Haynes: Rival executives are of belief Hawks guard Trae Young could be next star player to request trade if team doesn’t make inroads come playoff time.

[Spud2nique]

5 minutes ago, JTB said:

speedy claxton.

That seemed weird to me. He must have meant Spurs Speedy because he barely played for us, always hurt.

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

Nash never had a chance in Brooklyn with Kyrie up there..

Yup this. Kyme is a coach killer.

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, JTB said:

Trae has power and has publicly stated Nash is his all time favorite player other than iverson and speedy claxton.

That’s like me saying I loved watching Barry Sanders, Walter Payton and Ki Jana Carter…  umm …ok Trae…

Speedy, really? 

[StonedDogs]

44 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Not opposed to Nash.  I know Trae respects him a lot which is a great first step.  Nash never had a chance in Brooklyn with Kyrie up there... Udoka I'm not 100% sold on, probably rather have Snyder to be honest.

What makes you more sold on Snyder than Udoka? Udoka has been around the NBA much longer. 

He controlled two allstars, made them play defense. 

Got his team to finals and almost won his 1st year. You guys hold on to Trae 1st ECF appearance and believe he's the world. 

Nash had two superstars was the most disappointing team to date. 

Snyder has never been to an NBA finals. Udoka would have Murray who is a defensive nightmare and Hunter who is a defensive nightmare. He would have OO, a younger but different type of Horford. To have him build this team with a PG of his liking would be a dream. He turned a bullheaded pg into a leader who knew his role and left everything on the court. 

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, StonedDogs said:

What makes you more sold on Snyder than Udoka? Udoka has been around the NBA much longer. 

He controlled two allstars, made them play defense. 

Got his team to finals and almost won his 1st year. You guys hold on to Trae 1st ECF appearance and believe he's the world. 

Nash had two superstars was the most disappointing team to date. 

Snyder has never been to an NBA finals. Udoka would have Murray who is a defensive nightmare and Hunter who is a defensive nightmare. He would have OO, a younger but different type of Horford. To have him build this team with a PG of his liking would be a dream. He turned a bullheaded pg into a leader who knew his role and left everything on the court. 

I think you attribute the Cs success to him more than I do.  I wouldn’t be mad if he came to Atlanta, but I worry about his judgement given the situation over the summer.  I dont really blame Nash for the circus that has been Brooklyn the past two years.  For what it’s worth, I think any of those three guys will be a big step up from Nate.

[Threezus]

If i had to trade Trae the guy i would probably target to put next to Murray would be Jaylen Brown more than likely.  He is always being put into trade articles as well and is a home town boy from here.  I feel he can give you more than Trae as a complete player on both ends and would pair quite well with Murray here.

PG - Murray / Holiday
SG - Brown / Bogi
SF - Hunter / Griff
PF - Collins / Jalen
C - Clint / Onyeka

Thats honestly a pretty balanced and complete team with some good size top to bottom.

[NBASupes]

Tony is never trading Trae. Why? So he can go back to 60-70% attendance. Trae is a box office star that kids love, replacing that is next to impossible. Realistically, trading Trae is way far down the list regardless if it makes us better or not. As long as Trae is selling them tickets, we will try to continue to figure out how we can build this around him to win a title. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

8 hours ago, AHF said:

I do think that drama gets overblown in the media (like is he going to be more upset now than he was when it came out that Pierce literally deliberately black balled him with the Olympic coaches), but if I were Trae and watching what Nate is doing with this team I would be upset.  Trae has things to work on  himself for sure (defense is the big standout) but Nate is an obvious problem to someone like me.

So for someone who knows the game much better than I do and has to watch Nate pull strategic moves like putting Bogi in for key defensive possessions, focusing on mid-range shots over 3's, and pulling guys whenever they get hot because it is "mistake o'clock" and time for a substitution, he must be fuming game after game.  I think that is why we have seen a few eye raising tweets from his dad this year and why we've seen reports of Nate and Trae bumping heads.

Nate clearly has a very inflexible attitude towards things and Trae is clearly passionate about the game and has ambitions for himself and his team.  That is going to lead to friction where the two of them aren't on the same page.  And I couldn't be on the same page as Nate if I were in Trae's shoes.  I would keep pushing him to more than what he did in Indiana that led to the fanbase griping about his love of midrange shots and iso ball, etc. and given Nate's disposition he is going to keep checking his young star for that kind of behavior.

Unless it is going to lead to a ton of wins, there is going to be some trouble brewing with this dynamic.  And we aren't seeing that ton of wins for a variety of reasons.

I think Trae is still thrilled that we added Murray.  Just frustrated we aren't doing better.  I'd say most Squawkers feel the same way.

I stopped watching this team weeks ago, I just read on them these days and I see the board still saying everything that I've stated already over a month ago. 

Fit ain't there. 

Murray trade has helped us but hurt us in terms of scoring. 

Bogi did help but his flaws on defense when it's crunch time erases his good impact which was even worse for Kevin last year. 

It's gonna be hard to win around Trae. He needs the rock almost religiously and he can't play without it. It's not about effort, he just don't got no tools off the ball which also shows up on defense which we already KNEW this but we got too many fools on here and in the organization who would blame other players instead of accepting the fact that if Trae could do this, he would have BEEN doing this. Failure to the idiots in the organization who suggested Trae go workout with Steph Curry. It's had the same negative effect as Jayson Tatum seeing Kobe. 

Honestly, no one wants to listen to me which is odd because all I want it potential titles and contending status but if you want to win, it ain't that hard. 

Get Trae back into his role. You can't do that with Murray but Murray is so valuable, you really can't just let him go unless the value is massive which Murray's value is. 

Get KAT. He's a perfect offensive fit with Trae. He can draw a lot of defensive attention which means doubling Trae can be easily punished as we have someone down low who can punish you. 

He makes Okongwu optimal as a rim protecting 4 who can defend in space and finish around the rim. 

Hunter is Hunter. Nothing is changing. 

Griffin is obviously our SG of the future and Bogi is our SG for now. We can't win a title starting Bogi at all but with a lineup of 

Trae/Bogi/Hunter/OO/KAT - Gives us an elite offense with potential to play solid team defense. Obviously, we need a defensive upgrade at the 2 which Griffin will be in time. 

We need to make this damn team fit. It don't and they gonna continue playing .500 Basketball till they do. They will likely go on a 3 game winning streak soon and then lose 4 in a row as well. Streaky. This team reminds me so much of the Harden/Westbrook Rockets and like that team, I became so disinterested to an extreme degree. 

That said, I like a lot of the personnel on this squad. I do see a lot of value here moreso than previous years, hell, even last year, I like this personnel a lot more. They just don't fit. Last year, at least they did, just wasn't good enough. I think they are good enough now. 

[NBASupes]

This trade will change all three teams direction in a positive manner.

All three of these teams have major fit issues. This solves it for ALL Three. 

[NBASupes]

Atlanta and Minnesota are in the same position and I could easily turn both into contenders. 

Atlanta/MIN moves I'd make: 

 

[NBASupes]

For MIN, you basically turn them into a defensive version of Memphis. 

Murray/Delon/Rivers gives you two top end defensive PGs while Murray is good enough offensively to do a lot of work. Moves Rivers to where he should be, a 12th man. 

SG is probably the biggest issue for MIN right now unless Ant is playing there. This trade helps by a mile. Gives them a top end shooter, scorer, and Norvell been playing solid as well as the rookie, Moore. Kennard/Burton/Norvell/Moore

Ant/Anderson is TOUGH! Makes you have such a strong wing backcourt with Murray defending PGs. 

McDaniels/Rui/Prince gives you a lot to work with. A lot of options at the 4. 

Gobert/Reid is already working for them. 

This makes them an elite defensive team and with enough offense to win about 57-60 games in the West. Tremendous depth. Good salary balance unlike right now where KAT and Russell take up so much money. 

 

For Atlanta, this also works. 

Trae/Morris/Holiday gives Atlanta a strong PG rotation. 

Bogi/Griffin are already our SG now and the future. 

Hunter/Kispert/Holiday is interesting. If Kispert works for Atlanta, that really helps as this trade moves Bogi to the starters which obviously weakens the bench. 

Okongwu/Kuzma/JJ - I know most Hawk fans would put Kuzma here as it just makes sense to many Hawks fans but it won't work. Not enough balls and Kuz with KAT, Bogi, and Trae is defensive suicide. That said, with a much more weaken bench, Kuz is critical here. 

KAT/Frank - Our biggest issue is backup 5 with these trades. We don't have one that's legit unless you are one of the Hawk fans that's like, Okongwu but I am not one of those. I realize this is just gonna be an issue till the offseason when we have a MLE. Maybe a Holiday trade plus a pick could address this issue. I just don't think this will be address till the offseason. We would need to see how Kuz works in Atlanta first. 

 

For LAC, it's already something they spoke to us about so it was an easy move to make. 

For Washington, both Collins and Russell have been players they have been interested in. Obviously, they would need to see if this works. If it don't work. Russell is a FA. Beal, Collins, and KP should work though. Russell fit is questionable but they have been the biggest team in checking in for him. My guess is you see if it has potential, if it doesn't, move on. 

 

Atlanta and Minnesota aren't far. They just need some moves that make sense. 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

I think you attribute the Cs success to him more than I do.  I wouldn’t be mad if he came to Atlanta, but I worry about his judgement given the situation over the summer.  I dont really blame Nash for the circus that has been Brooklyn the past two years.  For what it’s worth, I think any of those three guys will be a big step up from Nate.

You guys got to be kidding me with Nash. 

Nash's answer to other team's tactics was.. Play KD more. 

His replacement has Brooklyn looking like the terror of the East.  7 game streak so far.  Jacque Vaughn is doing the damn thing.

Nawl.. if I can't have the old man, give me Udoka.  Please no Nash. 

 

 

 

[shakes]

and let's not forget the living hell Trae's on court life became after Nash called him out with his famous "that's not basketball" presser.   F Nash.  There's gotta be 50 better candidates out there.

[JeffS17]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

His replacement has Brooklyn looking like the terror of the East.

Lloyd Pierce's replacement had us looking like contenders.

[kg01]

17 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Lloyd Pierce's replacement had us looking like contenders.

Haha.  Seems replacements can walk in and benefit from getting back to basics, so to speak.  Letting the air clear.

It's hard to tell if they're actually elevating or are just getting the car back in the road.

I'm thinking we have our answer here.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

19 hours ago, AtLaS said:

When there is smoke there is usually fire.  And there is a LOT of smoke.  

Trae is like my favorite player ever and I want to win with him more than anything, but he is hard to build around.  Murray isn't close to the scorer/passer or offensive player in general but he is easier to build around.  We would need another offensive star if we traded Trae.  No way we are getting Mitchell now but he would fit perfect beside DJM.  

Regardless, we have him under contract for 5 years, we have all the leverage and I don't think we would trade him, but if we did it would be for a monster return.  

Really hope it doesn't come to this.  Would rather try a coaching change first and we can always look to make moves in the offseason or next year.  It takes time for teams to gel.  We've really just lost a lot of close games that we have blown leads, we could easily be top 3 in the East IMO.

 

Why do people keep saying that Trae is hard to build around?

We have seen two 35+ game periods in the last 2 seasons, in which the Hawks have played top 10 in the league type basketball.

The first period was right after the LP firing, in which the Hawks closed the season with a 27 - 11 record.

The second period was last season, when the Hawks went 26 - 14.

Both of these periods were preceded by multiple injuries/situations happening with the team that really disrupted team chemistry . . . but followed by key people getting healthy, most notably Bogi.  We are currently 4 - 5 with Bogi, but we have also not played with our full starting lineup in tact since his arrival.

To me, the biggest issues we have are:

• End of game offense ( specifically when we have the lead )
• Player rotations based on who is playing the best throughout the game
• BBIQ and hustle on the defensive end

 

The first two issues, in my opinion, can absolutely be fixed by the coach.  The coach can dictate who is the first option on offense in those situations, and what the other players are doing in those situations.  And from a player rotation standpoint, the coach can control who is on the floor at any particular time, regardless of set rotation or minute restriction.

The last thing is on the players.  Getting people to actually play hard and hustle can be preached by the coach, but the players have to do it.  The Hawks, specifically, get outhustled all the time, especially when it comes to defensive rebounding and getting to loose balls.  And if you really watch the video, the people not hustling may surprise you.  Or it may be obvious.

[JeffS17]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Tony is never trading Trae. Why? So he can go back to 60-70% attendance. Trae is a box office star that kids love, replacing that is next to impossible. Realistically, trading Trae is way far down the list regardless if it makes us better or not. As long as Trae is selling them tickets, we will try to continue to figure out how we can build this around him to win a title. 

Hard agree on this.  As fans, winning in #1 priority but that is not ownership primary goal.  Winning is a means to an end, but it's not the only means.  Trae sells tickets, creates highlights, and draws in the casual fans.  He's not going anywhere.  Season ticket sales are at a franchise all-time high right now, and it's not because Clint Capela is anchoring the defense, and it's not because people want to perennially watch Hunter funnel his man into CC or lumber around shooting 45% and collecting 4 boards a game.

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Haha.  Seems replacements can walk in and benefit from getting back to basics, so to speak.  Letting the air clear.

It's hard to tell if they're actually elevating or are just getting the car back in the road.

I'm thinking we have our answer here.

I think change motivates people.  It creates a milestone marker that is motivating -- whether that be because they didn't like the old coach or it's just a wake up call for everyone to get their shit together.  I genuinely think just about any coach could have taken us to the ECF finals that year.  You need a lot more than empty slogans and cheerleading for sustained success though

[Diesel]

25 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Lloyd Pierce's replacement had us looking like contenders.

That's because we were!

You all who deny our 2021 playoff run should be hung by your toes.   These were not 1 offs.   We beat NY...  in a series.   We beat Philly... in a series (7 games)... We won 2 out of 6 from Milwuakee.. .in a series. 

1 game you could say Fluke... but when we beat NY  4 times and Philadelphia 4 times.. that's not the time that you discredit those teams, that's the time that you start to give our team some f***ing credit!!

 

[JeffS17]

Just now, Diesel said:

That's because we were!

You all who deny our 2021 playoff run should be hung by your toes.   These were not 1 offs.   We beat NY...  in a series.   We beat Philly... in a series (7 games)... We won 2 out of 6 from Milwuakee.. .in a series. 

1 game you could say Fluke... but when we beat NY  4 times and Philadelphia 4 times.. that's not the time that you discredit those teams, that's the time that you start to give our team some f***ing credit!!

 

I also believe we were that year, but I don't just blindly attribute that to the head coach.  If anything, I attribute our success that year to Clint Capela playing like a DPOY, and Trae Young doing Trae Young things -- inside of LPs offensive system, which yielded infinitely better results than what Nate has for us on that side of the floor.

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I think change motivates people.  It creates a milestone marker that is motivating -- whether that be because they didn't like the old coach or it's just a wake up call for everyone to get their shit together.  I genuinely think just about any coach could have taken us to the ECF finals that year.  You need a lot more than empty slogans and cheerleading for sustained success though

This is B.S..  There are several teams... every year... that changes coaches and nothing ever happens.  No wins come about.   The team doesn't become better.   So it becomes change just for change sake.