The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

I never said that. Just sayin. He cant be the 2nd highest paid player on a Trae Young led team...

John salary is at or below his market so he certainly can be for now.  Y'all just have to come to the realization that it takes time to build a contender.  Short cut just turn you into a treadmill is you take the wrong one.  Neither Klay nor Wiggins should be making what they are making based on their production but the Warriors made it work which is the bottom line

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, terrell said:

I just get tired of seeing so many say JC is a good defender, lol. When the more accurate statement is JC is a better defender than Gallo. But good (above average) is a far stretch. It just illustrates how bad of a defender JC used to be if he's noticeably improved, and is still only average. 

And has gotten better every year..  There's that phrase again...Organic Growth!  which is what happened to your love child Murray

[terrell]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

John salary is at or below his market so he certainly can be for now.  Y'all just have to come to the realization that it takes time to build a contender.  Short cut just turn you into a treadmill is you take the wrong one.  Neither Klay nor Wiggins should be making what they are making based on their production but the Warriors made it work which is the bottom line

Well.. If someone is supposed to be the heart and soul of a team. And the highest paid big on the team. I would want to feel comfortable having that PF/C playing with any tandem of big, to still see effectiveness. JC's not as elite offensively as Trae. So he shouldn't have to be repeatedly hid on defense.

[terrell]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

And has gotten better every year..  There's that phrase again...Organic Growth!  which is what happened to your love child Murray

My love child? When did I mention Murray?  You must be getting upset.. lol

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

Well.. If someone is supposed to be the heart and soul of a team. And the highest paid big on the team. I would want to feel comfortable having that PF/C playing with any tandem of big, to still see effectiveness. JC's not as elite offensively as Trae. So he shouldn't have to be repeatedly hid on defense.

Hidden on defense? No comment  

[terrell]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Hidden on defense? No comment  

Youre entitled to your own opinion....

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Hidden on defense? No comment  

Gallo and JC are deficient in the same areas (lateral quickness) and Collins’ biggest strength on the defense (weak side rim protection) is useless if the defense is already blown and/or he has to be the last line of defense.

[Spud2nique]

Dejounte Murray and Trae Young have mutual interest in playing together?

“I know that Dejounte and Trae want to play together, or at least have interest in doing it,” Jake Fischer said.

 

– via Evan Sidery @ basketballnews.com

 Top Rumors, Dejounte Murray, Trae Young, Atlanta Hawks, San Antonio Spurs

 

[sturt]

25 minutes ago, terrell said:

I just get tired of seeing so many say JC is a good defender, lol. When the more accurate statement is JC is a better defender than Gallo. But good (above average) is a far stretch. It just illustrates how bad of a defender JC used to be if he's noticeably improved, and is still only average. 

All defensive stats only probe so much.

That said.

DRTG, when put into the context of the overall team's DRTG, is useful to understand the degree to which an individual player is helping or hurting the team's defense... and also, put into the context that big men tend to lead DRTG ratings for their teams.

If you look at the last 3 seasons, John has been either even (2022), 1 point better (2021), or 2 points better (2020) than the Hawks team DRTG.

He's decent. He's okay. I do think he'll be increasingly better as he gets into his age 26-28 years, possibly going from decent to pretty good. He has the athleticism, but he doesn't physically have the chest that really good big defenders tend to have.

[terrell]

8 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Dejounte Murray and Trae Young have mutual interest in playing together?

“I know that Dejounte and Trae want to play together, or at least have interest in doing it,” Jake Fischer said.

 

– via Evan Sidery @ basketballnews.com

 Top Rumors, Dejounte Murray, Trae Young, Atlanta Hawks, San Antonio Spurs

 

JC and 2 1sts. Take it or leave it.. 

If they leave it go get Brogdon for cheaper and pray he stays healthy.. lol

It's not like we arent used to praying for the rest of the rosters health -besidesTrae.. smh

Edited June 26, 2022 by terrell

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, terrell said:

JC and 2 1sts. Take it or leave it.. 

[jy23]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

20/10 with high efficiency on offense for 2 years.  Plus its not John for Murray...Its john plus draft capital for Murray

He’s not 20/10…he did that one year on a terrible team. He’s a 17/7 guy. Don’t stretch the truth to help your argument 

[sturt]

9 hours ago, sturt said:

So... time for the Saturday night hypothetical....

 

ATL and SAS it turns out cannot make a trade work to the satisfaction of both sides with Collins and Murray as the principals coming from either side of the table.

 

Two part question.

If you're SAS and you really want Collins nonetheless, what do you offer ATL instead that doesn't involve Murray.

And.

Same shoe, other foot... if you're ATL and you really want Murray nonetheless, what do you offer SAS that doesn't involve Collins?

 

It goes without saying, but I'll say it... construct and offer up the most reasonable and fair trades to both sides that you can conjure up. Interested to see what people come up with.

(I ask, having no predetermined answer of my own. Just had the thought pass my puny brain during the dog walk tonight.)

 

Well, if no one else will go there, why not me? hehe

 

ATL obtains Murray

SAS obtains Collins

[enrique]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I just figured out why that on/off stat is being avoided

Player                                on/off court in 2021-22

Dejounte Murray                    +2.3

Kevin Huerter                         +4.8

Where did you pull that on/off rating from? 

The cleanest stats for almost any of these metrics come from Cleaningtheglass.com. They filter garbage time out and leave in the rest. 

2021-22 on/off court

Murray +5.6

Huerter +3.8

But on/off aren't a tool used to compare players on different teams. It gives context to a player's actual impact. Look at Ja Morant...amazing stats, but a -3.2 on/off. In other words, you could say his stats are "empty" or are inflated in the context of his team. 

Murray was a +5.6 (second among starters for Spurs) on a team with a net rating of -0.3. In other words he made a massive impact.

One of the highest regarded advanced metrics that has the highest predictive value is Dunksandthrees EPM. 

Huerter has an EPM of +.01 with a helpful estimated increase of wins of 4.5 for the Hawks. This ranks 163rd in the NBA.

In contrast Murray has an EPM +3.7 for estimated win increase of +10.7. This ranks 26th in the NBA. 

Again, on/off contextualizes a player's contributions. Big stats with negative on/off is a warning sign. Big stats with a strong on/off is awesome. Murray certainly hits the mark.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

The funny thing is that this guy did what he did 2 full season after most of THE core Hawks but if you look at his metrics at the same years, they were not very good. in comparison with Hawk players.  I JUST FIND THIS STRANGE.

Compare PER ... WS/48 ... BPM ... and VORP

 

[enrique]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Nope just comparing their impact when on the court vs when they are off

You are aware that John had an on/off this past season per CleaningtheGlass of 0.0 playing on a team with a net rating of +1.5. If you really want to go down this line of reasoning.

[Spud2nique]

Pardon me? 3???

I thought JC and 2 FRP’s

 

 

That’s quite a bit. 
 

Well, this makes these proposed talks between San Antonio and Atlanta even more interestings. Fischer also mentioned that the Spurs would only be willing to deal Murray for at least three future first-round picks, a package similar to what the New Orleans Pelicans received from the Milwaukee Bucks for Jrue Holiday.

 

[Spud2nique]

However, the bad news for the Hawks is that it would take more than just Collins to trade for Murray. The Spurs are reportedly seeking for at least three future first-round picks in any Murray trade, which might be a bit pricey for Atlanta.

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, terrell said:

I did some research. Because we all now you like defense right?

In DEF rating, 2 men lineups - JC/Gallo has a 114.7. OO/Gallo has a 107.4. And Capela/Gallo has a 111.7. Capela and OO were able to keep their effectiveness even with Gallo or JC on the court.

 

JC/Gallo put up a net rating of -0.3. As opposed to Capela/Gallo who had a 3.0 net rating. Just more evidence, as the primary interior defender, JC's defense leaves a lot to be desired. And JC requires a much better interior defender on the court with him. 

 

I'm not jumping in..

but these numbers just prove that Gallo is not a good a Center as OO and Capela.  Or that JC is not a good a Center as OO and Capela. 

Cause you're looking at 4/5 efficiency on defense right?

[Peoriabird]

7 hours ago, enrique said:

Where did you pull that on/off rating from? 

The cleanest stats for almost any of these metrics come from Cleaningtheglass.com. They filter garbage time out and leave in the rest. 

2021-22 on/off court

Murray +5.6

Huerter +3.8

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrade01.html#pbp

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huertke01.html#pbp

[Peoriabird]

7 hours ago, jy23 said:

He’s not 20/10…he did that one year on a terrible team. He’s a 17/7 guy. Don’t stretch the truth to help your argument 

1st of all , those teams were as bad as they were because he missed a bunch of games and plus his head coach was less than Stella to put it mildly.  And secondly, 34-48 ain't exactly winning basketball.