Hawks draft pick grades (Jalen & Sharife)

[Atlantaholic]

On 8/3/2021 at 12:39 PM, AHF said:

As I think about what Sharife can be, I see him as a much better passer and playmaker than either Dennis or Sexton but not nearly as threatening a scorer as either of them.  I'd think of his long-term best case more along the lines of Rod Strickland or Jason Williams where you have very strong passers who develop decent but not great scoring games.  

To me he is Trae Young without a jumpshot. Pretty amazing we drafted both guys. 

[sturt]

38 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

STURT:  Another reason they recently fell from grace - They became Hawks.

 

Perhaps, but I wasn't talking about after they were drafted, Gray.

39 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Both had a pretty good showing in their 1st summer league game.

Jalen did,

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

To me he is Trae Young without a jumpshot. Pretty amazing we drafted both guys. 

Ya Cooper and Jalen were stand ins for Trae n JC.  Lite version but both ballers. Good picks.

[JayBirdHawk]

So it appears TS hit on these draftees.

[Spud2nique]

39 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So it appears TS hit on these draftees.

Indeed he strikes again!

[AHF]

14 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So it appears TS hit on these draftees.

They both showed a ton of promise in game 1 but my rule of thumb is that I don't take anything from summer league unless the player shows he doesn't belong.  Too many Dion Glovers look amazing in summer ball but can't handle it when we get back to the big leagues.  This is all about just getting some reps, some time with the coaches, and setting themselves up with a game plan for the staff for what they are going to work on until training camp arrives.  

I'm not going to have any more confidence that TS hit on these than I did on draft night (when I was very excited about both picks).  

Summer league is fun to watch but the rubber hits the road come game time next year.

[KB21]

50 minutes ago, AHF said:

They both showed a ton of promise in game 1 but my rule of thumb is that I don't take anything from summer league unless the player shows he doesn't belong.  Too many Dion Glovers look amazing in summer ball but can't handle it when we get back to the big leagues.  This is all about just getting some reps, some time with the coaches, and setting themselves up with a game plan for the staff for what they are going to work on until training camp arrives.  

I'm not going to have any more confidence that TS hit on these than I did on draft night (when I was very excited about both picks).  

Summer league is fun to watch but the rubber hits the road come game time next year.

In this instance, it's not so much the production that I'm looking at with these guys.  It's their athletic actions and the feel they show for what they are doing.  Even if Jalen Johnson had missed every shot, his body control and ability to move were on showcase.  

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

In this instance, it's not so much the production that I'm looking at with these guys.  It's their athletic actions and the feel they show for what they are doing.  Even if Jalen Johnson had missed every shot, his body control and ability to move were on showcase.  

That is fair but I got enough of that by watching their college games and pre-draft analysis that I don't think anything is going to change for me before I see them playing in real action.  It isn't that those things don't excite it so much as I was already excited by them.  That is why seeing them in summer league is fun for me more than insightful.  I just don't take much away from this format.

[thecampster]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

That is fair but I got enough of that by watching their college games and pre-draft analysis that I don't think anything is going to change for me before I see them playing in real action.  It isn't that those things don't excite it so much as I was already excited by them.  That is why seeing them in summer league is fun for me more than insightful.  I just don't take much away from this format.

It is the first time seeing them with a 3 second rule and having to run pick n' roll to free themselves up. Way more cutting, more 3 man basketball. There are a lot of high draft picks that struggle with the mental aspect of the NBA game.

In college, there are always 2 dude on the floor just heads and shoulders better than everyone else and 2 dudes that probably should be on the bench.  In the pros, even 10th man can play.  I mean throw Solo into a college game and he probably goes for 30 now. Its just different. This is a good showcase for who can take that step.

When a lot of guys get big points in summer league, its on volume shooting. Jalen was an efficient 8/12, 1/2 from 3.  That does show something.

[KB21]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

That is fair but I got enough of that by watching their college games and pre-draft analysis that I don't think anything is going to change for me before I see them playing in real action.  It isn't that those things don't excite it so much as I was already excited by them.  That is why seeing them in summer league is fun for me more than insightful.  I just don't take much away from this format.

I think in some cases, the player is now in a completely different setting than they were in college.  Yeah, you can still see the athletic actions and feel, but you could also be seeing a player who isn't really a good fit for what that college does.  

I do agree that you can't take much from these games, but Jalen was more impressive to me when I saw him in this setting than when I saw him in his limited college time.  

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, thecampster said:

It is the first time seeing them with a 3 second rule and having to run pick n' roll to free themselves up. Way more cutting, more 3 man basketball. There are a lot of high draft picks that struggle with the mental aspect of the NBA game.

In college, there are always 2 dude on the floor just heads and shoulders better than everyone else and 2 dudes that probably should be on the bench.  In the pros, even 10th man can play.  I mean throw Solo into a college game and he probably goes for 30 now. Its just different. This is a good showcase for who can take that step.

When a lot of guys get big points in summer league, its on volume shooting. Jalen was an efficient 8/12, 1/2 from 3.  That does show something.

All of this applies 100% to summer league.  A couple of guys way better than everyone else and most of the people won't even make an NBA roster.

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

All of this applies 100% to summer league.  A couple of guys way better than everyone else and most of the people won't even make an NBA roster.

Summer league the talent level across the board is better and much closer to the pros. Especially for your rookies you are usually competing against 2 other players who were rookies the last year and have 1 year of NBA play under their belt. Since the G league the level of play in the summer has tightened...especially defensively.

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Summer league the talent level across the board is better and much closer to the pros. Especially for your rookies you are usually competing against 2 other players who were rookies the last year and have 1 year of NBA play under their belt. Since the G league the level of play in the summer has tightened...especially defensively.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.  I see the level of play as being so far under standard NBA games as to render it much close to college than NBA regular season action.  So much easier for a non-NBA talent to step and excel there that I don't find much value in the results.  Just good exercise and a chance for the coaches to ID areas to work on.

[Gray Mule]

I watch no college ball.  This was my first time to see our draft picks.  I know, this is not real NBA ball but it was an opportunity to watch our two draft picks work together for the very first time.  A short time ago we all watched our Hawks in the playoffs.  Now, we get to watch the summer league.

Life is good.  God has blessed us abundantly!  And, pre season NBA is just around the corner.

Braves in 2nd place.  Falcons play Friday night.  Summer league is right now!  Enjoy !!

[sturt]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

Too many Dion Glovers look amazing in summer ball but can't handle it when we get back to the big leagues.  This is all about just getting some reps, some time with the coaches, and setting themselves up with a game plan for the staff for what they are going to work on until training camp arrives.  

I'm not going to have any more confidence that TS hit on these than I did on draft night (when I was very relatively excited about both picks).  

Summer league is fun to watch but the rubber hits the road come game time next year.

[Peoriabird]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

Too many Dion Glovers look amazing in summer ball but can't handle it when we get back to the big leagues.

Why does the ghost of Dion Glover continue to appear every time a Hawks player has a good summer league game?  IF you are going to make a comparison, at least compare apples to apples.  Glove was a 3rd year player when he was Summer league MVP not a 19 year old rookie.  He was actually not good in his 1st year summer league year.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Why does the ghost of Dion Glover continue to appear every time a Hawks player has a good summer league game?  IF you are going to make a comparison, at least compare apples to apples.  Glove was a 3rd year player when he was Summer league MVP not a 19 year old rookie.  He was actually not good in his 1st year summer league year.

This applies to all summer league ball.  It isn't meaningful.  It isn't just Dion Glover.  It certainly also doesn't mean a guy won't be a star.  But you have summer league stars like Sebastian Telfair, Von Wafer, Al Thorton, Dominique Jones, Jermaine Taylor, Sam Young, Donatas Motiejunas, Tyus Jones, Dennis Smith, Josh Jackson, Kevin Knox, etc. 

Again, this isn't specific to Dion Glover.  He is just a former Hawk.  From what I've seen, I'm not convinced that summer league success or failure means much as far as a player's future prospects.  A guy like Trae is still a good prospect even if he struggles.  A guy like Tyus Jones isn't a superstar in the making just because he was SL MVP.  

Summer league is fun.  It is some nice entertaining exhibition play during the down time of the year.  But it doesn't mean much due to (among other reasons) the small sample size, the lack of organization and the inconsistent and generally low (relative to NBA) level of competition.  

[RedDawg#8]

41 minutes ago, AHF said:

This applies to all summer league ball.  It isn't meaningful.  It isn't just Dion Glover.  It certainly also doesn't mean a guy won't be a star.  But you have summer league stars like Sebastian Telfair, Von Wafer, Al Thorton, Dominique Jones, Jermaine Taylor, Sam Young, Donatas Motiejunas, Tyus Jones, Dennis Smith, Josh Jackson, Kevin Knox, etc. 

Again, this isn't specific to Dion Glover.  He is just a former Hawk.  From what I've seen, I'm not convinced that summer league success or failure means much as far as a player's future prospects.  A guy like Trae is still a good prospect even if he struggles.  A guy like Tyus Jones isn't a superstar in the making just because he was SL MVP.  

Summer league is fun.  It is some nice entertaining exhibition play during the down time of the year.  But it doesn't mean much due to (among other reasons) the small sample size, the lack of organization and the inconsistent and generally low (relative to NBA) level of competition.  

I think there are several factors that contribute to why players don't work out in the league. Half of which have to do with the franchise and how they handle (or mishandle) a young prospect. Injuries play a big part, and then the off the court factors.

But, as it relates to the on-court ability, I think there is a lot one can derive from Summer League.

I think you should always ignore hype, and pay closer attention to traits like confidence, consistency, awareness, energy, fit, and IQ. Those things can show up fast and you see who has the mental makeup to be successful. Even if a player has a bad showing, it provides the blueprint for what they need to work on going forward. 

You don't base entire careers off of it. But you get an idea of what you have today and how close/far a player is to being able to contribute to your roster. Whether you have a role for them now, or if you should plan on filling it with a vet. 

It's another avenue to scout these guys that won't be on the court as much come the regular season. It bridges the gap from the draft combine with a bunch of prospects and the preseason with vets competing to make a roster. It's a tool, that has become increasingly more entertaining. One that in the Dion Glover days not every player took seriously, but now these guys look at it as a serious opportunity to showcase themselves.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Dexmethylphenidate]

Why is there so much noise (players talking) in summer league play but we don't hear it in real nba broadcast