The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

Actually the fit is with Capela.  Because Capela is no threat outside of 5 feet, his man can cheat whenever JC posts and can ignore Clint if he drifts from the basket to give JC room to work. A stretch 5 would pull the center away allowing JC's faceup/post game to be useful.

Exactly.  Was going to post the same thing.  JC has been great with Trae.  It is how to fit him with Cap that is the challenge.

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I mean, everything was bad against Miami

Yeah, but what was really good that turned really bad? 

[RandomFan]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Defensively, I think JC and Capela is fine as a pairing. The problem is, is Trae. He needs so much support on that damn end. 

Yes, that's what I said, lol. The presence of Trae makes the JC and CC pairing on defense not viable. If our starting PG was someone like Marcus Smart, then defensively that paring would be passable (although obviously our offense would suffer greatly). 

This is one of the main reasons I'm willing to try Big O at the 4 if we can add Ayton, who can play a stretch 5 on offense. Because Big O can defend 1 thru 5 on the perimeter, and hopefully he can add enough offensive range this offseason to not kill us on that side of the ball. But ONLY if we add a stretch 5. Otherwise Big O should still be our center of the future, possibly as soon as next season. 

If we keep CC then I'm 100% in favor of trading for J. Grant to improve our team fit at the 4. Bring up rebounds all you want, I DON'T CARE. 

JJ isn't ready to be a starter anywhere yet, not until he proves himself defensively. 

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

Then you don't understand Basketball.  Or atleast not Hawks basketball. 

Trae is a transcendent player.   But he must have a few things.  And we're never going to get around this..

1.  PNR/PNP basketball. 

Trae is not Iverson who will give up his body for the score inside.  Trae is not Steph, who can shoot the lights out until the lane opens up for him.   Trae has a lot of Nash in him.  But Nash couldn't score like Trae.   The Trae Young goat float is predicated on the ability for him to make the PNR/PNP a constant threat. 

We found the problem with OO.  He is not great on the PNR.   He has a need to bring the ball  back down everytime he gets it.  It kills the PNR... when you watch Clint and when you watch JC.. they are experts at flying high and catching the lob...  We run it through double screens, we run it through back doors, and we run it through regular PNRs.  It was painful watching OO trying to do it because ultimately he would always come down with it.  Once.. he showed that he could finish without coming down.. I believe it shocked him.  It was in our win vs. Miami.   But that's once all season. 

2.  Outside threat.

I don't get why people are so in a hurry to trade JC.  His Near 40% from three makes him our Kevin Love.   He stretches defenses simply by being out there.   This gives the PNR room to work and it also opens the floor for Hunter whenever he gets his ass off the three point line. 

 

What we beat Philly and NY with in the playoffs last year was this type of play which creating spacing for Trae to work all of his magic. 

We beat us against Miami was the lack of this kind of spacing and gave Miami the ability to key in on Trae with Three defenders at all times. 

So we get Ayton and move OO to PF as some want to do.  OO has never hit a three point and has only shot 3 in his pro career.  So he's not going to stretch the floor.  He's not a good PNR partner yet... and that nuisance is a nuisance.   Not every player can be a finisher on the PNR.  It's reserved for guy who attack the basket...

 

 

1. He's elite at movement but he does have to work on timing in general. For screens, when to come off a screen, when to attack a roll, when to jump, etc. JC was an insanely fast learner at this. Took him a half a season to build mastery with Dennis. Capela had to work. He spend a lot of time with Harden and eventually with CP3 till the point he became a PnR master in Houston. 

OO has to grow into it. The movement is already there as the metrics indicate. 

2. Defense. It's that simple. Defense. He's a good defender but we need a great one. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Yes, that's what I said, lol. The presence of Trae makes the JC and CC pairing on defense not viable. If our starting PG was someone like Marcus Smart, then defensively that paring would be passable (although obviously our offense would suffer greatly). 

This is one of the main reasons I'm willing to try Big O at the 4 if we can add Ayton, who can play a stretch 5 on offense. Because Big O can defend 1 thru 5 on the perimeter, and hopefully he can add enough offensive range this offseason to not kill us on that side of the ball. But ONLY if we add a stretch 5. Otherwise Big O should still be our center of the future, possibly as soon as next season. 

If we keep CC then I'm 100% in favor of trading for J. Grant to improve our team fit at the 4. Bring up rebounds all you want, I DON'T CARE. 

JJ isn't ready to be a starter anywhere yet, not until he proves himself defensively. 

Only problem with OO at the 4 is even with development, no way can Capela and OO be a good offensive pairing. Too limited.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Exactly.  Was going to post the same thing.  JC has been great with Trae.  It is how to fit him with Cap that is the challenge.

The problem is, Trae can't win or go off with spamming JC as he can with spamming Clint. It's a lot easier to beat fives than fours and when JC was the 5. Teams abused us in the paint and we had a horrendous defense. 

[Ropadope]

17 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

A good defender at the 2 can offset the need for elite defense at the 4/5.

For instance, Trae, Delon, Dre, JC, Ayton is 4 good to great defenders next to Trae. OO is the first big off the bench. Whichever wing we keep between Kev and Bogi goes in for Trae and Delon moves to PG. That is a solid defensive unit 

Heck, we had Clint and still struggled defensively. It wasn't because the Center was weak, it was because the guards were. Were we not a better defense when Kev was locked in last season?

Upgrade perimeter defense and the entire profile of the team rises.

I would be just fine if we added Ayton for Capela and assets and added a bucket getter off the bench.

I'm fine with losing Bogi, Kev, Gallo, or #16. 

 

 

I definitely agree here. If you get an offensive center like Ayton, you attempt to use your best trade piece in JC to upgrade perimeter defense and shooting. Is that player out there? Will JC be the asset coveted? JJ, OO, and Ayton would be a nice front court if you can upgrade another weakness. 

[warcore]

35 minutes ago, Dean Walker said:

I can go on and on supe lol!

Do it. This is hilarious. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

The problem is, Trae can't win or go off with spamming JC as he can with spamming Clint. It's a lot easier to beat fives than fours and when JC was the 5. Teams abused us in the paint and we had a horrendous defense. 

Offensively, I think Trae and JC is significantly better than Trae and CC.  Defense is the reason for CC pure and simple.  Trae makes the best of CC’s limited offensive skillset but the spacing isn’t there to allow Trae to do as much pnr with JC as you’d like because CC is useless when more than a couple feet from the rim (or running action to get him there) and worse than useless teams ignore him and open up junk defenses and easy doubles if we try to feature JC in the lane with CC on the floor.

[warcore]

31 minutes ago, Dean Walker said:

Yeah because I believe Tobias and Julius can carry an offense from time to time and jc can’t.

Part of your issue with JC is his contract..... yet you don't have that issue with Tobias and Julius??? Are you aware? Those are arguably the two most overpaid players in the entire league. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Dean Walker said:

Collins for 7 and Bledsoe!

draft sharpe!

trae & sharpe core will be deadly in 2-3 years!

I got it on good authority..  I told yall this weeks ago...

Bogi/16  to Detroit  Grant to PTL   Bledsoe and #7 our way...

[Diesel]

52 minutes ago, Dean Walker said:

7. Randle

8.Tobias 

9.Draymond

10.Mobley 

I can go on and on supe lol!

What's your basis here??

Because now you're getting disrespectful. 

[Diesel]

39 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

 Today's NBA is about defending the perimeter

This is the point that most posters here miss.  They won't address the problem. 

 

[Diesel]

30 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

 

If we keep CC then I'm 100% in favor of trading for J. Grant to improve our team fit at the 4. Bring up rebounds all you want, I DON'T CARE. 

 

The first step in defense is rebounding.  You're asking for a very strong and capable offensive team.. getting blown out every night because they give up 2nd and 3rd chance points. 

 

[Diesel]

21 minutes ago, AHF said:

Offensively, I think Trae and JC is significantly better than Trae and CC.  Defense is the reason for CC pure and simple.  Trae makes the best of CC’s limited offensive skillset but the spacing isn’t there to allow Trae to do as much pnr with JC as you’d like because CC is useless when more than a couple feet from the rim (or running action to get him there) and worse than useless teams ignore him and open up junk defenses and easy doubles if we try to feature JC in the lane with CC on the floor.

All I know is that last year, our offense was a lot more open than it is now.  What happened to the backdoor cuts and the double screens?

 

[marco102]

29 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

The problem is, Trae can't win or go off with spamming JC as he can with spamming Clint. It's a lot easier to beat fives than fours and when JC was the 5. Teams abused us in the paint and we had a horrendous defense. 

We had a horrendous defense last year.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

All I know is that last year, our offense was a lot more open than it is now.  What happened to the backdoor cuts and the double screens?

 

 Nate made some changes that a lot of us didn’t particularly like.  I’d attribute it to Nate’s imprint on the offense.

[Dean Walker]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

What's your basis here??

Because now you're getting disrespectful. 

I’m just not a fan of JC!

very good energy big that struggles to create offense for himself!

Not a top 3 guy on a legit contender!

[Dean Walker]

29 minutes ago, warcore said:

Part of your issue with JC is his contract..... yet you don't have that issue with Tobias and Julius??? Are you aware? Those are arguably the two most overpaid players in the entire league. 

Ok Tobias is debatable I’ll give you that!

But Julius is making less than Jc while being the significantly better Talent!

Randle won’t even make 30 mil a year in his new contract!

He’ll make 25mil,27mil,29mil in the final year!

how is that a bad contract??

It sure as hell is a better contract than Jc’s imo!

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, Dean Walker said:

Ok Tobias is debatable I’ll give you that!

But Julius is making less than Jc while being the significantly better Talent!

Randle won’t even make 30 mil a year in his new contract!

He’ll make 25mil,27mil,29mil in the final year!

how is that a bad contract??

It sure as hell is a better contract than Jc’s imo!

Randle is not making less than JC. Look at his contract starting next year. It's awful and the fact that it's even close is problematic as has limited impact on winning.