Hawks in talks with Snyder

[AHF]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

I Cant see us having 2 players better than Trae either... Not on this roster anyway..

If we get two players better than Trae just start engraving "Atlanta Hawks" on the trophy.

[sturt]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

If he is highly valued, he will be head coach of a team next year.  He has had two years already and no one has hired him.  When I think of a coach who is "highly valued", I think they don't really have a problem getting their next job.

Everyone... well, virtually everyone anyway... has a problem getting their next job when there's only 30 of them out there.

I don't agree with the "highly" in "highly valued," either, but you're setting the bar unreasonably high, imo.

It takes awhile to establish yourself as a ubiquitously-coveted option, unless you're among the very very few that have enjoyed a high level of success very early in your career.

 

(And. Did I mention the venom for our ex-coaches, as a rule, is super unbalanced and unreasonable, imo?)

 

[Wretch]

2 hours ago, Afro said:

 

100%. The only time I met any Hawks fans was when I lived IN Atlanta. The second you go outside the perimeter....they all disappear lol. 

I wear a black Hawks polo a decent amount of the time. Every time I meet a new group of people for something someone always asks, "Wait, you're like, an actual Hawks fan?". 

This happened to me with an actual Hawks player.  My wife worked for a doctor that did business with Grant Long's medical supply company and he made deliveries in person sometimes.  He shows up there one day and they call me - of course I lose all my collective sh!t talking to him...and I just spew my Hawks fandom all over him.

Grant was legit surprised at how well I knew him, his stats, lesser known Hawks, and how long I had been following the team.  He kept saying, "Wow, you're a Hawks fan for real.  You're actually a real Atlanta Hawks fan."

[theheroatl]

 

 

 

I feel very strongly that this is a great hire. I guess this can go down as in the post archives as my position when we look back on results in 5 years lol.

Edited February 24, 2023 by theheroatl

[KB21]

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

A lot of popular... dare I say, also, "shallow"... conclusions in this thread that avoid the evidence.

But it's okay.

I'm just happy to be able to provide the public service that I do.

 

 

 

Carry on.

I think you are ignoring how the offense and roster developed under Nate.  Under LP, we went out and added 3pt shooting talent to the roster.  Over time under Nate we emphasized the midrange more both in gameplay and in roster construction to our detriment.  

It isn't just about comparing year 1 and 2.  You also have to consider year 3 - this season.  Under LP/Nate we were #12 best in 3pt% and #3 best in 3pt% defense.  Under Nate, we have had some real struggles being among the worst on both ends (#22 this season in 3pt% and near the bottom in attempts and #28 last year in 3pt% defense).  

I do think that there is some truth to the idea that Nate's lack of concern about 3pt shooting was a problem.  I will grant that I am reading some into this that Nate was less concerned about losing Huerter's perimeter shooting and more eager to embrace DM's midrange shooting than other coaches would be when we don't have full visibility into the GM side of things.  But TS certainly emphasized 3pt talent in roster construction early and often and the longer Nate has been here the worse the roster and execution have been in that area and I don't think that is a coincidence.

 

[sturt]

So, definite maybe?

[AHF]

Just now, sturt said:

So, definite maybe?

I hated Nate's public statements about his approach and think we saw a lot of the same problems here that he had elsewhere so I'm confident about that.

Was it better with LP's framework in place but with Nate's hand on the wheel?  That is a maybe for me.

I'm glad he is gone and confident after what he showed in terms of philosophy, execution and commitment that this will be his last head coaching position.

[KB21]

Feels like this is done before the weekend is over.

[theheroatl]

3 minutes ago, sturt said:

So, definite maybe?

I would say it is somewhere between Probable and Questionable on the injury report scale.

 

Probable – If a player is probable, he is almost definitely playing. Players on this list usually miss some practice time or are bothered by a minor ailment. In a classic move from Bill Bellichick, he had Tom Brady listed as probable for a few years despite not missing any time.

Questionable – This designation is the only one that has proven to be legitimate. A player listed as questionable may or may not play, and it’s right around a 50/50 shot.

Doubtful – A player listed as doubtful is almost definitely not playing. Many teams like to leave the possibility open that the player will play, but as stated in the earlier study, only 3% of players listed as doubtful actually do play.

Out – This is as simple as it gets. If a player is listed as out, then he is definitely not playing in the upcoming game.

Edited February 24, 2023 by theheroatl

[sturt]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think you are ignoring how the offense and roster developed under Nate.  Under LP, we went out and added 3pt shooting talent to the roster.  Over time under Nate we emphasized the midrange more both in gameplay and in roster construction to our detriment.  

It isn't just about comparing year 1 and 2.  You also have to consider year 3 - this season.  Under LP/Nate we were #12 best in 3pt% and #3 best in 3pt% defense.  Under Nate, we have had some real struggles being among the worst on both ends (#22 this season in 3pt% and near the bottom in attempts and #28 last year in 3pt% defense).  

I do think that there is some truth to the idea that Nate's lack of concern about 3pt shooting was a problem.  I will grant that I am reading some into this that Nate was less concerned about losing Huerter's perimeter shooting and more eager to embrace DM's midrange shooting than other coaches would be when we don't have full visibility into the GM side of things.  But TS certainly emphasized 3pt talent in roster construction early and often and the longer Nate has been here the worse the roster and execution have been in that area and I don't think that is a coincidence.

 

 

I am, indeed. I am ignoring how the sausage was made. I'm disinterested in all the analysis for the same reasons that I'm disinterested in assessing what happens if we add a teaspoon more of this spice, and subtract a cup of this other, and what if we otherwise modify how we mix the ingredients together.

The sausage speaks for itself by virtue of its success once packaged and put out in the market.

 

Last season's sausage sales is being disparaged and lumped in (yes, "shallowly") with this season's sausage sales--the latter of which, is actually, irrefutuably, a disappointing season of sausage sales.

But there's something to the assessment that maybe the quality of the meat itself, and not the chef, is the primary concern, when we actually attempt to look at it objectively.

 

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

I hated Nate's public statements about his approach and think we saw a lot of the same problems here that he had elsewhere so I'm confident about that.

Was it better with LP's framework in place but with Nate's hand on the wheel?  That is a maybe for me.

I'm glad he is gone and confident after what he showed in terms of philosophy, execution and commitment that this will be his last head coaching position.

(Sorry... I shoulda/coulda quoted the tweet... that was what my comment was directed toward.)

 

[LucastheThird]

 

 

[KB21]

I'm so damn excited!!

[Sothron]

FWIW I was told this is looking like it will happen. Korver really pushed Quin and Tony wants to make this happen. Snyder has told the team he likes the players and he feels he can get more out of our offense and defense. 

[sturt]

Well, I do think we should be encouraged by this, though, seriously.

Tony evidently didn't say, "No, Quin, you can't have that level of authority."

Quin evidently didn't say, "No, Tony, the money you're willing to put into the payroll just isn't sufficient."

Either of those could have easily broken off talking by now.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Are they though?

NBA head coach jobs don't fall off trees.

To be fair to Lloyd... not that anyone here is ever especially interested in being fair to any former ATL head coach... hehe... yeah, there's a definite pattern there... hehehe...

1. It's quite normal for a head coach to go somewhere to be an assistant for awhile before rising to the top of the list for some team's vacancy. Nothing unusual about that.

2. Lloyd did land with a team whose coach is among the generally-well-regarded head coaches in the league.

3. Pops can't hire everybody. But there can be little doubt that Pops thinks highly of Lloyd. We can debate how much of that is about basketball versus how much of it is about politics, but his sincerity in his comments shouldn't be blown off.

I'm not disagreeing you with you in this post so much as connecting your post to the idea that LP is "highly valued" as could be seen in some of the "hit piece" articles where he is described as a "brilliant" coach who was run off by Trae.  It is highly unusual in my mind for a "highly valued" NBA coach to go be an assistant somewhere else.

A few example of highly valued coaches:

Mike D'Antoni when he left Phoenix

Bud when he left Atlanta

Thibs when he left Chicago

Billy Donovan when he left Oklahoma

Rick Carlisle when he left Detroit and Dallas

I think it is not unusual for someone who isn't highly valued to go work as an assistant.  Those would be people like:

Mike Woodson when he left Atlanta

Nate Bjorkgren when he left Indiana

Kenny Atkinson when he left Brooklyn

They can use that to rebuild their resume, work on relationships and bettering themselves, and try to put their hat back into the ring later.

I don't think that everyone who lands another head coaching job is "highly valued."  Luke Walton was lucky to get another head coaching job without having to do some downtime after his tenure in LA but that definitely happens. Others just walk away from the game for a bit while they wait for the next head coaching job.

I think it was absolutely the right move for LP to take an assistant role on a good team.  

Your comment about people not being fair to any former ATL head coach would say that his value is artificially hurt by having worked in Atlanta and thus he is definitely not "highly valued" as a head coaching candidate.

[Afro]

10 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

 

 

 

Congrats on being 4th place. You get no medal lol

[sturt]

6 minutes ago, Sothron said:

FWIW I was told this is looking like it will happen. Korver really pushed Quin and Tony wants to make this happen. Snyder has told the team he likes the players and he feels he can get more out of our offense and defense. 

But won't it come down to what Landry wants?!?

 

 

 

 

 

(I know. I should be nicer to Landry. I was pretty much okay with him until this week's presser when his youth really showed through... like a 16 year-old wanting to persuade everyone he's mature enough to make his own decisions... that was just a weird moment... or few minutes.)

 

[Afro]

 

 

All the people clowning us for this can now go EAD

[djjob23]

24 minutes ago, sturt said:

Well, first, I didn't specify any one individual in my allegation of "shallow" conclusions.

But clearly I was speaking to one conclusion in particular that's been asserted my multiple Squawkers in this thread.

 

And second, you agreed with that one.

 

And third, it won't ... though it should ... change agreement on that one by whoever has endorsed it.

 

It's important to note that unless you are in the locker room (I am not), this is all speculation. Regardless of other issues/injuries that occurred after ECF run (which I agree do contribute to those season records), I still believe that Nate's system and player development was worse than LP's and LP's motivation was worse than Nate's (thus possibly help balance out the records). Sadly, a coach's motivation is fleeting based on factors such as respect, trust, and results. No results can lead to no trust can lead to no respect can lead to no motivation.

There are so many factors to take into account when trying to compare one season to another, but I agree with @JayBirdHawk  that the offense after the ECF run got worse for this teams makeup that thrived in a fast paced system with efficient 3's and shots at the rim. The eye test confirms this. Nate's system (like JC said) would be a better fit for a more veteran group, which is not us. If we can get Quin on board, I think his system and motivation (if team buys in) is going to have us perform at a much higher level than what Lloyd or Nate were able to accomplish. 

35 minutes ago, Afro said:

YES! LET'S GET IT DONE!!!