Do we really want Trae playing the 2?

[Diesel]

I know that he can.  I know that he will be a knock down three point shooter.  I just don't want him playing the 2 in a half court set unless it is out of transition. 

Here's my thing.

Trae is a Historic PG.  I'm talking Points and Assists.   He runs a helluva PNR.  I think that PNR is still our base offense.  

But I don't want to see a lot of set offense sets where we walk it down, hand DM the ball and Trae goes running to the three point line.  No disrespect to DM but I think that is a misuse of our talents.   

My thinking is:

DM brings the ball up fast on rebounds, blocks, and steals.   However, other times, we defer the offense to Trae.  When they both are on the floor.   We can really wear down a team if we take advantage of our speed on break opportunities.   However, we're still good enough in a half court set to beat them down with the PNR. 

There will be times, when the team keeps up with our break and we come down and move into a half court set... we can at that point use a 2/5 or 2/4 PNR with Murray running things.   In this situation, Trae will be hella dangerous because a team that has had to keep up with us in transition is going to have to scramble to get to their man.   A trailing Trae or a side out Trae is going to light them up if he's not covered. 

But that's not every play.   I still want to see Trae around 7 - 8 apg. 

 

[theheroatl]

Nothing is set until they actually have games played. Lots of doubters out there that it will work anyway so it is what it is.

[NBASupes]

To answer your question. No. That said, he needs to play or at least learn how to play off the ball at this level 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

To answer your question. No. That said, he needs to play or at least learn how to play off the ball at this level 

I'm not against him playing off ball (on occasions) but the full move to 2 for a lot of our sets is the worst thing we can do.  Murray shouldn't be plugged in as the new Kev either.   I think there's a middle ground that works and will make us a very hard team to beat. 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, theheroatl said:

Nothing is set until they actually have games played. Lots of doubters out there that it will work anyway so it is what it is.

That's true.  But I don't doubt Trae being able to play off ball.   I just don't think it's his most effective usage.   Point is Trae is a dead eye shooter from outside.  If he gets some of the looks that Dre and Kev got out of the PNR, he's going to knock them threes down.  I also don't doubt that Murray can run a great 2/4  or 2/5 PNR  even a 2/1 PNP...  Thing is Murray is an upgrade to say Bogi because of his ball handling and his desire to pass.  You got to want to pass. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

This is the way I see it:

Trae will be our PG, just too much gravity. 

What do needs to happen is that when he does give the ball up he can't be stationary but he has to move with intention to get the ball back in scoring position for CnS opportunities - that's on Nate to actually design an offense to do that. Trae shouldn't be just running around all willy nilly. Move with purpose and intention. 

When teams trap Trae as part of a continual defensive scheme, that's when he moves off the ball as the primary offensive initiator and becomes the defacto SG.

We've seen this before with Huerter but what happened was he'll bring the ball up court then just wait for Trae to become free and give him the ball to set the offense. With Murray he can be the offensive initiator all on his own.

 

 

 

[Final_quest]

I think DM will allow us to play different sets where he is the primary ball handler, but Trae is still our main guy. 

I'm excited to see what they do with Trae off the ball, though.  Imagine the space Trae will give DM to operate.  He is going to draw a lot of attention on his side of the court without the ball.

When you look at DM's shot chart, he can hit the three from his spots.  Look for his percentage to go up.  With Collins, Bogi, Dre, and DM we'll still have plenty of shooting for when Trae is running PNR with Capela or Okongwu.  

[JayBirdHawk]

28 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm not against him playing off ball (on occasions) but the full move to 2 for a lot of our sets is the worst thing we can do. 

I don't see that happening.

[shakes]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

I know that he can. 

 

you don't know that.   He has yet to prove he can play the 2.   Until we  see him playing without the ball and actually making an effort to move without the basketball none of us know if he can do it.    So far the evidence suggests he can't do it or he refuses to do it.

 

I believe he will do it, but as of now we've seen nothing to suggest he can.

[macdaddy]

He isn't playing the 2.   He's simply letting DJM run the offense if the defense chooses to double or triple him.  

[AHF]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

He isn't playing the 2.   He's simply letting DJM run the offense if the defense chooses to double or triple him.  

I think this is much closer to what this will be.  Trae is elite on catch and shoot opportunities so we should incorporate some of this but Trae is basically learning this skill from ground zero (based on his off-ball movement that we've not seen) and it should be a clear minority of situations where he is on the floor.  DM should be the primarily point most often when Trae is on the bench.  Figuring out ways to take advantage of their skills when on the floor together is perhaps the biggest schematic challenge for Nate on offense this season.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This is the way I see it:

Trae will be our PG, just too much gravity. 

What do needs to happen is that when he does give the ball up he can't be stationary but he has to move with intention to get the ball back in scoring position for CnS opportunities - that's on Nate to actually design an offense to do that. Trae shouldn't be just running around all willy nilly. Move with purpose and intention. 

When teams trap Trae as part of a continual defensive scheme, that's when he moves off the ball as the primary offensive initiator and becomes the defacto SG.

We've seen this before with Huerter but what happened was he'll bring the ball up court then just wait for Trae to become free and give him the ball to set the offense. With Murray he can be the offensive initiator all on his own.

 

 

 

Amen and Amen....

I hated Kev bringing the ball up only to look for Trae to take over.    I also hated the period we had last year when Bogi would bring the ball up and Trae would fade to the corner and Bogi never looked that way.   It leads to Trae doing absolutely nothing and his gravity is wasted.  It was like Teams knew when Kev got the ball, he was waiting on Trae and when Bogi got the ball, there was no reason to stay on Trae.

This is NATE'S Chance to prove the critics wrong about his "creativity".  Moving with purpose is the key...

I also hope that Nate teaches lane assignments on the break. 

An ordered fast break is more than efficient.   And we got to have one.

 

[Diesel]

34 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think this is much closer to what this will be.  Trae is elite on catch and shoot opportunities so we should incorporate some of this but Trae is basically learning this skill from ground zero (based on his off-ball movement that we've not seen) and it should be a clear minority of situations where he is on the floor.  DM should be the primarily point most often when Trae is on the bench.  Figuring out ways to take advantage of their skills when on the floor together is perhaps the biggest schematic challenge for Nate on offense this season.

The statement playing the 2... actually came from Trae,   He did a Q & A on twitter yesterday or the day before.   He said that he can play the 2, he played it in AAU or HS or something like that.   My hope is that he isn't being sold on playing the 2.  My rule is you are what you can guard.    I like the idea of Trae playing the 1 and allowing DM to run it too... I think I have expressed that. 

 

[Diesel]

This is what Makes Trae  an"ATLIEN" and makes him COOL af...

 

I want Trae to retire a Hawk after a career filled with Chips and accolades!

 

[bleachkit]

49 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think this is much closer to what this will be.  Trae is elite on catch and shoot opportunities so we should incorporate some of this but Trae is basically learning this skill from ground zero (based on his off-ball movement that we've not seen) and it should be a clear minority of situations where he is on the floor.  DM should be the primarily point most often when Trae is on the bench.  Figuring out ways to take advantage of their skills when on the floor together is perhaps the biggest schematic challenge for Nate on offense this season.

Yes, I would assume his job depends on it. If he can't get the Trae and DM combo to work, he will be quickly shown the door.

[Spud2nique]

12 hours ago, Diesel said:

still want to see Trae around 7 - 8 apg. 

Or higher. He’s the best passer since Magic Johnson. He has vision and that can’t be wasted. 
 

The question becomes… what’s Trae’s better attribute:

The shooting or the passing. He can pass off the ball as well though let’s not forget that.

So possible instead of Trae having to be be the guy the sets the scorer up, he can be the beneficiary of the dime.

So, if we swing the ball around the horn, Trae can swoop up all those hockey assists that others were getting or not getting because DM wasn’t here.

On ball… off ball..

I can’t wait for Xmas (aka opening night)!!!!

[AHF]

27 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The statement playing the 2... actually came from Trae,   He did a Q & A on twitter yesterday or the day before.   He said that he can play the 2, he played it in AAU or HS or something like that.   My hope is that he isn't being sold on playing the 2.  My rule is you are what you can guard.    I like the idea of Trae playing the 1 and allowing DM to run it too... I think I have expressed that. 

 

I think we all know Trae will guard the weakest opposing guard and DM will take the best / biggest guard regardless of what happens on offense.  I agree with you that Trae is a maestro with the ball in his hands and that needs to remain the core of our offense.  Trae is what has made our offense elite.  DM has skills we haven't had in our wings in Atlanta and that should enhance that preexisting offensive core.

15 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Yes, I would assume his job depends on it. If he can't get the Trae and DM combo to work, he will be quickly shown the door.

That is probably fair.  That combo needs to work wonders.  No reason it shouldn't.  

15 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Or higher. He’s the best passer since Magic Johnson. He has vision and that can’t be wasted. 
 

While people could quibble about whether he is the absolute best passer since Magic, he is clearly an elite playmaker and passer with a special gift.  It was what sold me on him after I was worried about him having a low floor in the draft.  I was ok with his dismal shooting start to his rookie season because he showed a special ability to make passes and that his assists weren't just the product of hogging the ball.

[Diesel]

The intangible about Trae that nobody ever mentions is his LEADERSHIP.  He exudes it.   It's his boat.   That's what makes him greater than most of the stars that ever wore a Hawks Jersey.  Joe Johnson was great.  One of the top 3 to 4 players in Atlanta Hawks history... but his leadership was quiet.   Even Nique's leadership was questionable.   But with Trae there is no question. 

That's why he should have his hands on the ball..

But 

DM is not here to be the new Kev.   If Nate punches him in and give him a new Kev role, then Nate has to go.

 

[AHF]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

DM is not here to be the new Kev.   If Nate punches him in and give him a new Kev role, then Nate has to go.

 

Regardless of what Nate wants, I can't imagine DM resembling Kev.  My biggest frustration with Kevin is he was too timid to take the ball to the rim.  While DM isn't a free throw machine or anything, I think the level of aggression he will bring will be so far removed from Kevin that they will be demonstrably different regardless of what Nate puts on paper for scheme.

[Spud2nique]

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