Not basketball. Not light-hearted. Not politics. And since we don't have a forum dedicated to "being human" I'm just putting this here.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

Interesting note on what's going on over there. Media outlets are reporting that the Ukranians are letting people out of jail who agree to fight for Ukraine, effectively commuting their sentences and arming them.

Think about how weird/wild that is....enemy of the state / prisoner of the state becomes defender of the state.

Not that strange...  a little bit like the chain gang. 

[swanlee]

On 2/26/2022 at 11:13 AM, bleachkit said:

Sadly, some Americans are siding with Vlad the conqueror in this conflict. Truly astonishing.

We have really exposed a large percentage of nut jobs living in this country the last 6 years, I really hope they eventually come to their senses but they probably will not.

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, thecampster said:

Interesting note on what's going on over there. Media outlets are reporting that the Ukranians are letting people out of jail who agree to fight for Ukraine, effectively commuting their sentences and arming them.

Think about how weird/wild that is....enemy of the state / prisoner of the state becomes defender of the state.

Dirty dozen.

[ShooterSays]

On 2/26/2022 at 11:13 AM, bleachkit said:

Sadly, some Americans are siding with Vlad the conqueror in this conflict. Truly astonishing.

Would be interested to know who these people are or if this is just a case of our "media" trying to sow dissension. Because of the 500+ twitter accounts I follow and all my Facebook friends, I've not seen 1 person siding with the Russians on this.

[ShooterSays]

1 hour ago, swanlee said:

We have really exposed a large percentage of nut jobs living in this country the last 6 years, I really hope they eventually come to their senses but they probably will not.

Again, have not seen 1 American who sides with Putin and the Russians on this.

But for your comment of, "nut jobs living in this country the last 6 years"- to me this reads, "If you don't agree with me, your political views and beliefs are wrong and you're a nut job REEEEEEE...."

You're trying to cause disagreements when literally everyone in this country is united in supporting Ukraine. 

[thecampster]

I want this post to stay up. Can we make sure not to politicize this please? I don't want it moved to the Politics forum.  Current Affairs do not have to equal Politics.

I'd rather a whole lot of smart people on this forum get a chance to share what they've heard/learned than to point fingers.

Edited February 28, 2022 by thecampster

[sturt]

19 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I want this post to stay up. Can we make sure not to politicize this please? I don't want it moved to the Politics forum.  Current Affairs do not have to equal Politics.

[bleachkit]

2 hours ago, ShooterSays said:

Would be interested to know who these people are or if this is just a case of our "media" trying to sow dissension. Because of the 500+ twitter accounts I follow and all my Facebook friends, I've not seen 1 person siding with the Russians on this.

You probably have a fair point. Most likely it's a very small minority siding with Russia.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

You probably have a fair point. Most likely it's a very small minority siding with Russia.

A small minority with a loud voice that gets amplified by other media outlets that report on this stuff because it is so outrageous.

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

I want this post to stay up. Can we make sure not to politicize this please? I don't want it moved to the Politics forum.  Current Affairs do not have to equal Politics.

I'd rather a whole lot of smart people on this forum get a chance to share what they've heard/learned than to point fingers.

Yep.  Let's leave the analysis around our politicians and media who have made pro-Putin comments to the Politics forum.  Plenty enough going on to discuss without diving into the aspects of US politics in this forum.  

This isn't a Homecourt issue per se but if people can behave then I'm fine leaving it up for the time being as this rapidly develops.

[JayBirdHawk]

Ex-NBA Toure Murry fled Ukraine amid Russian incursion

Fighting had erupted in Ukraine. Former NBA player Toure’ Murry was still in the western city of Ternipol, Ukraine, where he played for professional basketball team BC Ternipol. He needed to get out of the country, and that wasn’t easy. Though fighting had not consumed Ternipol, he said missiles landed in a city two hours away. “It was difficult and confusing because my city was pretty far away from all the action that was going on in the beginning, but everything escalated pretty fast,” Murry told USA TODAY Sports. “I got a call from my team telling me it was pretty serious, and they had a car waiting.”

 

– via Jeff Zillgitt @ USA Today Sports

 Top Rumors, Free Agency, Russia, Ukraine, Toure Murry

 

Murry got in the car on Friday but didn’t know where he was going. “There was risk of going to the Poland border and getting sent back. There was no guarantees,” Murry said. “So we took a leap of faith going through Romania. It worked out in terms of getting across the border. But going through the situation, we had no idea if we would get out.” After a 4-½-hour car ride to the Romanian border, Murry took a train to Bucharest and then flew to Amsterdam and home to Houston. That wasn’t the end of his worry. His brother, Yanick Murry, is an assistant coach with BC Budivelnyk in Kyiv, the site of an intense battle between Russians and Ukrainians. He just left the country on Sunday, fleeing to Warsaw, Poland. “His experience has been really, really tough,” Murry said. “He barely made it out.”

 

– via Jeff Zillgitt @ USA Today Sports

[kg01]

I still don't quite understand why this is happening.  Like, even if it was essentially "just" a border dispute, why did it skip over conferences and talking allllllll the way to killing women and children - which is basically what this is at this point?

And why do they think this should be ok with everybody else.  There are no more isolationists.  The economy is truly global at this point.  And any country can be cut out if it to the extreme detriment of their own people.  Why/how is this worth it?

And who's supportive of this move?  How are they justifying it?  Actual question, not rhetoric.  Speaking not of random twitter but more speaking of folks who've come out on record seemingly impressed by this (trying not to make it political by saying a name).

[AHF]

44 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I still don't quite understand why this is happening.  Like, even if it was essentially "just" a border dispute, why did it skip over conferences and talking allllllll the way to killing women and children - which is basically what this is at this point?

To me, saying it is a border dispute is a very flimsy justification for what is an obvious naked power grab much like with Crimea.  Russia just grabbing territories that broke away following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[kg01]

25 minutes ago, AHF said:

To me, saying it is a border dispute is a very flimsy justification for what is an obvious naked power grab much like with Crimea.  Russia just grabbing territories that broke away following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Agreed.  But what does Ukraine have (natural resources?) that justifies this?

This is me trying to follow the money.  Otherwise, this is just early stage Hitler, no?

[AHF]

32 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Agreed.  But what does Ukraine have (natural resources?) that justifies this?

This is me trying to follow the money.  Otherwise, this is just early stage Hitler, no?

Not sure what the calculus looks like as far as a return on investment.  I guess I'm viewing it as a former KGB agent trying to reclaim what was part of the USSR that he views as rightfully the property of Russia.  Probably sends a very loud message to (a) any other former USSR entity that Russia decides to reclaim (come quietly or get ready for us to invade) and (b) any Russia territory that would ever think of trying to declare independence.

[kg01]

38 minutes ago, AHF said:

Not sure what the calculus looks like as far as a return on investment.  I guess I'm viewing it as a former KGB agent trying to reclaim what was part of the USSR that he views as rightfully the property of Russia.  Probably sends a very loud message to (a) any other former USSR entity that Russia decides to reclaim (come quietly or get ready for us to invade) and (b) any Russia territory that would ever think of trying to declare independence.

All true.  Sad for the Russian people because they'll be the ones paying the price for this.  And, of course, the Ukrainian people are suffering most rn.

And agree with your (b).  This feels like a beginning, not an end.  "Beginnings" like this have led to large scale war in previous times.  All so senseless.

[JayBirdHawk]

BBC News:

Ukraine has fought back much harder during the first week than Vladimir Putin expected, or very probably than his generals promised him, it would. But these are still the early stages of what could be a very nasty war.

Putin must have hoped that a few days after Russian forces invaded, Kyiv would have fallen. And he surely expected that Western countries, cowed and divided, would have accepted that he had reclaimed a territory that he says is historically part of Russia.

None of this has happened. Ukraine has proved a hard nut to crack, and the reaction of Western countries, particularly Germany, has been far fiercer than he thought. Russia's economy has already been savagely hit. Putin's one big friend, China, now seems worried that this Western upsurge of anger might, one day, be turned against China itself - and that serious damage could be done to the Chinese economy. It has already distanced itself from the invasion.

Nato, by contrast, might be strengthened. Finland and Sweden could both end up joining the alliance for their own protection. Putin launched this war in part to stop Ukraine one day joining Nato, but he could find more Nato members on his north-western border.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Agreed.  But what does Ukraine have (natural resources?) that justifies this?

This is me trying to follow the money.  Otherwise, this is just early stage Hitler, no?

Ukraine was on the brink of Joining NATO. 

Once that happened, they would be subject to NATO's protections and allegiances. 

One school of thought is that Putin was trying to prevent that joining because if that happened, you would have from Finland/Norway to the Black Sea all under European influence...and that would be just about ~500 miles from Moscow.  Russia would be somewhat handcuffed by European non-allies.   That's why you see Putin talking about the West.  The West.. Not so much USA, but really Ukraine, Poland, Germany, and Lithuania.    Not to mention, Norway, Sweden, Latvia and Finland.   Then to the Southwest... Turkey. 

The scary part is the quietness of China.