2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Told y’all he not Klutch like y’all think he is 

He ended up at Klutch because his original agent, Omar Wilkes of Octagon went there, but he still remained Omar.

[JayBirdHawk]

I think AntMan also left Klutch to join CAA??

[KB21]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think AntMan also left Klutch to join CAA??

He’s with WME.  

[theheroatl]

1 hour ago, NekiEcko said:

So we are going to trade DJM, OO, AJ for Herbert Jones, Jarrent Allen and Caris LaVert?

Nope, that is not good deal at all.

 

You have no idea how drastically better we would be adding 

Herb Jones
Jarrett Allen

and possibly getting a Marcus Smart or Alex Caruso

That would be REAL INTELLIGENT GM'ing around Trae and JJ

Edited May 7 by theheroatl

[JayBirdHawk]

15 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He’s with WME.  

Interesting that Ant was also with Wilkes at Octagon.

Wilkes left Octagon this week to take over Klutch's basketball division. Founder Rich Paul, who previously headed the basketball department, is planning to focus on his role as CEO and continue his work expanding the agency's football and baseball business.

It's unclear if any of Wilkes' other clients will follow him to Klutch. Potential No. 1 overall pick Anthony Edwards, Toronto Raptors forward OG Anunoby and Young's Hawks teammate Cam Reddish were among Wilkes' clients at Octagon.

[theheroatl]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I’d rather do this. 

Jarrett Allen is a tremendous defender

 

Which should be the singular focus area of improvement on a dumpster fire defense for 3 years

 

Edited May 8 by theheroatl

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, Mikey said:

Told y’all he not Klutch like y’all think he is 

Now we know why......

Omar Wilkes, one of the NBA's most prominent agents, is leaving his post at sports agency Klutch Sports Group, founded by super-agent Rich Paul, to join digital sports platform Fanatics Inc.

[KB21]

17 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Interesting that Ant was also with Wilkes at Octagon.

Wilkes left Octagon this week to take over Klutch's basketball division. Founder Rich Paul, who previously headed the basketball department, is planning to focus on his role as CEO and continue his work expanding the agency's football and baseball business.

It's unclear if any of Wilkes' other clients will follow him to Klutch. Potential No. 1 overall pick Anthony Edwards, Toronto Raptors forward OG Anunoby and Young's Hawks teammate Cam Reddish were among Wilkes' clients at Octagon.

May or may not be interesting, but Chris Emens was with Omar at Octagon.  He was also Landry Fields’s agent and is currently an executive advisor with the Hawks.  

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, KB21 said:

May or may not be interesting, but Chris Emens was with Omar at Octagon.  He was also Landry Fields’s agent and is currently an executive advisor with the Hawks.  

Interesting article from 2020 when Trae moved to Klutch;

Quote

Rayford said the Youngs hadn’t envisioned leaving Octagon, which also has Steph Curry and Giannis Antetokounmpo as clients, because it was positioning Young to become one of the next faces of the agency. When it became known behind the scenes that Wilkes was leaving Octagon, Young talked with several heads of the agency but ultimately decided he didn’t want to lose the comfort level he had with Wilkes.

Young also talked with several agencies this past weekend, notably CAA and Roc Nation, which both pursued him when he was an NBA prospect. During some of the conversations he had with some agencies, some agents said he could end up making double his Hawks salary in off-the-court endeavors the next two years if he ended up signing with their agency. None of that mattered because no one could offer the chance to continue working with the man who he calls his “big brother” other than Kluch, and that was the difference.That’s what Octagon was fighting against after Wilkes left. Young could have stayed with Octagon and chosen Jeff Austin, Curry’s agent, or Alex Saratsis, Antetokounmpo’s agent, but Young didn’t have a formed relationship with either of them.

And if you know Young, loyalty to those he trusts is who he always has been at his core. Within minutes of suggesting Klutch was going to be the likely landing spot for Young, Twitter was abuzz with many NBA fans suggesting an inevitably of him joining the Los Angeles Lakers one day to pair with James and Davis. Photoshops of Young in a Lakers jersey appeared within the hour.But Rayford wanted to be very clear, this decision isn’t the first sign of what could come when his son’s contract with the Hawks expires.

“I wish people would look at his history,” Rayford said. “He’s never been a follower. When he won the Nike EYBL Peach Jam, he could have went to a super team after that. He turned down going to Oak Hill Academy, which is one of the top prep schools. People told him in high school that he wouldn’t be an All-American or a top recruit if he went to a local high school in Norman, Oklahoma. He averaged 44 points his senior year and was an All-American. Then they told him that he wouldn’t be a first-round pick if he went to Oklahoma. Calipari sat in our living room and told him, ‘If you want to be a lottery pick, you better come to Kentucky.’ He stayed with Oklahoma. He’s never been a follower. This whole thing with Klutch never had anything to do with going to play with the Lakers one day. They have a lot of people on their roster who aren’t with the Lakers.

“I would ask those fans who are fans of Trae or Atlanta fans to just look at his history. He knows this is a team effort, but he wants to have that statue next to Dominique (Wilkins) one day, man. I’ve told you this before, my son is 6-foot-1, but he thinks he’s the best player on the court no matter if LeBron is on the floor with him. Hopefully, it never backfires on him, but he’s got big balls and is very confident. He just knows what he wants to accomplish. I never think my son is going to join a super team unless they all come to Atlanta. He’s just got too much pride to do that. Maybe that pride will backfire, but who knows. My son has seen it happen here in Oklahoma City with (Kevin Durant). He wasn’t one of those who called him a cupcake, but he’s seen the backlash of something like that happen.

https://theathletic.com/1900730/2020/06/30/inside-the-pursuit-why-trae-young-signed-with-klutch-sports-and-what-it-means/

[KB21]

That’s a great article.  Really makes me believe that Trae will show loyalty to the Hawks if they truly show they are trying to build a winning team around him.  

[JTB]

18 hours ago, Sothron said:

One of my Hawks sources is fairly confident Ingram is coming to Atlanta and we're sending them DJM. Other pieces are involved and we're getting back at least one first rounder. 

I’m not mad about this especially if we are getting another pick we can use in this years draft.

11 hours ago, KB21 said:

When you also take into account that Jalen Johnson likely needs to have his role INCREASED as a secondary on the ball creator in the upcoming season, it really doesn't make any sense to add a guy like Ingram to the mix.  The need someone who is going to be a defender and a catch and shoot floor spacer.  

This is a good point but you act like BI can’t hit 3s!  

10 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

He got no one to get him good looks and a stagnant offensive system with no good facilitating PG or player to break down the defense and play make.  He would get plenty of opportunities from three playing with Trae.  You can't pull up a bballref page and predict the future based on the past when circumstances change dramatically. 

Every single criticism you guys have about Ingram's game can be said about the first 4 years of De'Andre Hunter and Quin had him taking more threes at his highest 3P% last year.  Players can develop new habits-- if we don't trust our coaching staff, no player is going to be a difference maker coming to Atlanta.

Very true!

10 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

He avg 6+ 3pt attempts per game with Lonzo Ball as the pg.  And then Lonzo wasn't the pg and he fell off a cliff.  In the years where he took a lot, he also led the team in c/s 3pt attempts one year and was 2nd the other year.  That tells me he'll take them when he's set up to take them.  If he's dribbling on his own and has to create, he's more apt to dribble into the mid range and take the tougher shot.  

I don't see why playing with Trae wouldn't create a ton of opportunities for him to take c/s 3s.  He's probably not ever going to eliminate the mid range, but there's no reason to think he can't change the shot allocation drastically.  

Hit em with the facts @REHawksFan ! …did @AHF see this ???

10 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Just to expound on the PG issue with BI...

In the 19-20 season, BI avg 6.1 3pt fga and shot 39.1%.  He had Lonzo Ball and Jrue Holiday as his PGs. He was assisted on 135 jump shots.  

In the 23-24 season, BI avg 3.8 3pt fga and shot 37%.  He had CJ McCollum as his main PG.  He was assisted on 75 jump shots.  

That's 60 fewer assisted makes on jumpers this year compared to when he had Ball and Holiday as his PGs.  

 

If you look at pullup off the dribble vs c/s jumpers:

19-20 with 2 pgs:  423 c/s and 199 off dribble

23-24 with 0 pgs:  155 c/s and 305 off dribble

 

You can't ignore the lack of PG for NO the last few seasons.  

 

Another excellent FACT from @REHawksFan….did @AHF @KB21 @kg01 see this ? 

8 hours ago, KB21 said:

Ingram really isn't a switchable defender.  He's not much of a defender at all, but he particularly struggles with power forwards and smaller, quicker guards.  

This isn’t true. BI’s defense has progressed well over these last two seasons. There are articles from this season with quotes from his teammates and opponents speaking about his improvement on defense. Saying this is the same perception about Traes defense who we all know also dramatically improved this season.

Im not calling BI a lockdown guy but he’s taken accountability to improve and still only 26.

5 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Bi and Dyson for DJ and Capela would be a tremendous trade for the Hawks.  if we get a first rounder out of it too then count me impressed.  

Agreed! It’s a damn good trade. Dyson will eventually work his way into some good minutes just like Bufkin. Two young defensive first guys isn’t a bad thing to have at all.

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

(Me being huge on BI, but too scared to post because @AHF's gonna tear me to pieces with perfect arguments.)

I don’t know…while @AHF did make some good arguments… @REHawksFan posted some facts that cannot be ignored when discussing BI and his fit with an ACTUAL point guard. BI shot plenty of 3s when he had Lonzo and Holiday…can’t just be ignoring the facts with personal feelings. And to @JeffS17 point, what good is our coach and his staff if he can’t force good winning habits …ALSO it’s wildly known that BI took more of a playing approach this past season which makes sense considering they have no one on the team who can run point .

i don’t care if folks don’t like BI, but don’t ignore obvious facts.

[NekiEcko]

45 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

 

You have no idea how drastically better we would be adding 

Herb Jones
Jarrett Allen

and possibly getting a Marcus Smart or Alex Caruso

That would be REAL INTELLIGENT GM'ing around Trae and JJ

Do you believe the Cavs or Pels would trade talents like Jones or Allen? I doubt it, but if it does happen, I'll be pleased, though it seems like a pipe dream.

[KB21]

There are going to be some surprised folks when the mid range maven doesn’t change his style to fit with Trae.  

[KB21]

Let’s trade for a mid range maven instead of getting a true floor spacer.   

[bird_dirt]

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

I played around with it on fanspo, and it would take more than what's listed to make it go.  

This works though financially:
Hawks trade Dejounte Murray and Oneyeka Okongwu to New Orleans, AJ Griffin to Cleveland.

New Orleans trades Brandon Ingram to Cleveland, Herbert Jones and 2024 FRP to Atlanta, 2025 FRP to Cleveland.

Cleveland trades Jarret Allen and Caris LaVert to Atlanta.

 

I would love this, so that means it has no chance of happening. 

[REHawksFan]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Let’s trade for a mid range maven instead of getting a true floor spacer.   

I know you keep saying it, but I just don't believe you. There's zero reason to believe he won't change his shot selection if he came to Atlanta. I get you don't like him, but your argument isn't even logical.

DJM had an even more skewed shot profile before coming to Atlanta and Quin turned him around. Same will happen with BI if he came here. 

The real argument against him is one based on his value vs his salary expectations. THAT'S the reason we shouldn't trade for him. Not some bogus narrative that he'll refuse to take 3s. 

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

The real argument against him is one based on his value vs his salary expectations. THAT'S the reason we shouldn't trade for him. 

I don't know that I want to pay the taller version of Murray twice as much though. Hawks are in desperate need of some DEFENSE, TOUGHNESS and GRIT on the wing and frontcourt.

[KB21]

Quin got DJ to shoot more threes but due to DJ’s insistence on getting to his spot, it wasn’t enough threes.  Ingram has never had a 3PAr higher than 0.35.  

[NekiEcko]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't know that I want to pay the taller version of Murray twice as much though. Hawks are in desperate need of some DEFENSE, TOUGHNESS and GRIT on the wing and frontcourt.

And those don't grow on trees. Plus, I don't want to pay BI that much money either, but... it is what it is.

[JayBirdHawk]

19 hours ago, Sothron said:

One of my Hawks sources is fairly confident Ingram is coming to Atlanta and we're sending them DJM. Other pieces are involved and we're getting back at least one first rounder. 

What are the OTHER piece(s)?

Hawks have to send out more salary, so who will it be?

Will this be a trade that happens once the season/playoffs ends but before the new league year or after July 1st?

Difference in ongoing salaries makes a difference:

Before July 1: BI $33.8 mil. DJ $18.2 mil.

After July 1: BI $36 mil. DJ $25.4 mil.