2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[theheroatl]

1 hour ago, Hawkish said:

I understand.  The theory of KAT’s offensive skillset could fit.  His pending $50+M salary for a non-leader, generally soft player does not.

Ditto.. just when I thought the KAT nonsense would fade.. Give it a break people we still trying to wait out the Siakam stuff.. I can't handle two timelines at the same time

[JayBirdHawk]

18 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

Ditto.. just when I thought the KAT nonsense would fade.. Give it a break people we still trying to wait out the Siakam stuff.. I can't handle two timelines at the same time

How about if I add a third timeline?   what if I told you there is a mystery 3rd team? . I think @kg01 finally made the trip to the future.

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, Hawkish said:

I understand.  The theory of KAT’s offensive skillset could fit.  His pending $50+M salary for a non-leader, generally soft player does not.

KAT doesn't have to be a leader here.  On the court, we have DJM who's attitude and leadership is unquestionable and infectious.  On the sidelines we have Quin Snyder who is quite literally the best leader money can buy in the NBA.   

Moreover, the leader of the team is not always the highest paid player or the "toughest."  Steph isn't tough.  Neither is Durant.  Paul Pierce wasn't "tough."  These are just really good players.  KAT is also really good and that's what you pay him for.  He wouldn't be coming here to lead us to a championship. 

His responsibility would be just to create problems for the defense.  In the post, he is 100% gravity and a 39% shooter behind the arc.  Combine that with Trae who has an equal amount of gravy as soon as he steps over the half-court line and Quin directing traffic.  That is a nightmare to defend and will be nothing short of a miraculous get if we can secure him - especially with the packages that have been discussed.  Not only that, but you can guarantee that Snyder is sitting at the table when they're having that discussion.  If he's signed off on it, that's more than good enough for me.

On a final note, I also would put money on Snyder getting Trae to the next level.  We've had a lot of conversations about his maturity and how it's held him back, but Trae is a solid veteran now and he can't say enough about how much he's learning from our new coach.   He and DJM will hold down leadership. 

[LucastheThird]

KAT to the Hawks is better than Siakam to the Hawks. 

 

Don't come to me about money, it isn't coming out of either of our accounts, and that's for Landry to figure out. 

 

KAT is the needle mover, Siakam is a treadmill player

[Hawkish]

1 minute ago, LucastheThird said:

KAT to the Hawks is better than Siakam to the Hawks. 

 

Don't come to me about money, it isn't coming out of either of our accounts, and that's for Landry to figure out. 

 

KAT is the needle mover, Siakam is a treadmill player

I will ultimately support whatever move is made.

[theheroatl]

10 minutes ago, Hawkish said:

I will ultimately support whatever move is made.

this is where we are at. this is the way.. we are accepting. just make it happen

[Hawkish]

3 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

this is where we are at. this is the way.. we are accepting. just make it happen

Right — If Quin signs off, I have to believe there is a compelling vision in his mind.

[GameTime]

3 hours ago, thecampster said:

People on this board have asked why we say "we can't talk about that yet" or "I'm allowed to say".  This nonsense with Siakam is a perfect example of why teams hate leaks. Think of all the names linked to the Siakam deal and all of the make nice the teams are having to do with the players involved. No one wants to play in Canada. If you were Clint, Hunter, Griffin, etc....how would you feel right now knowing your team was planning on moving you to Canada without your consent?

 

and I blame the Hawks here. The whole Siakam thing was a fall back plan/leverage plan in the KAT negotiations. They should have been tighter in all of it.

 

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

KAT to the Hawks is better than Siakam to the Hawks. 

 

Don't come to me about money, it isn't coming out of either of our accounts, and that's for Landry to figure out. 
 

KAT is the needle mover, Siakam is a treadmill player

... about that.  So I heard about some research a noted economist did on this very subject.  He apparently compiled actual data and projections (I think) to calculate just how much money players make for (a) their team and (b) the league overall.  Essentially trying to answer are players actually overpaid or stte.

I recall the commenter explaining that the top 20-30 players are underpaid regardless of salary.  Using Lebron as the example, he said Lebron makes $50mil for the Lakers specifically.  Then he generates an additional $50mil for the league and other teams - via merch sales, increased ticket rev, additional TV money, etc.  Of course, Lebron is special.  But other players that are a draw also have a similar effect.  I imagine Trae is on the shortlist of players that have this kind of economic impact.  I'm a little dubious on Towns being on that list, however, the overall point is that we shouldn't be so caught up on player salaries.  The owners wouldn't be paying the salaries if they weren't getting ROI. 

I'm going to read the report if I can find it.

[LucastheThird]

12 minutes ago, kg01 said:

... about that.  So I heard about some research a noted economist did on this very subject.  He apparently compiled actual data and projections (I think) to calculate just how much money players make for (a) their team and (b) the league overall.  Essentially trying to answer are players actually overpaid or stte.

I recall the commenter explaining that the top 20-30 players are underpaid regardless of salary.  Using Lebron as the example, he said Lebron makes $50mil for the Lakers specifically.  Then he generates an additional $50mil for the league and other teams - via merch sales, increased ticket rev, additional TV money, etc.  Of course, Lebron is special.  But other players that are a draw also have a similar effect.  I imagine Trae is on the shortlist of players that have this kind of economic impact.  I'm a little dubious on Towns being on that list, however, the overall point is that we shouldn't be so caught up on player salaries.  The owners wouldn't be paying the salaries if they weren't getting ROI. 

I'm going to read the report if I can find it.

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-most-underpaid-players-history-lebron-giannis-luka/

Don't think this is quite the research article you were talking about. But Trae does make the list here as #8 underpaid all time. 
 

Seasons overpaid vs. underpaid: 0-4
Real Value: $102,941,899
Career earnings: $26,534,551
Difference: $76,407,348 (287.95 percent)

Similar to Doncic, Trae Young has been an All-Star, borderline All-NBA-level guy from his second season on, which, unfortunately for him was during his time on a rookie-scale contract.

Young was most underpaid in 2020-21 when he put up 25.3 points and 9.4 assists while making $6.6 million, $24.4 million less than the $31.0 million Real Value believes he was worth that season.

It shouldn’t come as a surprise that the Hawks were able to reach the Eastern Conference Finals that year, with Young on such a value contract.


Also KAT makes the list at #25. Siakam doesn't make the cut. 

 

Seasons overpaid vs. underpaid: 3-4
Real Value: $156,743,801
Career earnings: $114,123,435
Difference: $42,620,366 (37.35 percent)

One of the best floor-spacing, high-level scoring big men of his era, Karl-Anthony Towns was excellent right away as an NBA player, greatly outplaying his contract right off the bat.

In 2016-17, Towns’ second season in the league, the Kentucky Wildcat averaged 25.1 points and 12.3 rebounds while shooting 54.2 percent from the floor. He made $6.0 million that season while his Real Value was $24.1 million, closer to a max contract at the time and a difference of $18.1 million.

Edited August 10, 2023 by LucastheThird

[JayBirdHawk]

41 minutes ago, kg01 said:

the overall point is that we shouldn't be so caught up on player salaries.

I've said before I'm over the player salaries.  My only interest is if we trade for a guy 'can we retain him'

Every year before free agency we discuss this...then FAcy starts and owners hand out contracts like Halloween candy time and again.  It's a never ending cycle.  You are either in it or not!

[kg01]

18 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-most-underpaid-players-history-lebron-giannis-luka/

Don't think this is quite the research article you were talking about. But Trae does make the list here as #8 underpaid all time. 
 

Seasons overpaid vs. underpaid: 0-4
Real Value: $102,941,899
Career earnings: $26,534,551
Difference: $76,407,348 (287.95 percent)

Similar to Doncic, Trae Young has been an All-Star, borderline All-NBA-level guy from his second season on, which, unfortunately for him was during his time on a rookie-scale contract.

Young was most underpaid in 2020-21 when he put up 25.3 points and 9.4 assists while making $6.6 million, $24.4 million less than the $31.0 million Real Value believes he was worth that season.

It shouldn’t come as a surprise that the Hawks were able to reach the Eastern Conference Finals that year, with Young on such a value contract.


Also KAT makes the list at #25. Siakam doesn't make the cut. 

 

Seasons overpaid vs. underpaid: 3-4
Real Value: $156,743,801
Career earnings: $114,123,435
Difference: $42,620,366 (37.35 percent)

One of the best floor-spacing, high-level scoring big men of his era, Karl-Anthony Towns was excellent right away as an NBA player, greatly outplaying his contract right off the bat.

In 2016-17, Towns’ second season in the league, the Kentucky Wildcat averaged 25.1 points and 12.3 rebounds while shooting 54.2 percent from the floor. He made $6.0 million that season while his Real Value was $24.1 million, closer to a max contract at the time and a difference of $18.1 million.

Oh and another important part of the analysis the guy did was the spread between (a) what Lebron (to keep with the example I stated) makes vs (b) what he's actually paid.  That "spread" is actual money.

So, conceptually, the team is paying Lebron a LOT.  But they're actually making more.  And they can use that "spread" to offset losses from overpaying the players that are not draws. 

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Oh and another important part of the analysis the guy did was the spread between (a) what Lebron (to keep with the example I stated) makes vs (b) what he's actually paid.  That "spread" is actual money.

So, conceptually, the team is paying Lebron a LOT.  But they're actually making more.  And they can use that "spread" to offset losses from overpaying the players that are not draws. 

That is also why the trade Trae for guys like Towns, Ingram, Jaylen Brown etc doesn't make sense from the 'draw' standpoint.  The Hawks would need to really need to see a path to winning big on the court for those kind of trades to matter.  Messy Ressy understands this, so unless his ledger with Trae starts to change drastically, Trae will be around for awhile.

[Bonkers]

3 hours ago, thecampster said:

People on this board have asked why we say "we can't talk about that yet" or "I'm allowed to say".  This nonsense with Siakam is a perfect example of why teams hate leaks. Think of all the names linked to the Siakam deal and all of the make nice the teams are having to do with the players involved. No one wants to play in Canada. If you were Clint, Hunter, Griffin, etc....how would you feel right now knowing your team was planning on moving you to Canada without your consent?

 

and I blame the Hawks here. The whole Siakam thing was a fall back plan/leverage plan in the KAT negotiations. They should have been tighter in all of it.

ALL OF THIS!!!

 

The Hawks might have sum disgruntled players on their hands because of all this Siakam bullsh*t

 

They already did it with JC now they are doing it again!!!!

 

[timebomb]

26 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

ALL OF THIS!!!

 

The Hawks might have sum disgruntled players on their hands because of all this Siakam bullsh*t

 

They already did it with JC now they are doing it again!!!!

 

What? These guys are professionals they know what a GMs job is. AJ especially knows how the NBA works as his dad was traded multiple times during his career. They’re young guys yes but they’re not the star of team maybe then they could feel some way but otherwise you know it’s the NBA and hear guys say it all the time. They know the reality of the league.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, timebomb said:

What? These guys are professionals they know what a GMs job is. AJ especially knows how the NBA works as his dad was traded multiple times during his career. They’re young guys yes but they’re not the star of team maybe then they could feel some way but otherwise you know it’s the NBA and hear guys say it all the time. They know the reality of the league.

This is such a bad take! A stab in the back is a stab in the back. If you don't understand thst it is hard to play for a team who has no loyalty to you or the star player is secretly throwing you under the bus then you must not be human. No one can work efficiently under these circumstances. A team need to work cohesively which means they have to communicate effectively. Kinda hard to do when you hate your teammates, coaches or front office.

 

[Bonkers]

1 hour ago, timebomb said:

What? These guys are professionals they know what a GMs job is. AJ especially knows how the NBA works as his dad was traded multiple times during his career. They’re young guys yes but they’re not the star of team maybe then they could feel some way but otherwise you know it’s the NBA and hear guys say it all the time. They know the reality of the league.

Do you think there haven't been disgruntled NBA players before????

 

Are u serious right now?!?!?!?

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

the star player is secretly throwing you under the bus

tell me more

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

tell me more

John Collin's name was not mentioned in trades rumors until after that infamous meeting where he called out Trae's selfish 4th quarter play style 4 years ago. So a rational person can only conclude that someone had to be talking behind the scene.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

John Collin's name was not mentioned in trades rumors until after that infamous meeting where he called out Trae's selfish 4th quarter play style 4 years ago. So a rational person can only conclude that someone had to be talking behind the scene.

So you made it up?  Pretty scathing thing to say with literally no actual conformation.