2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[Wretch]

13 hours ago, KB21 said:

I’d at least like to give those young assets a chance with a real coach and real system, because they have had neither to this point. 

I don't disagree.  I don't believe in change for the sake of change and I'm not a fan of making big moves for anything other than basketball reasons.  I'm partial to developing young talent and am 100% against mortgaging assets for short-term gain.

At the same time, this is not a game where you can sit on your hands.  There's a window of opportunity where contenders are made that is equal parts player evaluation, timing, and honestly...luck.  While we nurse our sacred cows, there is a 100% chance that some team will find that right combination.  

Meanwhile, there's really no "wait and see."  It's just putting all of our eggs in player development hopes and it really is a one-way street.  As we fully evaluate our own talent...the league gets to fully evaluate it as well.  That's the thing about "potential" and is a big reason why why I'm so particular about having a good front office. 

It's a delicate task to be sure or better yet, as a wise man once said...

Spoiler

[Afro]

6 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I think our root issues are two-fold given the tanking route:

• Handed out big contracts before players earned them
• Player development was sorely lacking

These two issues are pretty interrelated.

It's pretty evident looking at the salaries list. The Hawks have 4 guys in that 50ish-80ish range, and like 2 of them are unquestionably worth it? 

It's hard to look at our roster and think its worthy of luxury tax level. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Afro

[Watchman]

5 minutes ago, Afro said:

So what do you do with JJ? I'm just not sure I see this as some great detriment to the future of the Hawks. They have, at least, 2 very good options to fill Collins minutes. So why go into the tax for a player who isnt a need? 

Again, Im fully with yall about the value of this trade, but that ship sailed 3 years ago. Financially, do y'all really want them to go into the tax for Collins? And then next year have to dump him for probably even less(attaching picks TO him) so you can pay the guys you have to like DJ and OO? 

JJ would need to learn how to shoot first (including free throws.)

[Afro]

3 minutes ago, Watchman said:

JJ would need to learn how to shoot first (including free throws.)

Fair, then what about next year? 

Would you rather get a 2nd for Collins or have to give up a 2nd for Collins or would you have preferred other players get shipped out?  

[Watchman]

7 minutes ago, Afro said:

Fair, then what about next year? 

Would you rather get a 2nd for Collins or have to give up a 2nd for Collins or would you have preferred other players get shipped out?  

I think having Quin and getting finger surgery would put him back to at least an 18/10 guy, especially if we could get Capela out of the lane.  If you do those things, neither of your alternatives are likely.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Watchman

[Afro]

5 minutes ago, Watchman said:

I think having Quin and getting finger surgery would put him back to at least an 18/10 guy, especially if we could get Capela out of the lane.  If you do those things, neither of your alternatives are likely.

Where is Capela supposed to go lol or do you mean gone completely? 

Also, I'm just not sure I agree going *another* year hoping that Collins improves his stock is a good gamble. That's why were here in the first place. I'm not sure Collins performance is the only factor here. He would have to improve a lot for teams to want that contract. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Afro

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, Watchman said:

I think having Quin and getting finger surgery would put him back to at least an 18/10 guy, especially if we could get Capela out of the lane.  If you do those things, neither of your alternatives are likely.

I thought I read somewhere surgery will not fix his finger(?) which is why he hasn't done it

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, Watchman said:

I think having Quin and getting finger surgery would put him back to at least an 18/10 guy, especially if we could get Capela out of the lane.  If you do those things, neither of your alternatives are likely.

Despite folks' odd disdain for Collins, he was likely in line for an ascension play-wise under our new coach whether we made changes or not.

That said, I believe the same for JJ and AJ, so I'm not terribly upset at the fact that Collins was dealt.  The return is the main issue for me.  

[Afro]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Despite folks' odd disdain for Collins, he was likely in line for an ascension play-wise under our new coach whether we made changes or not.

That said, I believe the same for JJ and AJ, so I'm not terribly upset at the fact that Collins was dealt.  The return is the main issue for me.  

His minutes dropped from 31 mpg pre-February to 28mpg post February/Quinn though. 

[Final_quest]

19 minutes ago, Afro said:

It's pretty evident looking at the salaries list. The Hawks have 4 guys in that 50ish-80ish range, and like 2 of them are unquestionably worth it? 

It's hard to look at our roster and think its worthy of luxury tax level. 

That's what I've been saying.  So many people are caught up with our decision to not pay BOTH Huerter and Bogi $32M to backup the same position.  That one decision has triggered a lot of fans to the point where they want to pay mediocre guys $20M/year each and have one of the highest payrolls in the league. 

You need to have discretion with your cap AND be willing to spend.  This JC move could really help us get towards both goals.  They have one year to do something with the biggest TPE in the league.  I still predict it will get used.  It's way too valuable to do nothing with it as the primary asset from the Collins trade.  

[Watchman]

21 minutes ago, Afro said:

Where is Capela supposed to go lol or do you mean gone completely? 

Also, I'm just not sure I agree going *another* year hoping that Collins improves his stock is a good gamble. That's why were here in the first place. I'm not sure Collins performance is the only factor here. He would have to improve a lot for teams to want that contract. 

I mean traded.   He was terrible as the playoffs progressed.  Maybe we could get another trade exception and a second rounder.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Watchman

[Watchman]

9 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

That's what I've been saying.  So many people are caught up with our decision to not pay BOTH Huerter and Bogi $32M to backup the same position.  That one decision has triggered a lot of fans to the point where they want to pay mediocre guys $20M/year each and have one of the highest payrolls in the league. 

You need to have discretion with your cap AND be willing to spend.  This JC move could really help us get towards both goals.  They have one year to do something with the biggest TPE in the league.  I still predict it will get used.  It's way too valuable to do nothing with it as the primary asset from the Collins trade.  

If any team can find a way to mess it up, it would be the Hawks.

[KB21]

I'm curious to see if the TPE gets used in a deal to net the Hawks Royce O'Neale and Dorrian Finney-Smith from Brooklyn?  Obviously, draft pick assets will need to be attached.  DFS makes a lot of sense if they do move on from De'Andre Hunter this off season.  

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, Afro said:

His minutes dropped from 31 mpg pre-February to 28mpg post February/Quinn though. 

...and he also shot 25% pre Quin and 37% post Quin from 3.

[Afro]

4 minutes ago, Watchman said:

I mean traded.   He was terrible as the playoffs progressed.

Oh okay. 

Im kind of on team semi-blow it up/reset. I don't mind getting off all of Collins, Capela, Hunter. Get a backup big and a cheaper pure 3 and D guy. 

Pay OO, DJM(if things improve slightly), maybe Bey at the right price next year and have a core of Trae, DJ, AJ, JJ, OO, maybe Bey, an overpriced shooter in Bogie, fill in the gaps and try to add one other big piece somewhere.  

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Obviously, draft pick assets will need to be attached. 

Which in the long run is paying to get off JC with draft picks to acquire guys like O'Neal and DFS.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

But to Supes point, that is really the only way we make any kind of splashy trade.  Bringing in a player under $25M that sends us into the tax has about a 0.000001% chance likelihood.  The only situation where we actually go into the tax is if we land a big fish and it's [probably] a part of the Collins trade framework. 

So all the buzz about this TPE being some grand consolation prize is pretty meaningless, no?  Who really thinks we're going to go grab some mediocre player that sends us marginally into the tax?  If we were going to do that, we wouldn't have traded Collins in the first place.

I think the most likely path to a splashy trade is doing a two for one where we give up two players for the one we acquire.  Example:  DM and Capela for Gobert.  (Not saying I think this is a good idea.)  I think it is more likely if we make a splashy move that we still won't pay the tax so it is a splashy move where we would be matching salaries, not relying on the TPE to add dollars to the payroll.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I think the most likely path to a splashy trade is doing a two for one where we give up two players for the one we acquire.  Example:  DM and Capela for Gobert.  (Not saying I think this is a good idea.)  I think it is more likely if we make a splashy move that we still won't pay the tax so it is a splashy move where we would be matching salaries, not relying on the TPE to add dollars to the payroll.

More like a 3 team where Capela gets us an asset and young player from let's for example say Sacramento for Mitchell and Hawks trade Hunter for Gobert would for example as a framework. This ain't a real deal, just an example

[BangHolman]

33 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I thought I read somewhere surgery will not fix his finger(?) which is why he hasn't done it

That's correct. Surgery is fusing his joints together and he would actually have less mobility than he already has.

[JayBirdHawk]

If we are giving up Capela plus vs what Dallas is supposedly giving up for Ayton......this makes ZERO sense for us to do:

The Phoenix Suns and Dallas Mavericks engaged in advanced discussions on a trade of Deandre Ayton during the draft before talks stalled, sources tell Marc Stein of Substack.

The trade would have sent Ayton to Dallas for Tim Hardaway Jr., Richaun Holmes and JaVale McGee, but the Suns objected to the inclusion of McGee. Even though the Suns wouldn't have acquired any future first round picks, they liked turning Ayton into two rotation players in Hardaway and Holmes.

Sources tell Stein that the talks could be resumed.

For now, the Suns reportedly are moving forward with Ayton on their roster. Ayton is represented by Bill Duffy, who also is the agent for Luka Doncic.

Beyond re-signing Kyrie Irving, the Mavericks have prioritized an upgrade at center this offseason. They previously engaged with the Atlanta Hawks on a trade for Clint Capela. Atlanta insisted on the Mavericks accepting John Collins instead, or adding Josh Green to the deal to include Capela. The Hawks moved on to a trade of Collins to the Utah Jazz on Monday.