I hope the Siakam deal fails to go through.

[kg01]

On 11/1/2023 at 3:39 PM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I'm in a major meeting, and you almost made me burst out laughing.  Let me get off of here for a minute.

Man, I wish I'd seen this in real time.  I would've made it my mission to get you to lol creepily in the meeting.

Your lawyers are all like, "cyde, you're facing some serious charges here.  We're talking years of jail time in a Cambodian prison." 

[JayBirdHawk]

....and here we go again!

 

 

[theheroatl]

10 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....and here we go again!

 

 

At this point he is only worth Hunter.. he value declined a ton and keeps declining.

Raptors should have moved him, they are idiots. As for the Hawks, I just want a better defense dammit.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, theheroatl said:

At this point he is only worth Hunter.. he value declined a ton and keeps declining.

The difficulty is matching his $37 million in salary.

[Gray Mule]

Hawks "new" Hunter is much better than the old one.  This is the player we all thought that we had.  Finally seeing him as this "new" player, we become more and more unlikely to flush him down the drain.

I've been against this trade and still am.  Cost too much and takes too much of the $$$ payroll.

 

[kg01]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....and here we go again!

 

 

Adam's boss: "Epstein!  Youre not gettin enough clicks!"

Adam: "Time ta fire up the old standby.  John Collins trade rumors!  That always gets em.  No wait, he got traded this summer.  I know!  Siakim trade!"

[JayBirdHawk]

Hawks continue to monitor potential Pascal Siakam trade

The Atlanta Hawks continue to monitor Toronto Raptors forward Pascal Siakam as a potential trade target after attempting to acquire him during the offseason, league sources told HoopsHype. … Hawks forward De’Andre Hunter was among the players discussed during the Siakam talks, and his $20 million salary and versatility on both sides of the ball playing both forward spots at times makes him a trade candidate to watch in a potential deal.

 

– via Michael Scotto @ HoopsHype

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Hawks continue to monitor potential Pascal Siakam trade

The Atlanta Hawks continue to monitor Toronto Raptors forward Pascal Siakam as a potential trade target after attempting to acquire him during the offseason, league sources told HoopsHype. … Hawks forward De’Andre Hunter was among the players discussed during the Siakam talks, and his $20 million salary and versatility on both sides of the ball playing both forward spots at times makes him a trade candidate to watch in a potential deal.

 

– via Michael Scotto @ HoopsHype

Don’t shoot the messenger cagey.. or me  

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Hawks continue to monitor potential Pascal Siakam trade

The Atlanta Hawks continue to monitor Toronto Raptors forward Pascal Siakam as a potential trade target after attempting to acquire him during the offseason, league sources told HoopsHype. … Hawks forward De’Andre Hunter was among the players discussed during the Siakam talks, and his $20 million salary and versatility on both sides of the ball playing both forward spots at times makes him a trade candidate to watch in a potential deal.

 

– via Michael Scotto @ HoopsHype

Shouldn’t this be in a different thread  

[JeffS17]

Still a big fan of this trade.  I hope we stick with whatever offer Toronto didn't want to accept, too.  I'm sticking with one first rounder given Siakams salary and extension requests.  He would be tremendous for our defense, and longer term, we'd have a lot of lineup flexibility.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

17 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Still a big fan of this trade.  I hope we stick with whatever offer Toronto didn't want to accept, too.  I'm sticking with one first rounder given Siakams salary and extension requests.  He would be tremendous for our defense, and longer term, we'd have a lot of lineup flexibility.  

 

Same here.  Hawks need to pull the trigger on this.  Get that 3rd scorer ( who can at times be the lead scorer ) and his versatility on this team.  Then when Jalen comes back, play him at the 3.

 

Trae

DJ

JJ

Siakam

OO 

 

Bogi ( 6th )

Bey ( 7th )

Bruno ( 8th )

Wesley ( 9th )

Garrison ( 10th )

 

Then when the offseason comes, retool the team

[macdaddy]

I'm still pretty on the fence on Siakam because i'm not sure he's got that many good years left.  His game isn't one that ages well.  Also not sure JJ at the 3 works.  If we don't have to give up the farm i'm ok with it.

[theheroatl]

26 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Same here.  Hawks need to pull the trigger on this.  Get that 3rd scorer ( who can at times be the lead scorer ) and his versatility on this team.  Then when Jalen comes back, play him at the 3.

 

Trae

DJ

JJ

Siakam

OO 

 

Bogi ( 6th )

Bey ( 7th )

Bruno ( 8th )

Wesley ( 9th )

Garrison ( 10th )

 

Then when the offseason comes, retool the team

Swap Patty + Bruno for Caruso and we’re cooking

[warcore]

18 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Still a big fan of this trade.  I hope we stick with whatever offer Toronto didn't want to accept, too.  I'm sticking with one first rounder given Siakams salary and extension requests.  He would be tremendous for our defense, and longer term, we'd have a lot of lineup flexibility.  

He'll be gone this offseason so there is no longer term. 

[AHF]

45 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Same here.  Hawks need to pull the trigger on this.  Get that 3rd scorer ( who can at times be the lead scorer ) and his versatility on this team.  Then when Jalen comes back, play him at the 3.

 

Trae

DJ

JJ

Siakam

OO 

 

Bogi ( 6th )

Bey ( 7th )

Bruno ( 8th )

Wesley ( 9th )

Garrison ( 10th )

 

Then when the offseason comes, retool the team

Why would Toronto accept CC in the deal?  Seems like they already have a CC in Poetl and having two of them would be a bit of a train wreck in terms of basketball and financially (you don't pay $40M for the center position for two of these guys).

Now I like the idea of CC going out in a Siakam trade but I have a hard time seeing it without a third team involved (and a cheaper big man returning to us so it isn't OO / Bruno / ?).

[JeffS17]

3 hours ago, warcore said:

He'll be gone this offseason so there is no longer term. 

Any trade for him would already include a commitment to re-sign.  So trading for him and him leaving would be almost zero chance of happening.  He's been posturing for a supermax for the past 6 months, but his team will understand that's not going to happen sooner or later, and he cannot get as much money in FA anyways, so we'd be in control.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

Any trade for him would already include a commitment to re-sign.  So trading for him and him leaving would be almost zero chance of happening.  He's been posturing for a supermax for the past 6 months, but his team will understand that's not going to happen sooner or later, and he cannot get as much money in FA anyways, so we'd be in control.

Why do you think he would commit to resign in "any trade for him"?  He has been unusually public in refusing to give any indication that he will resign.  We've seen players walk in the past even after promising to resign.  There is absolutely risk.

Being able to offer him more money than anyone else is the only real security you can have before he has gotten in and decided if he likes his coaches, his city, and his teammates.  If his agents commit to resign that helps but is well above "almost zero" risk even in that scenario but I don't assume he will give any such commitment.  Unless we are willing to commit to max him out, there isn't a lot of incentive for him to make a commitment to resign.

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Why do you think he would commit to resign in "any trade for him"?  He has been unusually public in refusing to give any indication that he will resign.  We've seen players walk in the past even after promising to resign.  There is absolutely risk.

Being able to offer him more money than anyone else is the only real security you can have before he has gotten in and decided if he likes his coaches, his city, and his teammates.  If his agents commit to resign that helps but is well above "almost zero" risk even in that scenario but I don't assume he will give any such commitment.  Unless we are willing to commit to max him out, there isn't a lot of incentive for him to make a commitment to resign.

Because I do not assume that our front office is utterly incompetent.  Re-signing is more of a prerequisite to the trade than a risk.  I am assuming our front office is competent and would not trade for him without confirming he will re-sign.  Tbh he probably would anyways because there aren't going to be a lot of teams with the ability to free up cap space to sign him as a FA anyways and they wouldn't be able to pay as much as the Hawks.

So his public statements are great but as soon as he's traded, his situation is materially different and being in Toronto is not a possibility anyways.  All of his comments to pressure Toronto into giving him a supermax won't be relevant.  It's one of the more transparent player posturing in the media I've seen.  Anyways, is there any risk at all there?  Sure, but it's so small it's really not worth discussing imo

[AHF]

24 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Because I do not assume that our front office is utterly incompetent.  Re-signing is more of a prerequisite to the trade than a risk.  I am assuming our front office is competent and would not trade for him without confirming he will re-sign.  Tbh he probably would anyways because there aren't going to be a lot of teams with the ability to free up cap space to sign him as a FA anyways and they wouldn't be able to pay as much as the Hawks.

So his public statements are great but as soon as he's traded, his situation is materially different and being in Toronto is not a possibility anyways.  All of his comments to pressure Toronto into giving him a supermax won't be relevant.  It's one of the more transparent player posturing in the media I've seen.  Anyways, is there any risk at all there?  Sure, but it's so small it's really not worth discussing imo

If we aren't willing to outbid other people on a resigning, then I don't feel like we have any real security.  If we are willing to outbid everyone else, then the risk drops significantly.  If we are willing to max him, then there is a ton of risk imo but it isn't around whether he resigns.  It is around whether he could possibly live up to that contract as he heads into his 30's.  $50M a year for a guy at his age with his skills can turn into a John Collins contract pretty quickly.  Compare his production this year to JJ:

He is rebounding less, blocking fewer shots, stealing less, passing better, and scoring 4 more points on 5.5 more shots per 36 (which isn't good).  A .673% TS% is worlds better than Siakam's subpar .544% TS%.  And while that is low for him that isn't a complete outlier for Siakam.  He finished the season at .547% TS% in 2021 and was around .565% TS% in 2022 and 2023.  I'd rather have JJ's numbers. 

You could make the case that the only way Siakam justifies taking minutes from JJ at PF (if these numbers hold) is if his defense is worlds better.  And it should be materially better.  But I'm not sure any level of defense reasonably expected from Siakam could ever justify $50M a year at his level of productivity.

So if there is any question whether you'd max him, you better believe there is significant risk in that scenario of not retaining him.  And I'm not sure any team that maxes him will end up getting good value on that contract.  Big risk he ends up tying up $50M of cap space and delivering $25M of production (my pulling out of my *** number for his value this season).

 

[JeffS17]

31 minutes ago, AHF said:

If we aren't willing to outbid other people on a resigning, then I don't feel like we have any real security.  If we are willing to outbid everyone else, then the risk drops significantly.  If we are willing to max him, then there is a ton of risk imo but it isn't around whether he resigns.  It is around whether he could possibly live up to that contract as he heads into his 30's.  $50M a year for a guy at his age with his skills can turn into a John Collins contract pretty quickly.  Compare his production this year to JJ:

He is rebounding less, blocking fewer shots, stealing less, passing better, and scoring 4 more points on 5.5 more shots per 36 (which isn't good).  A .673% TS% is worlds better than Siakam's subpar .544% TS%.  And while that is low for him that isn't a complete outlier for Siakam.  He finished the season at .547% TS% in 2021 and was around .565% TS% in 2022 and 2023.  I'd rather have JJ's numbers. 

You could make the case that the only way Siakam justifies taking minutes from JJ at PF (if these numbers hold) is if his defense is worlds better.  And it should be materially better.  But I'm not sure any level of defense reasonably expected from Siakam could ever justify $50M a year at his level of productivity.

So if there is any question whether you'd max him, you better believe there is significant risk in that scenario of not retaining him.  And I'm not sure any team that maxes him will end up getting good value on that contract.  Big risk he ends up tying up $50M of cap space and delivering $25M of production (my pulling out of my *** number for his value this season).

 

Don't disagree with any of this.  If we get Siakam, we better not supermax him unless we're willing to go into the tax.  I do think Siakam's game will open up SIGNIFICANTLY playing with Trae though, and that would be reflected in his numbers with the Hawks.