Hawks 2024 Draft Thread

[Diesel]

43 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I am in no way familiar with any draft prospects, but I would hope that we do not draft with the mindset of "need a contributor right now" instead of picking the prospects with the most upside, or seemingly realizable upside.  I want the Hawks to build a program that sustains success in the long run, not one that thinks "we have to win today to make Trae happy".  Great franchises develop their draft picks and young players and have a constant stream of high value talent on the bench.  We have the coaching staff to do that, so I hope we are not picking guys under the premise we need a contributor next year.  Need to exercise patience right now 

Making Trae happy can only really happen if we get the right FAs.   There's nobody really except maybe the top 3 picks that will be ready to make an immediate splash.

[NBASupes]

27 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The DeAndre Hunter injury and the Jalen Johnson injury earlier this year really exposed the Hawks lack of depth at the 3 and 4 positions.  They didn't have enough depth to overcome those injuries.  To me, Bogi, Griffin, Bufkin, and Lundy aren't wings.  They are guards that can maybe plays some wing in spurts but have certain limitations that will ultimately make them liabilities as full-time wings.  

I am not sure we can label Griffin a guard.

That's fair. 

Do you see Knecht as a wing or a guard? What about Shannon?

Give us some wings you like?

Edited March 8 by NBASupes

[KB21]

31 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am not sure we can label Griffin a guard.

That's fair. 

Do you see Knecht as a wing or a guard? What about Shannon?

Give us some wings you like?

I see Knecht as a 2/3.  I like Furphy, who is probably a 2/3.  Shannon may be more of just a 3.  I feel like the Hawks need to get someone that can be a 3/4.  Salaun from France fits.  

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I see Knecht as a 2/3.  I like Furphy, who is probably a 2/3.  Shannon may be more of just a 3.  I feel like the Hawks need to get someone that can be a 3/4.  Salaun from France fits.  

Salaun is super raw man. I am not a fan of super raw guys. Jaden McDaniels was super raw but a lot more times than not, they end up like Zaire Williams.

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Salaun is super raw man. I am not a fan of super raw guys. Jaden McDaniels was super raw but a lot more times than not, they end up like Zaire Williams.

There's a balance that needs to be found.  The likelihood of a rookie making big contributions on a winning team are slim.  Take this year.  The only rookies who are really making contributions to winning teams are Cason Wallace and Chet Holmgren (even though he technically isn't a rookie) for OKC, Jaime at Miami, and Derek Lively with Dallas.  

[AHF]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He's more like Dan Majerie. Bogi feel is insane. He play can play this game with ease and as he's aged, Bogi is just smooth. Dalton is more forceful. Athletic. He'll bring it to you. Plays with power. We really don't got many minutes available since Murray.plays the 2 as well is the only issue for us with him. The pull up 3 and the off ball action to the right corner 3 is Bogi esque

He's gonna be coveted right around 11. Definitely. He can score and he's polished. He's 3 years older than AJ right now 

Why is the Majerle comp out there?  I've seen this a couple of times and kind of wonder if it is more because they are both white since people for whatever reason tend to go with the same race for comps.  (Not accusing Supes of this - just saying it is a general trend in comps from a lot of sources.)  

Majerle was a 2x All-NBA defender (and actually got a vote for DPOY in 93 tying him with Ewing).  You need to be a lot better than just "not bad" on defense to be comped with Majerle, imo.  He was really strong in every defensive stat they tracked in college (he led his conference in rebounding, was #5 in steals, and #4 in blocks - future Hawk Grant Long had fewer rebounds and blocks than him despite Long being a PF and Majerle a guard).  Defense should be a real strength of your game if you are going to be compared to him. 

FWIW, here are Knecht's career high numbers at UT and Northern Colorado vs Majerle at Central Michigan:

Knecht vs Majerle

20.7 ppg vs 23.7 ppg

7.2 rpg vs 10.8 rpg

1.8 apg vs 2.5 apg

0.8 spg vs 2.1 spg

0.7 bpg vs 1.5 bpg

[NBASupes]

44 minutes ago, KB21 said:

There's a balance that needs to be found.  The likelihood of a rookie making big contributions on a winning team are slim.  Take this year.  The only rookies who are really making contributions to winning teams are Cason Wallace and Chet Holmgren (even though he technically isn't a rookie) for OKC, Jaime at Miami, and Derek Lively with Dallas.  

Podz is definitely having an impact. It was a more unpolished class last year. We drafted one of more polished kids in Kobe Bufkin and he was a young Soph.

 

This year, we got guys like Edey, Knecht, Shannon Jr. Last year, was a development class. 

https://tankathon.com/past_drafts/2023

[JeffS17]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Podz is definitely having an impact. It was a more unpolished class last year. We drafted one of more polished kids in Kobe Bufkin and he was a young Soph.

 

This year, we got guys like Edey, Knecht, Shannon Jr. Last year, was a development class. 

https://tankathon.com/past_drafts/2023

Always surprises too based on how quickly some of these guys assimilate even if they weren't projected to have an impact.  Lively comes to mind there as typically centers take more time to develop and he has surpassed most peoples expectations (definitely mine) for a late lottery selection

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

Why is the Majerle comp out there?  I've seen this a couple of times and kind of wonder if it is more because they are both white since people for whatever reason tend to go with the same race for comps.  (Not accusing Supes of this - just saying it is a general trend in comps from a lot of sources.)  

Majerle was a 2x All-NBA defender (and actually got a vote for DPOY in 93 tying him with Ewing).  You need to be a lot better than just "not bad" on defense to be comped with Majerle, imo.  He was really strong in every defensive stat they tracked in college (he led his conference in rebounding, was #5 in steals, and #4 in blocks - future Hawk Grant Long had fewer rebounds and blocks than him despite Long being a PF and Majerle a guard).  Defense should be a real strength of your game if you are going to be compared to him. 

Central Michigan ain't the highest quality of comp. It's like taking Dillon Jones rebounding stats too seriously. Knecht was averaging 7.5 rpg last year at Northern Colorado. 

In the NBA, his rates are more on par with what's projected from Knecht. 

Let's evaluate based on their prototype which is similar. 

Dan last year, his SOS was -2.02

Knecht is 10.00

That's a massive gap. 

I threw out using the eye test because of Obi Toppin and even his SOS was a 3 which is underwhelming but it doesn't suck. 

Edited March 8 by NBASupes

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Central Michigan ain't the highest quality of comp. It's like taking Dillon Jones rebounding stats too seriously. Knecht was averaging 7.5 rpg last year at Northern Colorado. 

In the NBA, his rates are more on par with what's projected from Knecht. 

Let's evaluate based on their prototype which is similar. 

I compared his numbers versus Knecht's career highs including those from Northern Colorado which is significantly lower quality than the MAC was in the 80's.  

But back to my question, is Knecht projected to be an All-NBA defender?  If not, why compare him to someone who was?

Is someone like Alan Houston a better comp for what to expect from Knecht as a defender?  I'm confused by comparing a guy whose big knock is his defense to someone for whom defense was an asset.  That strikes me as being like comparing Bogi with Hunter and ignoring the difference in defense.  (That is assuming that Knecht is projected to be closer to Bogi and that someone views Hunter as a future All-NBA defender.)

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

I compared his numbers versus Knecht's career highs including those from Northern Colorado which is significantly lower quality than the MAC was in the 80's.  

But back to my question, is Knecht projected to be an All-NBA defender?  If not, why compare him to someone who was?

I wasn't there to watch the MAC in the 80s. Based on SOS, Dalton SOS was clearly better his last year at Northern Colorado than Majerle at CMU. Like I said, I wasn't there to see the level of play. I am just going by Basketball reference 

Dan wouldn't be all NBA today at the 2 neither would Knecht 

Edited March 8 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Always surprises too based on how quickly some of these guys assimilate even if they weren't projected to have an impact.  Lively comes to mind there as typically centers take more time to develop and he has surpassed most peoples expectations (definitely mine) for a late lottery selection

Lively went to Dallas with Luka. If he ended up in Atlanta, I would expect the same. He's scoring more than he ever did in college. I looked at every big in the last 30 years and outside of the studs like Shaq, Wemby, etc, no role playing big has ever done that as a rookie. That's insane. Luka is a stud muffin

Edited March 8 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

I compared his numbers versus Knecht's career highs including those from Northern Colorado which is significantly lower quality than the MAC was in the 80's.  

But back to my question, is Knecht projected to be an All-NBA defender?  If not, why compare him to someone who was?

Is someone like Alan Houston a better comp for what to expect from Knecht as a defender?  I'm confused by comparing a guy whose big knock is his defense to someone for whom defense was an asset.  That strikes me as being like comparing Bogi with Hunter and ignoring the difference in defense.  (That is assuming that Knecht is projected to be closer to Bogi and that someone views Hunter as a future All-NBA defender.)

I like Knecht defense off the ball like Dan. I didn't like either on the ball as defender. I guess we have a different view of Majerle.

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I wasn't there to watch the MAC in the 80s. Based on SOS, Dalton SOS was clearly better his last year at Northern Colorado than Majerle at CMU. Like I said, I wasn't there to see the level of play. I am just going by Basketball reference 

Dan wouldn't be all NBA today at the 2 neither would Knecht 

I'm still not hearing any comparisons between the two as defenders.  I know steals, blocks, and rebounds don't give you the totality of a player as a defender just pointing out that from these numbers these guys aren't even a little close.  

This just feels like setting the bar way too high for what to expect for Knecht on that side of the ball.  Majerle was a better defender than Klay Thompson, for example.  Neither guy shuts down the best in the league (Jordan abused Majerle and would abuse Klay at Klay's peak) but both were plus defenders at their position relative to their peers. 

The scouting reports I've seen make me expect Knecht will never approach Klay's or Majerle's success on that side of the ball and I'm curious who are better comps for Knecht on defense.  If the answer is Bogi, that tells me everything I need to know about this being a bad comp.  (Offensively a comp between the two is always going to be a bit tough given the difference in era.)

If you do think Knecht will be one of the league's better defenders at the SG position then I'm interested in hearing that because that's not what I've read on him.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm still not hearing any comparisons between the two as defenders.  I know steals, blocks, and rebounds don't give you the totality of a player as a defender just pointing out that from these numbers these guys aren't even a little close.  

This just feels like setting the bar way too high for what to expect for Knecht on that side of the ball.  Majerle was a better defender than Klay Thompson, for example.  The scouting reports I've seen make me expect Knecht will never approach Klay's success on that side of the ball.

He is not a replica. They just share the same prototype. They are not identical. They don't even play the same level of competition. 

Edited March 8 by NBASupes

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He is not a replica. They just share the same prototype. They are not identical. They don't even play the same level of competition. 

If you project Knecht to be in the top third of starting SGs as a defender who can add clutch shooting and a thunderous dunk then I'm very interested in that in Atlanta.  That is what Majerle was in Phoenix.

[bird_dirt]

I don’t have personal rankings of players really. After the tournament I’ll probably be keyed in on a few guys moreso. 
I just want us to come out with a 7 footer. If Sac pick conveys, I want us to come away with 5/4 or 5/3, maybe 4/3. No hard and fast must draft this position at this pick, but ideally BPA within whatever is available between bigs and wings. 
Done really want to draft a straight up guard since we got Kobe last year and I’d like to sign a vet PG for back up duties. 

[KB21]

Found our back up center:

 

[bird_dirt]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Found our back up center:

 

And he can get you a great rate if you want to refinance your home mortgage!

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

If you project Knecht to be in the top third of starting SGs as a defender who can add clutch shooting and a thunderous dunk then I'm very interested in that in Atlanta.  That is what Majerle was in Phoenix.

Definitely. After the top 3 SG, its like Desmond Bane and guys much  worse.