The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

JC is not constantly getting killed on switches though. The criticsim would be valid if he was consistently getting targeted but that doesn't happen. Our perimeter players are consistenly failing to do their defensive jobs, and no forward or center can change that.

He's not a bad defender, he's actually good but he's limited to the 4. Doesn't guard big wings well, offensive skilled players well, or skilled 5s. That's a major issue that everyone sees and the reason he's available. 

 

Our biggest issue is Trae. He f*cks up the defensive integrity forcing others in odd matchups. But we have to deal with that do we can get the benefit of elite offensive Trae

Edited June 22, 2022 by NBASupes

[marco102]

5 hours ago, JTB said:

I still think Murray would require a ton to get even if a deal is centered around OO. I think it would be something like OO, JC, + 1st that the Spurs would want for Murray and filler (maybe Poetl).

There would be a big hole at PF going forward where we can’t even place OO there. Any deal for Murray TO ME will involve Spurs wanting back JC at minimum ( a borderline all star) + at least 1 first rd pick even if OO is the main conveyed target. Heck we’d probably have to trade do that Huerter trade to get pick number 8 to send over to San Antonio just to get the deal done as well.

 

I don’t believe Murray will be traded but I do think the spurs are putting his name out there to see who they can flat out potentially rob to speed up their rebuild. It’s actually less expensive to go after Ivey at #4 in my opinion. 

The Hawks wouldn't give up both JC and OO in a trade for Murray. I'm pretty sure the Spurs would want a guard/wing in return too. 

They'd probably want a young player and two or three picks. The Spurs have a ton of Cap space so the salaries do not have to match on their end. 

The Hawks can send out more in the trade than they take back. So maybe Bogi and OO and two picks or Bogi/ and three picks (very unlikely).

 

[BangHolman]

4 hours ago, JTB said:

@NBASupes has your guy heard anything on this potential deal for #4 pick ?

"John Collins could be a catalyst for a major draft-day trade, potentially in a package with Kevin Huerter that would net Atlanta the No. 4 pick in the draft." (via @DraftExpress)

 

I’m assuming that would be JC + Huerter + 16th pick to Kings for #4 pick. I would be surprised if the Kings don’t see that as value for the 4th pick if this was offered.

That's an over pay for 4 in this draft.

[sturt]

25 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

If they don’t need Collins to win games, why shouldn’t we trade him?  

Logical enough. Let's go there.

I'd propose, maybe for the same line of reason that GSW welcomed Durant, but didn't actually need him?

Truly this is the stunning tragedy of the 2021-22 season, I think we'd almost all agree... we went into that season having wide regard especially among ourselves as our roster being the deepest in the NBA... but the Great Recession proved that a team still could get slammed hard enough that that didn't matter.

So, yeah, we could get by without one or more players (with the noted exception of Trae, of course) and win, as long as the rest of the rotation was essentially guys who were rotation-level guys.

So, so, so sad that we had only but, what, maybe 5 games all season where McM had the entire anticipated roster rotation available to him.

Sucked.

Really believe .621 wasn't even barely representative of what, in a perfectly healthy world, the 2021-22 roster would have achieved. We would have only built on the chemistry of the previous season. But we could never get in-sync because the players available to McM on any given night was a new puzzle.

The only thing discouraging/challenging that was the complacency that we've also discussed, given Capela's bringing it up (and to a lesser degree, others).

But circling back, those two thoughts--the beginning one and now that one--do come together. It's not conventionally wise to presume or become complacent that you really don't need your best overall post player after all.

[Spud2nique]

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

They don't feature the guy!

We can’t feature him, we wouldn’t win that way.

[nathan2331]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's not a bad defender, he's actually good but he's limited to the 4. Doesn't guard big wings well, offensive skilled players well, or skilled 5s. That's a major issue that everyone sees and the reason he's available. 

 

Our biggest issue is Trae. He f*cks up the defensive integrity forcing others in odd matchups. But we have to deal with that do we can get the benefit of elite offensive Trae

My point though is that even if we brought in a versatile defender at Collins' position,  we'll still continue to be a lackluster defense. Being switchable is nice, but it doesn't mean anything if your teammate can't switch either. The ball goes to whoever is mismatched on Trae and the opposing team gets a quality shot attempt. Our scheme has to evolve, as a team we've got to help and rotate way more than we've been doing. You can't put switchable defenders around Trae and expect them to figure it out. 

[ShooterSays]

If we could somehow come out of this offseason with a Big 3 of -

Trae/Murray/Ayton

That's a massive W. Extra credit if we can keep Hunter/OO in the process, but I'm guessing one would be gone.

Edited June 22, 2022 by ShooterSays

[Spud2nique]

I vote we go after Valaciunis and Nurkic both!  Build a fcking (pardon my language) wall.

Trae… Jonas.. and Nurk stand..

 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Spud2nique

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, ShooterSays said:

Trae/Murray/Ayton..

TAM baby TAM! (Trae Ayton Murray)

 

Tam on playa! 

[NBASupes]

Based on Intel, Hawks trade value list

Untouchables

1. Trae

2. Gap

3. Hunter

Semi untouchable unless they can land a young all star type on a good contract 

4. Okongwu 

Available for the right price 

5. Huerter 

6. Capela

7. Collins

8. Bogi

9. Gallo

Worthless to others but value to the Hawks 

9. JJ 

10. Coop

JC isn't getting the interest he should be getting. Capela offers are looking as expected. Teams offering 1sts and decent players in return but Capela isn't getting moved unless Atlanta gets Ayton or Gobert. Kevin getting good interest around the league. Scouts and executives love him and that contract is sexy af. Bogi has fans around the league. Gallo is worth his buyout which is 5 million and nothing more. 

[HawksNWaffles]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

I voted we go after Valaciunis and Nurkic both!  Build a fcking (pardon my language) wall.

Trae… Jonas.. and Nurk stand..

 

 

Why do these names together sound like a  90s boy band group

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, BangHolman said:

That's an over pay for 4 in this draft.

JC perceived trade value around the league is not that high

4 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

If we could somehow come out of this offseason with a Big 3 of -

Trae/Murray/Ayton

That's a massive W. Extra credit if we can keep Hunter/OO in the process, but I'm guessing one would be gone.

You can't get Murray without Okongwu. No one has anywhere close to his trade value on our team excluding Trae of course.

Edited June 22, 2022 by NBASupes

[sturt]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Worthless to others but value to the Hawks 

9. JJ 

I choke on that one, my friend. I just don't believe other teams' scouts didn't see what we all saw, and that... while no team is going to deal for him almost obviously as the key figure in a trade, he very well could be a tipping point figure whose inclusion would get a deal done.

I hate that I'm even bringing it up... hehe... I'd much rather lay low on that point, not tempting fate that it would turn out that way.

[ShooterSays]

The weeks leading up to the draft are the only times I regret not renewing my Athletic subscription. 

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Capela isn't getting moved unless Atlanta gets Ayton or Gobert

If we accept this, and we accept @Sothron's source's intel, seems there's a natural conclusion to be had.

Either you or Soth wanna soften those assertions? If not, seems we should begin having discussions that presume that natural conclusion, right?

[BangHolman]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

JC perceived trade value around the league is not that high

I get it. I just think it's too much for Ivey. I watched him play a few times this season and was underwhelmed every time. I think he's over rated. 

[sturt]

Most substantive comments from Kirschner...

 

I have heard that if the Hawks do trade up, they would be more keen to trade future picks instead of dumping Collins for a project. That’s not to say he wouldn’t be in a trade to move up, but it won’t be for a deal that doesn’t make them better this coming season...

 

There are some conflicting points with what Collins wants and what the Hawks want out of him. Collins has never wavered publicly or privately about wanting to be a Hawk. Never. Anything else you read stating otherwise is false. There are some close to Collins who think he would be better off elsewhere with a bigger role. But Collins himself has always said he wants to be in Atlanta.

There are multiple teams out there who want Collins, but the Hawks are making it clear behind the scenes that they’re not trading him for anything that doesn’t make them better next season and for the future.

 

Yes, I’ve been told they’ve engaged with the Kings on deals regarding the fourth pick and deals not involving the pick at all. To be clear: I do not expect Collins to be in a deal for the fourth pick if the Hawks aren’t getting a player in return who could help them this coming season. Maybe the thinking will change in the next 24 hours and talks will go all the way up to when the Kings are on the clock, but as of now, I’m not expecting a deal with the Kings to transpire.

I’ve heard Ivey would be the target at No. 4 if they were to trade with the Kings, which, again, doesn’t seem likely right now. I think Ivey has star potential with how explosive and athletic he is but I’m honestly unsure of the fit between him and Young. Ivey isn’t the kind of defender I’d personally want next to Young in the backcourt; you’d have to be sure that the other three guys on the floor with them are, at minimum, good defenders...

 

 

 

From talking with people across the league, the sense right now is Ayton will not be back with the Suns next season. If he’s not back with Phoenix, it’s widely expected that the Suns will negotiate a sign-and-trade to extract as much value as they possibly can due to losing one of their best players.

As of now, I’m expecting the Hawks not to be in the mix for Ayton when free agency opens. I’ve heard that Atlanta is one of the teams Ayton would be interested in playing for but there’s no traction right now in terms of the Hawks making a move for the Suns center. Their pursuit will likely be tied to Ayton and his representation taking a non-max deal, which doesn’t seem too likely right now....

 

 

 

From what I’ve heard, I don’t think the Hawks would be trading up for Murray. Daniels would be an option at No. 7 but a deal doesn’t seem imminent right now. Because of where either player would be drafted in this scenario, I’m not sure if they would automatically be gifted a starting spot, but a top 10 player would be a significant factor in the rotation....

 

 

Ultimately, I don’t think a deal is happening for Gobert. The contract is significant and limiting for a team that has several issues to address. If he wasn’t on a supermax deal, I think something could get done but that’s not the reality of the situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shakes]

I stick with my earlier prediction that nothing is going to happen and the best player we end up getting is Harrison Barnes or someone at that level.

 

Then we'll hear a nice spin job from Travis that sounds liek Diesel wrote it about how last year was a fluke because unlike any other teams in the NBA we had to deal with Covid and injuries and how we just need to run it back healthy and we'll be fine.

 

And some of you will buy into that nonsense.

[theheroatl]

6 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

The weeks leading up to the draft are the only times I regret not renewing my Athletic subscription. 

Nah, that blog post today is a wet blanket.

[NBASupes]

JC will be the new Myles Turner in terms of trade talk.