Season's over? What'd I miss? In hindisght, would you rather be me, or you?

[sturt]

(... ie, having invested whatever time and attention and passion you did, versus none over here on my side of the internet). Just genuinely curious. Should I have regrets?

[NBASupes]

I am definitely going to be here a lot less but I'll post periodically. 

Too much time is spend on here so I will just lurk and time my posting to timed minutes. 

[Dnice]

You didn't miss much except teams and players feasting on Atlanta.

[AHF]

I have two different thoughts.  One is that I’d rather suffer through some bad years with my team.  The second as to thoughts on the specific season I think are well captured in this thread:

 

[sturt]

9 hours ago, sturt said:

Should I have regrets?

I absolutely miss interaction with some of the posters here. There's that.

But reviewing that thread AHF just sent me to... maybe I should be thankful for Tony's blatant non-verbal statement last June. I don't know this, but I feel like I very probably would be needle-in-the-red frustrated right now with all-things Hawks. I'm seeing that apparently you experienced yet another year of critical pieces sitting out for significant time from injury. I'm seeing that apparently there's approximately equivalent indignation with the new coach as with the previous coach. If I still thought the owner had the integrity and character and passion I'd assigned to him before we learned more clearly how he manages his front office, maybe I would be just like I've ordinarily always been, anxious to begin the off-season and to think about how to retool the roster. But this new paradigm appears to be a huge win for me personally after all. I can allot my time and attention and passion to some smarter things, being removed from what had been something like a religion for me. Appreciate the reassurance.

As you were.

 

[warcore]

a thread to tell everyone how dumb they are and how smart you are? [N]aturally, I'd rather be me. 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, warcore said:

a thread to tell

My friend, I'll freely acknowledge that I posted the thread as a set of questions in the interest of challenging my preconceived inclination... so, to be fair to your accusation, yes, I had some preconceived inclination... but to be fair to me and my integrity, no, your comment is out of line... it was an honest invitation for people here to challenge that inclination and shed light on what might be missing in that inclination.

Further, I've told no one they're dumb, nor do my words necessarily infer that I think they are. Each person has to assess for themselves their own personal stuff... no business of mine. But what I have said here, yes, is I feel reassured and yes "smart"... for me... after all has been said and done... having reviewed the thread AHF pointed me to.

Warcore, you're one of maybe 3 or 4 who consistently over the last year or two (or more?) seem especially triggered by posts I've made. Whatever the cause of this self-evident axe you have to grind with me, that's on you. I've done nothing purposely to offend you. I can't even recall I've directly spoken to you like this, though maybe I have. Look. We all reach conclusions, and the recipe for those conclusions can contain a varied mix of well-substantiated facts, unsubstantiated reports, opinions voiced by others one respects, opinions voiced by others one doesn't respect, good logic, bad logic, good mood, bad mood, and more. I won't apologize for having reached conclusions that evidently bother you. I won't apologize for me being me. And to the point, neither will I suggest that you're a lesser person for disagreeing with whatever conclusions of mine you do... rather, only that your comment is overly presumptuous and, at least from where I sit, suggests more about you than it does about me.

You're welcome to a last word on any of that... I've said everything I intend to say (and probably will purposely avoid reading it anyhow).

 

 

[REHawksFan]

11 hours ago, sturt said:

(... ie, having invested whatever time and attention and passion you did, versus none over here on my side of the internet). Just genuinely curious. Should I have regrets?

As always, I'd rather be me than you.  

I'd rather loved and lost than never loved at all.  I don't consider my time invested as being wasted just because the team wasn't a success.  I can't imagine a more hollow way to go about being a fan.  Of course, I also can't imagine walking away from a team I've loved since childhood, whether I agree or disagree with the organization. 

I was born in Atlanta and raised as a fan of all Atlanta sports.  What made the 60 win Hawks so much fun and then later the ECF Hawks so much fun was the experience of suffering through all the heartache and disappointment of bad ownership, terrible GMs, poor decisions, and just underachieving teams for years on end.  

I was born and bred a Georgia Bulldog.  I suffered through 40 years of nothing (ranging from down right terrible to close but never enough) and then finally got to see my school win a title.  And then another.  The heartache makes the payoff so much better. 

So again, I have no interest in being a person that walks away from a team I love during the bad times. Which means clearly I'd rather be me than you.  

[sturt]

Just now, REHawksFan said:

As always, I'd rather be me than you.  

I'd rather loved and lost than never loved at all.  I don't consider my time invested as being wasted just because the team wasn't a success.  I can't imagine a more hollow way to go about being a fan.  Of course, I also can't imagine walking away from a team I've loved since childhood, whether I agree or disagree with the organization. 

I was born in Atlanta and raised as a fan of all Atlanta sports.  What made the 60 win Hawks so much fun and then later the ECF Hawks so much fun was the experience of suffering through all the heartache and disappointment of bad ownership, terrible GMs, poor decisions, and just underachieving teams for years on end.  

I was born and bred a Georgia Bulldog.  I suffered through 40 years of nothing (ranging from down right terrible to close but never enough) and then finally got to see my school win a title.  And then another.  The heartache makes the payoff so much better. 

So again, I have no interest in being a person that walks away from a team I love during the bad times. Which means clearly I'd rather be me than you.  

Fair enough. Well-taken for the most part.

[macdaddy]

I love basketball and love the hawks.  There were plenty of highlights on the court this year despite the losing.  By tomorrow we'll be 1 of 14 other teams no longer playing.   In a few weeks we'll be one of 28 

Trae, Jalen showed they are going to be fun to watch.   

Honestly i'm grateful for where we are because hopefully it means significant changes finally after 3 years of saving money and hoping for young guys to 'turn the corner'. 

 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

hopefully it means significant changes

Can't recall a season that we weren't saying these words or a paraphrase of that, of course. Right?

And but... I was fine, me... I was content for the journey here just like I've always been with regard to any other sport... until last off season. Our owner made vividly clear to me that there is a ceiling, and it will only be by sheer luck, not by his acquiescing to spending at any critical moment, that this franchise will ever finally get to even sniff the promised land of an NBA Finals. What some (not you, mac) apparently miss is that I didn't give up on my team... my owner effectively extinguished any flame of hope, and I'm not going to stand by and pretend I didn't understand how loudly his actions spoke. It's not about soldiering through down times, either. Had it come out last off-season that the team was going to outright tank, at least there would have been some subterfuge to keep me or anyone else from the knowledge of how Ressler really thinks about these things... and I would have stuck around like I always have. Indeed, if it ever became apparent that Jerry Jones was accepting of hamster status for his teams, that would have the effect just as this has had the effect of snuffing out any hope that my rational mind could muster.

So, sure, you can have significant changes... but to what end... what's the reason for expecting that you're not just going to get right back some day to playing a team like the Celtics six highly competitive games as we did last April, feeling like there was/will be reason to feel like we're on the cusp of something special, only to find that we're shaving talent from the roster, not expanding talent on the roster...? I don't see it. But the thread, again, is here to invite people to tell me what they see that I don't. Not to argue, but to legitimately listen to understand what they see that's going to keep them around. I mean, all I got from RE is effectively, "it doesn't matter, this is indeed like religion to me, and they can jerk me around how ever they want, I'm not budging." That's fine. As long as one recognizes that about themselves, that's his decision. It could never be mine. I'm here for hope. If you can't give me hope, I'm not going to care for as long as you can't give me hope. That's my decision. But I will be back if/when Ressler either exits or Ressler somehow signals a different mindset... and thus, if/when hope resurrects.

[Wretch]

I've watched more games these last 5-6 years than I ever have, but my interest has tailed off a bit this season.  Specifically near the end of the season when all the serious injuries hit.  Trade deadline was frustrating and you didn't miss anything there.  You didn't miss anything at the end of the season as things played out as expected with injuries and whatnot.

I would say that the biggest thing you've missed is Jalen Johnson coming into his own, but if you're like anyone who has paid attention to him...you knew it was coming to some extent.  Overall, I'm glad I tuned in and am ALWAYS grateful for the insight I get from the Squawk.  Regardless of what the Hawks are doing, I'll never stop reading these threads.

Good to see you popping in Sturt.

[REHawksFan]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

Can't recall a season that we weren't saying these words or a paraphrase of that, of course. Right?

And but... I was fine, me... I was content for the journey here just like I've always been with regard to any other sport... until last off season. Our owner made vividly clear to me that there is a ceiling, and it will only be by sheer luck, not by his acquiescing to spending at any critical moment, that this franchise will ever finally get to even sniff the promised land of an NBA Finals. What some (not you, mac) apparently miss is that I didn't give up on my team... my owner effectively extinguished any flame of hope, and I'm not going to stand by and pretend I didn't understand how loudly his actions spoke. It's not about soldiering through down times, either. Had it come out last off-season that the team was going to outright tank, at least there would have been some subterfuge to keep me or anyone else from the knowledge of how Ressler really thinks about these things... and I would have stuck around like I always have. Indeed, if it ever became apparent that Jerry Jones was accepting of hamster status for his teams, that would have the effect just as this has had the effect of snuffing out any hope that my rational mind could muster.

So, sure, you can have significant changes... but to what end... what's the reason for expecting that you're not just going to get right back some day to playing a team like the Celtics six highly competitive games as we did last April, feeling like there was/will be reason to feel like we're on the cusp of something special, only to find that we're shaving talent from the roster, not expanding talent on the roster...? I don't see it. But the thread, again, is here to invite people to tell me what they see that I don't. Not to argue, but to legitimately listen to understand what they see that's going to keep them around. I mean, all I got from RE is effectively, "it doesn't matter, this is indeed like religion to me, and they can jerk me around how ever they want, I'm not budging." That's fine. As long as one recognizes that about themselves, that's his decision. It could never be mine. I'm here for hope. If you can't give me hope, I'm not going to care for as long as you can't give me hope. That's my decision. But I will be back if/when Ressler either exits or Ressler somehow signals a different mindset... and thus, if/when hope resurrects.

LOL

You are completely ridiculous.  Don't put words in my mouth in your quest to justify your own decisions. 

You apparently view your fandom as a transaction that exists only as long as it provides you with a return in the form of hope for success. I disagree with that viewpoint but I don't care that you hold it.

I am mildly intrigued by the notion that others hold the same transactional view.  I simply don't believe others think like that. At least not thise that would identify as fans of a team. Maybe others do though. Regardless, I answered your question honestly. I'd appreciate it if you refrained from mischaracterizing my viewpoint. 

[sturt]

25 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I would say that the biggest thing you've missed is Jalen Johnson coming into his own

I have to be transparent that while I didn't bother visiting here very often, I probably caught over the course of the season I'll say 10-12 game highlight reels. Of those, it was a coin flip if I watched the entire 10-ish minutes or just sped to the last 2 to see if there was a good ending to the game. And yeah, I did see some of that, which was great. But when I would glance at the standings, the surface conclusion was that he may be putting down highlight tape but it didn't seem to be translating to winning. Then again... again... that's just it... I didn't make any study of it to know if he was getting zero support.

Similarly, I'm vaguely aware that Trae had to miss a bunch of games and as Supes mentioned that DJM also regained some of his SAS regard for at least some of that time.

 

[sturt]

15 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Don't put words in my mouth

Genuinely didn't mean to.

So, I'm fascinated. Educate me... what part of...

On 4/18/2024 at 11:15 AM, REHawksFan said:

I'd rather loved and lost than never loved at all.  I don't consider my time invested as being wasted just because the team wasn't a success.  I can't imagine a more hollow way to go about being a fan.  Of course, I also can't imagine walking away from a team I've loved since childhood, whether I agree or disagree with the organization. 

I was born in Atlanta and raised as a fan of all Atlanta sports.  What made the 60 win Hawks so much fun and then later the ECF Hawks so much fun was the experience of suffering through all the heartache and disappointment of bad ownership, terrible GMs, poor decisions, and just underachieving teams for years on end.  

I was born and bred a Georgia Bulldog.  I suffered through 40 years of nothing (ranging from down right terrible to close but never enough) and then finally got to see my school win a title.  And then another.  The heartache makes the payoff so much better. 

... is inaccurately summed up as...

19 hours ago, sturt said:

I mean, all I got from RE is effectively, "it doesn't matter, this is indeed like religion to me, and they can jerk me around how ever they want, I'm not budging." That's fine. As long as one recognizes that about themselves, that's his decision.

...?

And let's just say I was waaaaay out in left field, regardless.

To my mind, the independent reader of those words probably is intelligent to recognize that when one says "all I got from that comment was yada yada yada," it's that person's interpretation of what he read, and saliently, not necessarily how the other person him/herself might sum up the thoughts written.

 

But hey. You wanna really see someone put words in someone else's mouth? Try this:

On 4/18/2024 at 11:15 AM, REHawksFan said:

I don't consider my time invested as being wasted just because the team wasn't a success.  I can't imagine a more hollow way to go about being a fan.

In context, this was asserting that point about me. And it's utter nonsense, RE. There is ignorance (by the dictionary use of the term) in characterizing me this way because it's bass-ackwards. I believed the team going into last off-season was on the verge of success given my confidence in the new coach and how I'd seen them take the fight to the Celtics in 6 games.

You own that. But did I bother to slap you around about it? Hell nah, just now bringing it up, given this framing of my remarks as putting words in your mouth. Didn't matter that much to me. You seemed to feel a need to let off some steam, and my reply to you was anything but oppositional.

 

15 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

You apparently view your fandom as a transaction that exists only as long as it provides you with a return in the form of hope for success. I disagree with that viewpoint but I don't care that you hold it. I am mildly intrigued by the notion that others hold the same transactional view.  I simply don't believe others think like that.

I haven't done the poll to know.

But I'll sleep better tonight knowing RE doesn't care that I hold it. I mean, it already came through without you having to say it, but thanks for that reassurance. You're the best.

More objectively and sans snark... we share the perspective that more people are like you than are like me in that respect. And/but since it's not a matter of popularity, but logic, I'm quite content with my economic view of sports as a consumer entertainment option. I make choices. And one of those choices is to use sports for my pleasure, for my recreation.

Make no mistake, this hasn't always been my paradigm. I've been where you are for most of my life, I promise, RE. It's no fun to feel powerless, to sublet my mood/attitude to how my sports interests are succeeding or not. To be clear, though, you also presumed too much when you said...

15 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

your quest to justify your own decisions

... because when you adopt the economic paradigm, one of the freeing things is that there's no one to answer to. To be fair to you, yes, I know you probably took that away from my question "Should I have regrets," but what's missing in your analysis is that I only chose to frame the question that way as a way of prompting people to help me understand what's undergirding any remaining ambition for this franchise under this owner. You took it, evidently, as self-doubt, when it was rather just a choice of words chosen to compel others to think out loud so I could see their thinking.

 

So... these words...

15 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

I'd appreciate it if you refrained from mischaracterizing my viewpoint. 

... were mine before you wrote them. I just didn't get upset enough to say them.

I'm bored now. None of this matters to me. Won't be replying to whatever you write in response, so feel free to take advantage of that fact to whatever degree you'd like.

 

[REHawksFan]

9 hours ago, sturt said:

Genuinely didn't mean to.

So, I'm fascinated. Educate me... what part of...

... is inaccurately summed up as...

...?

And let's just say I was waaaaay out in left field, regardless.

To my mind, the independent reader of those words probably is intelligent to recognize that when one says "all I got from that comment was yada yada yada," it's that person's interpretation of what he read, and saliently, not necessarily how the person him/herself might sum up the thoughts written.

 

But hey. You wanna really see someone put words in someone else's mouth? Try this:

In context, this was asserting that point about me. And it's utter nonsense, RE. There is ignorance (by the dictionary use of the term) in characterizing me this way because it's bass-ackwards. I believed the team going into last off-season was on the verge of success given my confidence in the new coach and how I'd seen them take the fight to the Celtics in 6 games.

You own that. But did I bother to slap you around about it? Hell nah, just now bringing it up, given this framing of my remarks as putting words in your mouth. Didn't matter that much to me. You seemed to feel a need to let off some steam, and my reply to you was anything but oppositional.

 

I haven't done the poll to know.

But I'll sleep better tonight knowing RE doesn't care that I hold it. I mean, it already came through without you having to say it, but thanks for that reassurance. You're the best.

More objectively and sans snark... we share the perspective that more people are like you than are like me in that respect. And/but since it's not a matter of popularity, but logic, I'm quite content with my economic view of sports as a consumer entertainment option. I make choices. And one of those choices is to use sports for my pleasure, for my recreation.

Make no mistake, this hasn't always been my paradigm. I've been where you are for most of my life, I promise, RE. It's no fun to feel powerless, to sublet my mood/attitude to how my sports interests are succeeding or not. To be clear, though, you also presumed too much when you said...

... because when you adopt the economic paradigm, one of the freeing things is that there's no one to answer to. To be fair to you, yes, I know you probably took that away from my question "Should I have regrets," but what's missing in your analysis is that I only chose to frame the question that way as a way of prompting people to help me understand what's undergirding any remaining ambition for this franchise under this owner. You took it, evidently, as self-doubt, when it was rather just a choice of words chosen to compel others to think out loud so I could see their thinking.

 

So... these words...

... were mine before you wrote them. I just didn't get upset enough to say them.

I'm bored now. None of this matters to me. Won't be replying to whatever you write in response, so feel free to take advantage of that fact to whatever degree you'd like.

 

Read the first few paragraphs. Not reading anymore of your nonsense. Have a nice day.