Upgrade coming per Schlenk

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

Crowder, to be happy here, must start.

Disagree, but then again, my working theory is that there's player reconnaissance going on right now, headed by chief investigator Rayford Trae Young.

 

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

If we're going to do the swap, we should, therefore, send them our starter.  Is this possible?  Yes, it is.  Is it reasonable?  You decide.

Wait. You're suggesting trading JC for Crowder?

First, no, it's a $25m salary for a $10m salary, so it's not possible. It would have to be a much larger trade than that for the salaries to match up, of course.

Second, put me down in the hard pass column. That's not even barely a consideration for me.

[Diesel]

11 hours ago, sturt said:

If you assume it's down to one trading partner, then yeah, they're at a disadvantage.

That's a big assumption, though.

I'd think it's more likely there's enough competition to allow them to get something in the range of FMV.

Nah...

What I mean is that everybody knows that he's not with the team.   In this circumstance, Phoenix has nothing in Crowder.   NOBODY is going to give Phoenix a lot for what has become nothing for them.   They really don't have a strong negotiation place... A strong place for them would be, "well, we will just go on with Crowder".   BUT.. since he's not even with the team, for them to get something in place of this nothing makes more sense.   So he can be had on the cheap.   There will be no war for teams that are interested either.   He's not Lebron. 

 

[Diesel]

11 hours ago, marco102 said:

He must have done something to impress them in training camp and the off season. JJ's passing and ability to handle the ball at the four could be huge for the Hawks.  If he's stepped up his defense, there's no way I trade him for Crowder.

To me, this could be either he impressed or they're prepping him for trade. 

[Diesel]

11 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

I thought the whole reason Crowder wants out of Phx was because they want to start Cam Johnson and Crowder wants to start. He isn't starting here so why would he want to come and extend? 

I like him as a player but I don't see how his situation fits the Hawks. And I don't see an easy trade for him. I'm not interested in giving away JJ. 

So much to negotiate with this.

Did he feel disrespected...  Obviously. 

I think media runs with he wants to be a starter.   Maybe it's as simple as he wants a clear role and they disrespected him.   Before even thinking about making a trade, I would let him know that Dre is the starting 3.   However, he will play lots of minutes as a BU. 

I'm not running with the he bitched up because he wasn't starting.  I think it's more to it than that. 

 

 

[sturt]

20 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Nah...

What I mean is that everybody knows that he's not with the team.   In this circumstance, Phoenix has nothing in Crowder.   NOBODY is going to give Phoenix a lot for what has become nothing for them.   They really don't have a strong negotiation place... A strong place for them would be, "well, we will just go on with Crowder".   BUT.. since he's not even with the team, for them to get something in place of this nothing makes more sense.   So he can be had on the cheap.   There will be no war for teams that are interested either.   He's not Lebron. 

 

Law of supply and demand, my friend.

Even a 5-day-old loaf of bread fetches a pretty penny if there's 6 customers who want it. Don't have to be LeBron... that's reduction to the absurd.

 

[sturt]

12 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I think media runs with he wants to be a starter.

 

 

[Final_quest]

I don't think JJ is in any official rumor for Crowder?  

For a franchise that has basically never traded away any meaningful prospect, I would love to understand the psychology of why it causes so much anxiety.  

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

For a franchise that has basically never traded away any meaningful prospect, I would love to understand the psychology of why it causes so much anxiety.  

Think the answer starts with the faith fans have in Travis' draft wisdom... that's never been the case before with any ATL GM in my lifetime.

[Diesel]

20 minutes ago, sturt said:

Law of supply and demand, my friend.

Even a 5-day-old loaf of bread fetches a pretty penny if there's 6 customers who want it. Don't have to be LeBron... that's reduction to the absurd.

 

To supply and demand, you also have to introduce "Alternatives". 

This is the factor that is at work here.   There's not a lot of suitors willing to put out a lot for Crowder.   Mainly because they have "alternatives".    For instance, we can stand pat and not miss anything.   That 5 day old loaf that you speak of fetches a penny because people are hungry.. but what if they have alternatives.   What if there's another bread store with 3 days loaf.   It changes the demand.   There's not a strong demand for Crowder.   He's available and teams who may think they want him can put out an offer.  However,  like I said before, whereas for Phoenix moving him may be in high demand, there's no bid war that is happening for Crowder. 

 

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

in my lifetime.

Not even “Stretch” Maloney in 1912? 

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

For a franchise that has basically never traded away any meaningful prospect, I would love to understand the psychology of why it causes so much anxiety.  

Maybe because giving up on guys in the past doesn't mean you won't be the next band who ****s up and gives away Joe Johnson, etc.

Or maybe because when you look at a list of worst trades in NBA history you will see the Hawks on that list as the team that drafted and then traded away Bill Russell.  Like here:  https://bleacherreport.com/articles/872641-the-11-worst-trades-in-nba-history  That Pau Gasol trade didn't age well either.  (Or when we traded away the pick that could have been Amare Stoudamire for Lorenzen Wright, etc.)

Regardless, when you are trading away young players that fans have invested hope in for an expiring 30-something vet there is always the risk of blowing that ala Vlade Divac for Kobe Bryant.

 

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Vlade Divac for Kobe Bryant.

Nope that was a cover. That trade would have never happened if Kobe didn’t force his way to LA. That deal was bs and set up by David Stern the crook, who gave us another crook Adam Sliver. That deal wasn’t a deal.  

[RedDawg#8]

We get so excited over name players.

Would he be a good addition, yes

Is he an upgrade over Holiday? Marginally 

Is he worth Holiday plus assets- No

Do we have real minutes for him? Not really

 

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Nope that was a cover. That trade would have never happened if Kobe didn’t force his way to LA. That deal was bs and set up by David Stern the crook, who gave us another crook Adam Sliver. That deal wasn’t a deal.  

Insert your favorite. Go with when the Hawks acquired Nique if you want.  Or the time Boston gave away future Hawk Joe Johnson.  Or when the Hawks let Bill Russell go to h-e-double-hockey-sticks.  

 

[Spud2nique]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Insert your favorite. Go with when the Hawks acquired Nique if you want.  Or the time Boston gave away future Hawk Joe Johnson.  Or when the Hawks let Bill Russell go to h-e-double-hockey-sticks.  

 

Fine I will but I won’t use the Kobe one because it’s lies.

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Fine I will but I won’t use the Kobe one because it’s lies.

If you think it was a league arranged situation, I totally get that.  But there are plenty of other examples to use.  

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

So much to negotiate with this.

Did he feel disrespected...  Obviously. 

I think media runs with he wants to be a starter.   Maybe it's as simple as he wants a clear role and they disrespected him.   Before even thinking about making a trade, I would let him know that Dre is the starting 3.   However, he will play lots of minutes as a BU. 

I'm not running with the he bitched up because he wasn't starting.  I think it's more to it than that. 

Crowder was looking for a contract extension and his continued starting role on the Suns. There is no dispute there. A reduced role off the bench doesn't help him get the contract extension he is seeking.

Crowder tweeted "one must seek where he is wanted, where he is needed."

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

To supply and demand, you also have to introduce "Alternatives". 

This is the factor that is at work here. 

It is?

Then surely you can name one.

I'll give ya Kenyon Martin, Jr., though he certainly isn't the piece that Crowder is considered to be.

Who else? Who else is on the market and... even liberally speaking... is a viable "alternative."

I'll wait.

(Not really... I have an appointment shortly.)

[Gray Mule]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Not even “Stretch” Maloney in 1912? 

Especially not Maloney!

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, Gray Mule said:

Especially not Maloney!

But he had the infamous 2 handed “set” shot   Or was that Dolph “Lundgren” Schayes?