The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, Dean Walker said:

I can understand it tbh.

Nobody on the Knicks is better than him.

They’re would be a clear pecking order here though. This is Trae’s team. I think he would easily accept a secondary/6th man type of role here.

I would never assume that.  Definitely not for a guy that got MVP votes and a max contract a year ago.

8 minutes ago, BangHolman said:

As mentioned in the latest update, the Hawks really have to do their due diligence on Randle in terms of scouting. He's a dog on the court, which we need on the roster, but we don't need a negative attitude in the locker room. There seemed to be times he went there when he wasn't "the guy" and he won't be that here.

That's the thing though.  He's decidedly NOT a "dog on the court".  He was that when the refs were calling soft fouls.  Once the physicality got ramped up, he turned into a kitten.

His one good year was an outlier.  The Knicks made the mistake of buying into it.  Let's not be the 2nd team to do it.

[NBASupes]

20 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

I think you said earlier getting 2/3 between LaVine, Ayton, and Gobert was priority.

Seems like Ayton is VERY realistic. Do you get the sense that we'd still pursue a LaVine deal IF we can make it work under the cap difficulties?

It's going to be difficult. Atlanta with Gallo contract is currently at 3.8 above the LT. Add 3.4 16th to sign and 3 spots to fill. 

In other words, Gallo and JC for LaVine would save us a lot but that deal would hurt Chicago as money wise 44.9 mil for 36.5 is too much. It would have to be Bogi and JC which saves us 5 million. That's huge. Means we can add we are over the LT by only 2.2 million. 

Assuming we do a Capela/JJ/and another team non guaranteed contract deal for Ayton. That 22.5 which is 2.4 mil extra. 

Its not possible. Gallo is a tough cookie. You let him go, you can likely do these deals but you would have to trade Bogi or Kevin for sure. No other way around it. Gallo has to go realistically.

Edited May 27, 2022 by NBASupes

[BangHolman]

7 minutes ago, Dean Walker said:

Again who do the Knicks have that’s better than Julius? Rj? Maybe eventually but definitely not now.

So of course he would get mad and pout when players who aren’t better than him taking shots.

Trae would be the same way if Hunter was waving him off to jack up shots and isolate.

And that's where the scouting comes in. Is that who he is?

[sturt]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

I would never assume that.  Definitely not for a guy that got MVP votes and a max contract a year ago.

That's the thing though.  He's decidedly NOT a "dog on the court".  He was that when the refs were calling soft fouls.  Once the physicality got ramped up, he turned into a kitten.

His one good year was an outlier.  The Knicks made the mistake of buying into it.  Let's not be the 2nd team to do it.

Had acknowledged your theory was worthy of further investigation, and had said I'd be more interested to see that happen if it ever rose to the possibility of happening.

Someone should investigate to see if the theory is valid. But I'm not in a place right now to be the one to do that... maybe you could?

[ShooterSays]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's going to be difficult. Atlanta with Gallo contract is currently at 3.8 above the LT. Add 3.4 16th to sign and 3 spots to fill. 

In other words, Gallo and JC for LaVine would save us a lot but that deal would hurt Chicago as money wise 44.9 mil for 36.5 is too much. It would have to be Bogi and JC which saves us 5 million. That's huge. Means we can add we are over the LT by only 2.2 million. 

Assuming we do a Capela/JJ/and another team non guaranteed contract deal for Ayton. That 22.5 which is 2.4 mil extra. 

Its not possible. Gallo is a tough cookie. You let him go, you can likely do these deals but you would have to trade Bogi or Kevin for sure. No other way around it. Gallo has to go realistically.

Do you think they're doing their due diligence on a Gallo for Randle swap in case they have to include JC (and Bogi) in a LaVine S&T?

Trae/LaVine/Hunter/Randle/Ayton

[sturt]

For those who are thinking out loud about salary cap issues, this is, indeed, "too early," but it does give you some idea of what we're looking at... and with the caveat that Trae added about $6m to his salary shortly after this was first posted...

 

[NBASupes]

Just now, ShooterSays said:

Do you think they're doing their due diligence on a Gallo for Randle swap in case they have to include JC (and Bogi) in a LaVine S&T?

Trae/LaVine/Hunter/Randle/Ayton

He said they are doing their due diligence. They are looking into everything. Like Everything

[kg01]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

Had acknowledged your theory was worthy of further investigation, and had said I'd be more interested to see that happen if it ever rose to the possibility of happening.

Someone should investigate to see if the theory is valid. But I'm not in a place right now to be the one to do that... maybe you could?

Not willing to take my word for it?  That stings, stu.  Not really.  But I'm also not sure what "research" can be done other than film study.

Guy's free throws were clearly down and his shooting percentages suffered as well.  Pattern matches each player that was impacted by the "new" foul rules.  It was also clear which guys adjusted and which ones didn't.  The ones who didn't adjust, imho, either struggled with the physicality or lacked the actual skill to overcome it.  Randle was clearly both, imho.

[JeffS17]

23 minutes ago, AHF said:

In a way, it could work well to have Randle taking control of the offense on the second team somewhat like we effectively employed Bogi this year.  There will always be about 15 minutes of time when Trae isn't on the floor and there is some appeal to a Wright at PG (where he is a hugely positive player but not really someone who runs the offense) and Randle at point forward dynamic for those minutes.  (Obviously, Randle would also play with Trae.)

 

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

As sturt and I discussed on his Randle threat, whether Randle comes off the bench or not he would be more attractive if his shot profile more strongly resembled the inside focus he had with the Pelicans than what we've seen the last few years.

 

Hard no on Randle.  The hardest no... the guy does not play winning basketball.  He's getting paid nearly max money and we're talking about adding him to run the bench unit?? No no no no no no no I'd honestly rather have anyone other than randle.  Give me a vet min player that isn't toxic in and out of the locker room.  Give me a hungry rookie who has never played NBA minutes.  Give JJ those minutes.  I'd be happier with @Spud2nique on the roster hyping the guys up in the locker room.  Randle is a low BBIQ chucker -- we exposed him in the playoffs.  He's not worth anything because he's not going to help us win, much less $25-30M.  Nooooooooo!  Delete all Randle trade ideas!!!!!!

[Dean Walker]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

 

 

Hard no on Randle.  The hardest no... the guy does not play winning basketball.  He's getting paid nearly max money and we're talking about adding him to run the bench unit?? No no no no no no no I'd honestly rather have anyone other than randle.  Give me a vet min player that isn't toxic in and out of the locker room.  Give me a hungry rookie who has never played NBA minutes.  Give JJ those minutes.  I'd be happier with @Spud2nique on the roster hyping the guys up in the locker room.  Randle is a low BBIQ chucker -- we exposed him in the playoffs.  He's not worth anything because he's not going to help us win, much less $25-30M.  Nooooooooo!  Delete all Randle trade ideas!!!!!!

Here’s the thing I would agree with you if we were giving premium/decent assets.

It’s a straight swap for Gallo.

That’s an absolute no brainer!

[sturt]

10 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Not willing to take my word for it?  That stings, stu.  Not really.  But I'm also not sure what "research" can be done other than film study.

Took your word for it that it's a decent working theory.   But yeah... I agree... someone needs to do some film study, naturally, since the theory itself suggests a pattern that seemingly would require some eyeballing of several examples.

 

Think most all would agree that the guy was frustrated, so that gives the theory some legs. But there are other theories that might be a better explanation for what regression he experienced.

And just to re-state my perspective on it... he doesn't have to be All-Star Randle to be a super-important piece of the puzzle. But as @AHF asserts, yes, he cannot be "Chuck" Randle. He's got to play to his strengths.

[NBASupes]

I just texted my guy and he said Gallinari can still be moved before the next season begins. 

@thecampster, he's confirming this. What about you?

He texted me this: For teams that do not make the playoffs, they can start making trades again on the day after their last regular season game. Playoff teams can start making trades once they're eliminated from the playoffs.

 

He said Gallo has to be moved before June 29th or his deal is fully guaranteed 

Edited May 27, 2022 by NBASupes

[sturt]

12 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Guy's free throws were clearly down and his shooting percentages suffered as well.

I failed to add... and just adding to the the "plausible theories" list...

Isn't the most logical first-take on that... the guy settled for outside shots?

(That's not the same thing as saying he got frustrated b/c he wasn't getting calls.)

[JeffS17]

11 minutes ago, Dean Walker said:

Here’s the thing I would agree with you if we were giving premium/decent assets.

It’s a straight swap for Gallo.

That’s an absolute no brainer!

Randle is signed through like 2026.  I'd rather trade Gallo for an expiring and have $20M of dead cap next season than be locked into the Randle experience for the next 4 years.  That guys trade value is going to be going down too, not up.  He peaked in the 2020 regular season -- I still cannot believe he got that horrific contract

[ShooterSays]

From the teams mentioned in the Ayton sweepstakes, I think ATL has the most attractive offer if PHO is looking for a Center who can help them win now.

One team not mentioned though is the Jazz. I think both teams would benefit in a Gobert for Ayton swap if they can make the cap work.

[sturt]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I just texted my guy and he said Gallinari can still be moved before the next season begins. 

@thecampster, he's confirming this. What about you?

He texted me this: For teams that do not make the playoffs, they can start making trades again on the day after their last regular season game. Playoff teams can start making trades once they're eliminated from the playoffs.

 

He said Gallo has to be moved before June 29th or his deal is fully guaranteed 

They make trades. We know that. Yes.

They just don't become official until 7/1.

We also know that. That's why their next season salary is what matters to the salary cap equation.

Again. We did this... Prince was traded weeks ahead of the draft... but recall that on draft night, NOP technically drafted Hunter, and we got him after the new season began. Everything was agreed to. It was a technicality.

And Gallo has to be moved before 6/29 if we want to move him to a team taking him for the $5m in order to shave off a few mil off their spreadsheet... ie, they can trade as much as a $8.85m player, and save $3.85m.

Not real likely, of course, b/c it's not that much of a savings.

 

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

Randle is signed through like 2026.  I'd rather trade Gallo for an expiring and have $20M of dead cap next season than be locked into the Randle experience for the next 4 years.  That guys trade value is going to be going down too, not up.  He peaked in the 2020 regular season -- I still cannot believe he got that horrific contract

Or just keep Gallo.   He didn't show much decline at all last season.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

They make trades. We know that. Yes.

They just don't become official until 7/1.

We also know that. That's why their next season salary is what matters to the salary cap equation.

Again. We did this... Prince was traded weeks ahead of the draft... but recall that on draft night, NOP technically drafted Hunter, and we got him after the new season began. Everything was agreed to. It was a technicality.

And Gallo has to be moved before 6/29 if we want to move him to a team taking him for the $5m in order to shave off a few mil off their spreadsheet... ie, they can trade as much as a $8.85m player, and save $3.85m.

Not real likely, of course, b/c it's not that much of a savings.

 

Prince was traded for the next calendar year. Whereas Gallinari would be traded for this calendar year which you can still trade for. 

 

For example, the Hunter trade was for the next calendar year. If you make a trade in the current calendar year, its official right then and there.

Luke Rideour is the primary example. This was not closed. The NBA still allow this. Cleveland attempted it with J.R. Smith years back

Edited May 27, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

From the teams mentioned in the Ayton sweepstakes, I think ATL has the most attractive offer if PHO is looking for a Center who can help them win now.

One team not mentioned though is the Jazz. I think both teams would benefit in a Gobert for Ayton swap if they can make the cap work.

Money is the big reason why they are moving from Ayton. Gobert makes a lot more. 

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Randle is signed through like 2026.  I'd rather trade Gallo for an expiring and have $20M of dead cap next season than be locked into the Randle experience for the next 4 years.  That guys trade value is going to be going down too, not up.  He peaked in the 2020 regular season -- I still cannot believe he got that horrific contract

I get the recoil. But you're going a bit nuts here when you go that far. Randle's not always been an All-Star, but he has always been a strong contributor on the court. And yeah, I get the concern about his head, but again, I think it's a little more understandable in the context of him being in NYK and with their success largely riding on his shoulders. He's not that guy who seems up to that level of production and leadership. But just because he's not that doesn't mean he doesn't bring some considerable benefits to the table... and that, in other contexts, are more clear (LA, NOLA) than others. To the contrary, he does bring considerable benefits to the table.