we gave up of course

[HawkItus]

Knee jerk yes.  But, thinking about how GA would fit I have to say no.  Trav has me sold on this 4 out spread the floor game.  Unless he learns to play 5 or develops a consistent 3, he impedes our guys more than he helps.  He is a Super Ben Simmons.  Se what we did with him on offense?

[AHF]

Just gotta say I think people are underrating Giannis on this thread.  He has averaged ~28.5 ppg on ~.630% TS% the last 3 years.

While he and his teammates have struggled more in the post-season, he is still putting up an average of 25.6 ppg, 13 rpg, 5.4 apg, 1 spg, 1.5 bpg over those last 3 years.  

He is also beastly on defense beyond just the great raw per game numbers on that end.  I wouldn't just shrug that kind of dominance off by comparing him to Ben Simmons or something.  I really think Trae would be fantastic for unlocking him and getting him better shots (or conversely getting Trae better shots).  It would be very tough for teams to scheme around Giannis and Trae especially with Hunter and Bogi able to do a bit of everything next to the two of them.  And the idea of Hunter, Giannis and Cap as a frontline on the defensive end of the floor is chef's kiss.

[Spud2nique]

49 minutes ago, AHF said:

Just gotta say I think people are underrating Giannis on this thread.  He has averaged ~28.5 ppg on ~.630% TS% the last 3 years.

While he and his teammates have struggled more in the post-season, he is still putting up an average of 25.6 ppg, 13 rpg, 5.4 apg, 1 spg, 1.5 bpg over those last 3 years.  

He is also beastly on defense beyond just the great raw per game numbers on that end.  I wouldn't just shrug that kind of dominance off by comparing him to Ben Simmons or something.  I really think Trae would be fantastic for unlocking him and getting him better shots (or conversely getting Trae better shots).  It would be very tough for teams to scheme around Giannis and Trae especially with Hunter and Bogi able to do a bit of everything next to the two of them.  And the idea of Hunter, Giannis and Cap as a frontline on the defensive end of the floor is chef's kiss.

I’m not underrating him one bit. But yes others seem to be. I have wanted this pairing for a couple years now I have a thread about it from when Trae was a rookie. 
 

Just what you said up there but I’ll add that all 5 would be high BBIQ specially Trae/Bogi/Giannis. When you have smart dudes playing together like that, things get really scary for the opposition.