Hawks offensive problems... or is it a problem?

[Diesel]

I would say that if there was a problem with the offense, it would be spacing.  The bottom line is that we miss Bogi right now.  Not for the first team but for one of our 2nd teams.

The lineup of Trae, Holidaze, JJ, and Clint is not one that we should put on the floor a lot because of spacing.  Yall won't say it but I will.. JJ kinda sucks. He's athletic but he does nothing for our floor spacing.  Makes us long for Gallo.   That lineup will have Trae with Low percentage shooting. 

On the first team, DJM and Hunter (when he feels like being aggressive) helps our spacing a lot because we have movement.   The thing is we should be twice as potent because both DJM and Hunter has nice midrange games.   We have gone away from the 1-5 PNR.   Strange, that use to be our bread and butter.  Unfortunately for now, we will go how Hunter goes.   I believe that if there are signs that Hunter is playing aggressively, those will be the games we win.  When he goes into his shell, those will be the games we don't win (for now). 

I heard a lot about OO's jumpshot this summer.  Thus far, he seems to be the same guy he was last year. If he could drain some Frank the tank shots, it would be so meaningful for our second unit.

Somebody has to help Trae with spacing so we wait for Bogi Leader of the Horde to get back right.

 

 

[theheroatl]

not a problem.. watching the games there are plenty of open looks… just misses for whatever reason. Just need to lock down defense until shooting gets hot then a win streak rolls

 

if needed pull up the advanced stats on open shots made

Edited October 25, 2022 by theheroatl

[NBASupes]

JJ don't suck. I think he's one of our most talented players but then again, I thought Cam was our most talented player. He Needs to be used correctly but we don't really have that opening. He has no proven track record at the 3 and he's not a 4 for how the Hawks play, maybe the Spurs or Jazz, you know, teams that move the ball and don't spam the PnR. 

[Wretch]

I agree that we need a shooter to space the floor (which was the one thing I suggested at the end of the offseason), but I think we also need ball movement.  We have been getting great looks when we do that - inside and out.  

If all we're doing is pounding the ball, setting up isolation or PNR, then we're so much easier to defend.  Especially if we don't finish and end up kicking out to an average shooter (which is basically everybody but Trae ATM).  Not to mention, we won't be forcing the defense to do anything.  They'll just guard against penetration and wait for us to go cold.

As well... I think I'm ready to talk about Trae's shot selection.  I'm not going full on hater, because I'm still ok with "the shot."   However, the team (and especially Trae) has got to get into a rhythm first.  The timing of these shots is far worse than the shots themselves.  It's not just the logo 3's though.  It's the untimely "hero ball" that'll get us into trouble. 

Circling back to my initial point, if guys are just taking turns attacking (or launching bombs), then we're not moving the ball and we're not getting the most out of our weapons.  It's early and we're adapting to new players and new dynamics, so I'm hoping to see some adjustments in the coming weeks. 

[Diesel]

45 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I agree that we need a shooter to space the floor (which was the one thing I suggested at the end of the offseason), but I think we also need ball movement.  We have been getting great looks when we do that - inside and out.  

If all we're doing is pounding the ball, setting up isolation or PNR, then we're so much easier to defend.  Especially if we don't finish and end up kicking out to an average shooter (which is basically everybody but Trae ATM).  Not to mention, we won't be forcing the defense to do anything.  They'll just guard against penetration and wait for us to go cold.

As well... I think I'm ready to talk about Trae's shot selection.  I'm not going full on hater, because I'm still ok with "the shot."   However, the team (and especially Trae) has got to get into a rhythm first.  The timing of these shots are far worse than the shots themselves.  It's not just the logo 3's though.  It's the untimely "hero ball" that'll get us into trouble. 

Circling back to my initial point, if guys are just taking turns attacking (or launching bombs), then we're not moving the ball and we're not getting the most out of our weapons.  It's early and we're adapting to new players and new dynamics, so I'm hoping to see some adjustments in the coming weeks. 

I'm not so down on Trae's shots or his selection because I know he will get it together.   I think the spacing on the 2nd Unit plays a role in it but he will get it together. 

Like you, I appreciate the fact that we're moving.   Right now, we're tied for 4th in Fast break points.   Last year we were dead last.   Right now, we have 2 guys who can hit midrange shots.  Last year, we'd just line guy on the 3 pt line and hope that somebody gets hot.   Right now, we move without the ball.   We need more of that.   1st 2 games, JC was able to EAT because of the ball movement.  I think we will find out that our bread and butter will become more of what we gain from motion and we will still have that PNR/PNP in our back pocket. 

ATM, we just learning how to get each other the ball and haven't really focused on what we do well.   But we'll get there. 

 

[Wretch]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm not so down on Trae's shots or his selection because I know he will get it together.   I think the spacing on the 2nd Unit plays a role in it but he will get it together. 

Like you, I appreciate the fact that we're moving.   Right now, we're tied for 4th in Fast break points.   Last year we were dead last.   Right now, we have 2 guys who can hit midrange shots.  Last year, we'd just line guy on the 3 pt line and hope that somebody gets hot.   Right now, we move without the ball.   We need more of that.   1st 2 games, JC was able to EAT because of the ball movement.  I think we will find out that our bread and butter will become more of what we gain from motion and we will still have that PNR/PNP in our back pocket. 

ATM, we just learning how to get each other the ball and haven't really focused on what we do well.   But we'll get there. 

 

Agreed 1000% on this.  If we're talking identity, as in what makes a team dangerous, I think it's spacing the floor and keeping the defense guessing with ball/player movement.  Not unlike Golden State, but less perimeter oriented.  Also...it wouldn't just be about making the "extra pass" to win by committee as we used to do it "without stars."  This would be about having guys getting into position for either of our All Star PG's to make the right pass or for Trae/DJM to take it and hit from their best spots.

[cam1218]

2 hours ago, Wretch said:

Circling back to my initial point, if guys are just taking turns attacking (or launching bombs), then we're not moving the ball and we're not getting the most out of our weapons.  It's early and we're adapting to new players and new dynamics, so I'm hoping to see some adjustments in the coming weeks. 

This can apply to the last couple of seasons too. So many times we just pass and shoot either a contested three or just one that has no offensive rhythm to it when things aren’t going well. You felt better with the likes of Bogi, Gallo, and Huerter making those opposed to what we have now, but it was still forced with them too. I agree that it will take time for us to gel, but I hate seeing lazy offense like that when we have other opportunities to exploit a defense.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, cam1218 said:

This can apply to the last couple of seasons too. So many times we just pass and shoot either a contested three or just one that has no offensive rhythm to it when things aren’t going well. You felt better with the likes of Bogi, Gallo, and Huerter making those opposed to what we have now, but it was still forced with them too. I agree that it will take time for us to gel, but I hate seeing lazy offense like that when we have other opportunities to exploit a defense.

Well, you have to understand, last year, are best parts (aside from Trae) were really unathletic.   For whatever reason, KVon would not drive, Gallo was a walking bucket but he wouldn't call for the ball and Bogi would move and hit threes but it was kinda random.... and when he was injured, he was his worst self. 

Right now, DJM changes the dynamic of our others.   Now they know if they move, they will be rewarded.  The pressure off of Trae to be everything on offense has allowed him to explore his defense.   The Mitten has actually made a few appearances.  What we shouldn't do is fall back into bad habits.. i.e. slow the game down and pound the ball.  Player movement/Ball movement is the key.. and we'll figure that out.   That takes knowledge of each other.   But Nate can't Nate the lineups.  Trae, Holidaze, JJ, Clint.. should never see the floor at the same time.  JJ and Clint creates no spacing.  Holidaze hasn't been on.  It puts Trae in a bad spot.   We move into predictable. 

 

[benhillboy]

20 games people.

[Wretch]

3 hours ago, benhillboy said:

20 games people.

The 25 game pledge is to avoid firm conclusions Ben!  We're just tossing out casual observations and suspicions here, and in my case, decorated with "IF's" and "HOPE's"

[swanlee]

I'm not worried, seems the team as a whole is just having a shooting slump which given the skills of our players won't last long. If our shooting gets back to normal we will be pretty deadly.

We have alot of new players on the team so it should not surprise anyone that we are still working out a few issues

[macdaddy]

We're going to have to try AJ while we're waiting on Bogi.  We'll take some lumps though esp. on the defensive end but the 3s will be a boost. 

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

We're going to have to try AJ while we're waiting on Bogi.  We'll take some lumps though esp. on the defensive end but the 3s will be a boost. 

I hate to say this, but at 3 games in are we being too quick to concede we lack shooters?  Both Trae and JHol usually shoot much better, for example.  

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I hate to say this, but at 3 games in are we being too quick to concede we lack shooters?  Both Trae and JHol usually shoot much better, for example.  

The shooting will get better.   I think we have a chicken little moment because we don't have Gallo and Huerter ....  Some of the fanbase has yet to understand that Trae has to learn how to shoot while not being the primary ball handler and some of our others have to get in sync with the ball handlers so that they can get the ball in their spots. 

KVon went 1 for 8 the other night ... if that helps. 

 

[Gray Mule]

Offensive problem?  Yep.  We do have one.  When our shots don't fall, there is a problem.  In our last game, our shots were not falling, therefore we had a problem.

Defensive problem?  Yep.  We do have one.  When our defense is helpless against our current opponent, we have a problem.  Hawks couldn't contain their latest opponent, therefore, we had a problem.

In our last game, the Atlanta Hawk team looked like they were the worst team in the NBA.  No way to sugar coat it and make it look better.  That game even smelled bad.

Sometimes things happen for a reason.  We hope that this last game was a wake up call for the entire team, every player and every coach.  This can not continue.  Wake up or move out!  This is not panic.  This is just facing facts.  The Atlanta Hawks are better than they showed.  Time to wake up!

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

 

Defensive problem?  Yep.  We do have one.  When our defense is helpless against our current opponent, we have a problem.  Hawks couldn't contain their latest opponent, therefore, we had a problem.

Well, we had the top ranked defense before game #3.  I’m not sure we have a defense or shooting problem yet.  
If we kept Gallo, we’d have an injured player for the year.

[Peoriabird]

22 hours ago, Wretch said:

I agree that we need a shooter to space the floor (which was the one thing I suggested at the end of the offseason), but I think we also need ball movement.  We have been getting great looks when we do that - inside and out.  

 

Trae Young

PPG

• 25.3

APG

• 11.7

3P%

• 25.0

FG%

• 32.4

[Wretch]

4 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I hate to say this, but at 3 games in are we being too quick to concede we lack shooters?  Both Trae and JHol usually shoot much better, for example.  

I'm not saying that we lack shooters so much as I'm saying having that shooter is key.  I'm also saying that ball movement is going to create better looks for that shooter (or shooters).  I believe as much as anyone that we have guys on this team that can hit from the perimeter and I'm not judging DJM's long ball until at least 25 Games In^Ⓒ .

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Trae Young

PPG

• 25.3

APG

• 11.7

3P%

• 25.0

FG%

• 32.4

Not even sure what you are trying to say? 

Trae shot 27% on threes during his first 8 games last year and ended at 38%.  What your stat actually says to me is that we should expect some big improvements from Trae soon.  At least I trust 4 years of stats over the first 3 games.

[Peoriabird]

57 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Not even sure what you are trying to say? 

Trae shot 27% on threes during his first 8 games last year and ended at 38%.  What your stat actually says to me is that we should expect some big improvements from Trae soon.  At least I trust 4 years of stats over the first 3 games.

Not sure what I'm saying...Hmm well let me spell it out for you.  the question of the thread is what is wrong with the offense after 3 games? The OP thinks its spacing because of the lack of 3 point shooters on the team.  My response is that the person taking over a quarter of the team's shots per game and almost a 3rd of the 3 point shots per games is missing 68% of them and 75% of his 3's.  That's what wrong with this offense during the 1st 3 games.