NBASupes Feb's Random Thoughts Thread

[NBASupes]

NBA: 

The All-Star game is amazing from a skill stance, just wish it was a lot more competitive. KD was one of the only ones playing defense. Him and Barnes. Trae was trying but PG13 was abusing him. 

NCAA: 

Hawk fans, please watch Ohio State v. Purdue once they post the full game on YouTube. Edey is used similar to how we use Capela but he does things that I wish Clint could do. His reads on offense and feel is just better and obviously, he has post skills and hands that we know Clint just never had. 

I watched a lot of Yao Ming today mainly due to getting negative feedback from my Edey comp to Yao. Many were saying Yao is way more athletic so I watched the games side by side. Timed everything and what I said was Yao was faster in a straight line. Rookie Yao was really fast straight line was and could beat guys up the floor but his stamina was ass. He had a lot of wasted movements. His movement skills was limited. He did set good screens similar to Edey.

Edey kinda looks like Yao in the face which makes sense, they are both Chinese, Edey being half. Edey plays with a lot more pace within his game. Still, his pace will need work in the NBA. I have seen times where he would just get tired and get beat to spots by quicker defenders. This ain't unusual, this happens to Embiid often too. Yao would walk, put his hands on his knees, and bend down, sometimes, Yao didn't even play in transition. Year 2 Yao played with more pace and didn't use his straight-line speed much if at all. His stamina significantly improved too. I didn't see an athletic difference and I timed everything. Their burst, their movements, etc. The one clear thing is Edey likes hooks and attacking the rim. Yao likes face-ups and using his finesse with his elite footwork. There is a clear gap on footwork. Yao's footwork was sublime as a rookie. Edey has good footwork and can use post moves but Yao is like a less athletic, taller Chris Bosh with how his footwork is. 

I think people are doing a disservice to Edey. He can hoop. If someone has him in the top 5 of their big board, I could understand. I just have questions considering he does a lot of damage in the post. 

Stephon Castle is probably the one prospect that if you ask me five years from now, who is the best player in this class or the SGA of this class? I would say Castle can be. His feel for the game is terrific. His aggressive and hustle is at 100. His ability to finish at the rim is legit. He doesn't have elite athleticism but he does have freak athleticism and he plays stronger than looks. I think he's going to be a big PG at 215 when it's all said and done. He's not close to where he will be but I really think, his polished comp is a bigger Russell Westbrook, just not as athletic. He's the one that could do damage. I like this PG class. Castle, Dillingham, Collier, and Topic give me 2009 vibes and the best since 2018. Wagner 6th man, Kolek, and McCain as high-end backup PGs long term give this PG class a great presence.  Don't sleep on Simpson and Carrington either. 

Strong ass center class too. Edey, Clingan, Ware, Sarr whom I am not in love with but I see the upside, Missi, and Flip. This is a good center class. Last year, after Wemby and Lively, James Nnaji in the 2nd round was the only center drafted and I believe Nnaji is still playing in Spain.  

Hawks should target the seniors. I don't remember the last time I said that. This would be the first time. I usually hate seniors. Rarely are they good prospects like Cam Johnson and Desmond Bane. Most of the time, their perceived value is low so they fall like gangbusters. But since NIL which came 4 years ago, we been able to keep NBA prospects for 4 and even 5 years who would normally be in drafts 3-4 years ago. So this senior class ain't exist before because we are in the NIL era. So that's why even I have changed my view of seniors and because they have money. They can afford top-end training. Not surprised they are getting a lot better as if they were in the NBA. Plus, coaches have to adapt, I watched Purdue run a shit ton of Atlanta Hawk, and Coach Quin's actions today. I remember watching college games and there wasn't one play that was anything you would see in the NBA but the game has changed and evolved. 

Terrance Shannon Jr, be a top 10 SG in year 2. Dalton Knecht will be a legit starter. Knecht (Connect) and Shannon Jr is 23 and 24 when the season starts. What's the difference between Hield and the other two? And could they be Desmond Bane is was a top 5 SG in his 2nd year? 

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=terrence-shannon-jr--dalton-knecht--buddy-hield--desmond-bane

I'll say yes to both. Shannon Jr. is a lot like Mitch Richmond. Doesn't have the post-skill Mitch had but makes up for it with a quick release a shooting stroke similar to Tyrese Haliburton. What's crazy is Shannon is older right now than Haliburton. Mitch was another older NBA-ready prospect. I don't see Shannon Jr. not being a legit stud as a rookie. Everything he does translates to the NBA and he's big as hell in the NCAA and in the NBA. 220 2s with his speed and torque don't come around and Shannon is a strange prospect. He was on my tier 4 as a freshman. I had him as a first-round pick in OO's draft class. He's now a 5th-year senior. He was 190 at that time. He's 220 now. He always played strong and had a strong core but his shot needed development. Now he's a legit NBA player. 

Knecht is Dan Majerle redux. A similar three-level scorer who can play on or off the ball. Defensively, can get stocks but I think he's somewhat a liability on D due to his lateral quickness issues. Both are NBA-ready.  

I know Shannon has some legal issues he needs to resolve and for that, his draft shock is all over the place but he's legit. 

Draft:

There are a lot of raw guys in this upcoming draft and many need to return to college. Because teams are so stubborn, they will take these guys hoping to see the payoff in 5 years. 

So many guys will bust in this class and it won't be their fault. 

The smart teams will do well in this draft. The dumb ones will fail. 

The Hawks should trade Murray during the draft. Two PGs ain't gonna work. Time to move on from the experiment. 

Random: 

The Hawks need to do whatever to get KAT, if they can't, Edey is probably the best play. Either way, you need an offensive-minded center who can run your scheme, draw doubles, and score at will with Trae. His 50 tonight was empty but impressive.

The Hawks need to sign vets this offseason. Stop lying to yourself, you need vets off the bench and not Wes Matthews and Garrison Matthews but legit guys. Kobe should play but needs to earn it. He too is too small next to Trae. 

The Hawks better go deep into the tax with this squad. 

[NBASupes]

Hawks Draft board: 

If I had a true board just considering where we are: 

I would probably limit it to guys who can help us and become legit within the next year or so. So no Jalen Johnson's or A.J. Griffin's aka low-floor, high-ceiling guys. We don't have time due to Trae's pending FA status to wait for someone to develop. We are still waiting for Kobe and he wasn't a raw prospect. 

1. Zach Edey

2. Zaccharie Risacher, the only teenager I would take if I were the Hawks

I love this PG class but I would avoid drafting from it. Everyone is 2 years out but Topic and he's not a fit with Trae. Probably a year I would say draft Trae's replacement and it's something I would consider with SAC pick. Sheppard, Castle, Dillingham, Collier, and Topic give me 2009 vibes but all should be long gone before the lottery ends. The Hawks should jump on it if one falls like Collier, Sheppard, or Dillingham. Topic and Castle won't fall out of the top 10. Topic is too polished and once teams get Castle in a workout setting, they will fall in love. Dillingham - size, Sheppard - athleticism questions, and Collier - Shooting could hurt them in the draft. 

3. Terrance Shannon Jr. - His pending court case is troubling but he's innocent for now so I am only going off the on-court performance. I've heard and read his character is usually tremendous so this might just be a Peyton Manning moment. 

4. Dalton Knecht aka Connect 4 - No question he should be in the mix for the Hawks. 

5. Donovan Clingan - Best combination of offense and defense of all of these centers. I don't see a future star, he's kinda like a poor man's big country Reeves offensive but a more mobile Roy Hibbert on D. Reeves could shoot it and he had more skill. Clingan loves to go to the hook and is more of a dunker with his good explosiveness for his size. 

6. Ware - Ware is unique in the fact that he's like Jarrett Allen but he can shoot. His feel for the game isn't good and that's probably my big issue with him but he does add value and should be NBA-ready by year 2. 

Sarr and Missi are too raw for me. If you are a Sarr believer, 3 or 4 years down the road, you may have something but by then, Trae will be long gone. Flip works with OO and Trae but doesn't work with JJ and that's critical. Any center has to work with JJ or else, they are just a PF which I personally believe OO is but with us, he's a center with us. 

I don't really have no one else on the board. 

Ryan Dunn's shot needs to be rebuilt. We only have Trae for two years. We have to make sure who we draft can keep Trae here for the next 8 years. I am not sure an Andre Roberson's role coming off the bench could work. Maybe he could. At SAC pick, he should be an option. 

I love Oso I. unique game but he's years from being trusted by a pro team and I don't believe that team will be us. 

The Hawks need instant ROIs so that makes this draft really tough for us. Most of these guys are Gleaguers right now. Even Ware is likely a Gleager year 1. 

[NBASupes]

There are a lot of good basketball players in college basketball mainly due to NIL. I am not saying they are NBA players but some could be and some could be pretty good NBA players. A lot of talent and with France and NBA Africa getting a lot better, we are seeing more and more. I am wondering why China hasn't produced anyone in awhile. They have a tremendous passion for the game. The Philippines already got some NBA players right now. 

[AHF]

Lots of content to chew on here.  Will try to look more closely at a couple of people.

[kg01]

If we're successful at team-building, we won't have any picks this coming draft.  Chew on that. 

[NBASupes]

20 minutes ago, kg01 said:

If we're successful at team-building, we won't have any picks this coming draft.  Chew on that. 

Team building is not easy. It takes a plan and you sticking to it. 

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Team building is not easy. It takes a plan and you sticking to it. 

Truth.  Or you can do what we do.  Have no plan so you don't have to worry about sticking to it. 

[NBASupes]

23 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Truth.  Or you can do what we do.  Have no plan so you don't have to worry about sticking to it. 

LMAO

[JayBirdHawk]

40 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Team building is not easy. It takes a plan and you sticking to it. 

That's just it though, it's not supposed to be easy...but the minute things get a little bit hard, instead of putting in the hard work they're looking for the 'Easy Button'. Can't find it - change to something else. 

Seems like there are too many different voices with too many opinions and the one voice above all others isn't the one we want.

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That's just it though, it's not supposed to be easy...but the minute things get a little bit hard, instead of putting in the hard work they're looking for the 'Easy Button'. Can't find it - change to something else. 

Seems like there are too many different voices with too many opinions and the one voice above all others isn't the one we want.

Yeah it's not easy when you're just waiting for another all star to fall in your lap.   If you want to build a competitive team it's not like climbing everest.  It takes some vision like going out and getting Bibby because Joe can't be the PG or going out and getting Sap, Demarre, Kyle because they fit with Al.   Or getting Gallo, Bog, Lou because they can provide the scoring punch and leadership that our young guys needed. 

Or getting Brunson because Randle isn't a great #1 option.  Or getting OG because RJ and Quickley are inconsistent contributors.  

The right pieces mean more than they're individual talent especially when you have one star player already. 

[deester11]

Supes, I ain't agree with you on much but you bring some good points to the table occasionally /s. However, I must ask you again, what is your faith level on the structure and ability to get the right people on this team as the FO is constructed currently?  People championed us NOT making a move on the premise that we'd screw it up anyway.  When oh when will we see competence.  And don't say we didn't sell pennies on the dollar...this summer..yada..yada. I won't believe in this FO until I see a level of competence this summer.  As is, I see this :

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, deester11 said:

  As is, I see this :

I don't believe our front office is capable of pulling off something that requires as much coordination as this.  If this was the Hawks FO someone would end up face planting during this clip.

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Supes, I ain't agree with you on much but you bring some good points to the table occasionally /s. However, I must ask you again, what is your faith level on the structure and ability to get the right people on this team as the FO is constructed currently?  People championed us NOT making a move on the premise that we'd screw it up anyway.  When oh when will we see competence.  And don't say we didn't sell pennies on the dollar...this summer..yada..yada. I won't believe in this FO until I see a level of competence this summer.  As is, I see this :

Thanks for the lack thereof or somewhat for having faith in me post. Appreciate it!

It's not so much having faith in doing what's right, it's simply doing what's right. 

I can't say our FO will do but I can't say they won't either. 

I haven't seen massive incompetence from this org in a while. Even the bad moves make sense outside of some of the contracts which made no sense and completely went against what Travis truly believes in from a team building stance. 

At the end of the day, this org has bent over backward for Trae. It's time that they build around Trae but they do what they think is best because I don't believe Trae or his dad knows what's best for him. Years ago, JC and he were going to retire together. A couple of years ago, it was Murray and Trae show. Now, he's crying about Lauri, another player it wouldn't work with.

Trae doesn't understand his game. He's like most on here. He thinks his game is different than it is. Cam had the issue too but Trae is a lot better and he can deal with expectations better because he has to deal with consequences a lot more than Cam did. At the end of the day, you should never listen to Trae Young or Rayford Jr if you want to build a contender. Those two just don't get it. That said, they did a hell of a job on Trae. 60 impact on ball players offensively is extremely rare like a MewTwo in OG Pokemon. You got one of those, it's not hard to piece the rest. Whereas it would be impossible with Murray unless we brought in an elite wise to Trae like Devin Booker. 

At the end of the day, I can't get mad if they are saying they are willing to pay the tax and don't want to because it will be at best a solid product. That said, next year, they have no choice, they don't even own their future picks. They have to go all in. 

 

[AHF]

It's kind of like you should hire a general manager who is an expert on talent evaluation, financial management, etc. and let them make basketball decisions to get the best roster.  Pretty radical idea but something the Hawks should consider.

Of course there are other options.  

[deester11]

Nah Supes. It's not about faith in you.  Seriously, they've given us battered fan syndrome for years now. You've been optimistic...defensive, mostly in a good way. Ha. It's just that at some point a clearer defined plan should have at least been evident. I can't say what Landrys vision is but it's not awe inspiring.  Perhaps he doesn't owe it to us to say squat.  He certainly didn't!

I'm just tired if the hamster on a wheel routine. We've perfected it.  How about we try next level ish? If you're tied to Trae like I feel the Hawks are until they aren't, build around him and stop piecing it together without end pieces, middle pieces...

[Final_quest]

Wondering about tanking and getting into the top 7-8.  We got decent lottery odds of moving into the top 4 from there.  Too hopeful?

[bird_dirt]

Good post, @NBASupes

i think you’re right, this draft leans heavy on C and PG.

Assuming we keep both picks this year, I think our first priority with the first pick should be C so long as they don’t overreach on a player bc all the other Cs were drafted ahead of them.

 As much as I love Reed, I don’t see a reason to draft him with our first pick. Maaaaaaybe if we trade DJ it would open some playing time for him, but if we did trade him, I would want a vet to fill his time on the court not a rookie. 

All of what I just said though should be taken with a grain of salt. As much as I want whoever we draft to fit in, I don’t want the Hawks to reach on anyone to make it work. Draft BPA and deal with it (a la Haliburton and the Kings). 

The talent pool in this draft is wide, just not particularly deep. There’s good value to be found through at least 1 1/2 rounds. 

[NBASupes]

20 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Good post, @NBASupes

i think you’re right, this draft leans heavy on C and PG.

Assuming we keep both picks this year, I think our first priority with the first pick should be C so long as they don’t overreach on a player bc all the other Cs were drafted ahead of them.

 As much as I love Reed, I don’t see a reason to draft him with our first pick. Maaaaaaybe if we trade DJ it would open some playing time for him, but if we did trade him, I would want a vet to fill his time on the court not a rookie. 

All of what I just said though should be taken with a grain of salt. As much as I want whoever we draft to fit in, I don’t want the Hawks to reach on anyone to make it work. Draft BPA and deal with it (a la Haliburton and the Kings). 

The talent pool in this draft is wide, just not particularly deep. There’s good value to be found through at least 1 1/2 rounds. 

It's just not ready for the most part and some don't fit prototypes of what teams want today and some that do are just far away from what they need to be. 

This is one draft where I am fine with that because our style isn't similar to what others do and need. 

[Spud2nique]

23 hours ago, kg01 said:

If we're successful at team-building, we won't have any picks this coming draft.  Chew on that. 

I had this chew before it tastes like Gradey  

[AHF]

18 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Wondering about tanking and getting into the top 7-8.  We got decent lottery odds of moving into the top 4 from there.  Too hopeful?

I was kind of hoping we would go this route if we traded some of our players like Murray and Capela (sitting Trae for extended periods for "recovery", etc.) but I can't see it with us sitting on our hands at the deadline.  We have too many productive vets even if they don't fit together particularly well.  

If Trae goes down with injury or something then you could reassess but I feel like we are locked into the play-in region of the standings especially as long as Bogi, Hunter, and JJ are healthy (being the three most important injury risks).