talked with owner at game

[DrReality]

this is a post from Realgm.com:

I had a very brief conversation with one of the Hawks owners about Mike Woodson. I will not divulge the owner as it was at the game and I'm not sure if the 2 minute conversation was meant for a message board. The gentleman was very nice and listened politely to my concerns about Woodson.

Here is the gist:

When the Hawks hired Woodson they wanted a young coach who would "play" the young players. He said that veteran coaches were too concerned with their record and often would go with veteran players who would be better in the short run. They wanted a coach who didn't care about his record that would just go with the young guys. (As we have so many young guys I am not sure that a veteran coach would have much choice but whatever).

Second, he called Woodson a "rookie", then corrected himself and said "sophomore"...he said that he makes some mistakes just like a typical rookie, uh, sophomore head coach.

He said that we are on pace to double last years wins...but they weren't happy about 26 wins but yet it was double last year...(He made it sound like they were happy about doubling the wins but made it clear that 26 is still bad...played both sides).

He said that BK defends Woodson to the hilt...BK says the record of the Hawks and their performance is much more related to the GM, not the head coach (I don't buy that)....said that BK dealt Woody a hand and Woody has to play it. He said that Billy thinks that Woodson is like a sacrficial lamb because he had a bad team but expectations were still too high. (I don't buy that either).

He said that they wrestle with some of the same questions as the fans. He also said that he agreed with some of my concerns but disagreed with some others. That was about it.

My take is that our finish this year will determine Woodson's fate. If we play reasonable basketball the last half then Woodson will keep his job for sure. Billy Knight defends this guy to the death and it would take a collective and determined ownership to over-ride Billy Knight. There was no mistaking BK's love for Woody.

He was very nice...said that I could chat with him anytime I see him at Philips. I will wait until another losing streak.

Anyone want to translate?

[Diesel]

Woody is here as a green coach, to develop.

Woody plays guys who are green for the sake of development.

IN both cases, somebody more capable was ignored.

[Hoosier]

Thanks, for the insight from your casual chat Dr.

I have said before, that someone like Silas would not work here, because of what you just said. Someone like Silas would also force BK to make personnel moves that would not be in the long term interest.

[macdaddy]

I think you got the truth. Veteran coaches would be much more interested in winning over development. It totally explains how Delk was sitting the whole year.

I think you're right. If we continue to play could ball and finish with close to 30 wins then Woody will probably be back.

[Guest Walter]

As much as BK is a Woody supporter, there is self-interest involved in BK supporting Woody. The GM all but never gets fired before the coach. Firing a coach buys a GM time. The longer the GM holds out on firing a coach (within reason) the longer it is before he is "on the clock" so to speak.

That being said, if Woody is not the long-term solution (and he never was according to even ownership), it's time to look elsewhere...regardless of whether or not BK is remotely close to fielding a TEAM.

W

[Weez]

true...but unless we brought in a couple of 'significant' FA's (i.e. like the Cassell deal) that are both regular players and veterans...what would be the justification of simply 'firing' the coach/

we have a young team, one that is growing together. We have a relatively 'young' (in terms of age) and green coach who is 'growing' with his players; one that has not had much of a 'competitive' (in terms of talent) 'team' over the past two years (though this year much greater than last)

I think that you see by the 'freudian slips' of the mgt. last year barely counted (by trading Walker, that was highlighted); this is Woody's first 'attempt' with any sort of continuity/expectations...thus, 26-30 wins (especially the higher one) is DECENT/job-appropriate for nearly any coach in a similar situation.

[gsuteke]

the Hawks will pull it together in the 2nd half as they continue to grow together and other teams simply break down physically over the long haul. most teams are 1 injury away from tanking the season. look at Houston.

30 wins is a realistic figure. think of all the close games the Hawks lost early this year. Well the last 2 wins were by 1 point. i believe the 2nd half of the season will show more of the latter.

i personally don't want the #1 pick in the draft if it means having the worse record in the NBA. i'd like to enjoy watching the Hawks this year.

[Lascar78]

Quote:

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i personally don't want the #1 pick in the draft if it means having the worse record in the NBA. i'd like to enjoy watching the Hawks this year.

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I agree. It looks like this will be a very even draft anyhow, with no true stars at the top that everyone is drooling over. I'd like to see us win as many as possible, and do our best with wherever the ping pong balls end up.

[DrReality]

Given this input from the owner, it would stand to reason that any trades before the deadline would be for draft picks or other young talent. They've defined the direction they are going, now what would fit into that plan if they trade Al? Gotta wonder if they stand pat until this summer for a SNT.

We won't have to wait long to find out now. Peace

[KB21]

The translation of this is easy.

When Billy Knight took this job, he took on a massive rebuilding effort. To do it the right way, Billy is exercising extreme patience in his effort. The ultimate goal is to build a team that can compete for a championship, not a team that can get the 8th playoff seed and have no shot at winning in the playoffs. Every move Billy has made is made with an eye towards the future.

Billy also made it very clear when he was going through the coaching search after the 2003-2004 season that he wanted to hire a young coach that could grow with his team. It would have been no different had Billy hired a guy like Mike Brown instead. Mike Brown would have been dealt the same hand, and I highly doubt he would have done much better. As I have said, a veteran coach may have 3-4 more wins at this point simply based on experience.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

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The translation of this is easy.

When Billy Knight took this job, he took on a massive rebuilding effort. To do it the right way, Billy is exercising extreme patience in his effort. The ultimate goal is to build a team that can compete for a championship, not a team that can get the 8th playoff seed and have no shot at winning in the playoffs. Every move Billy has made is made with an eye towards the future.

Billy also made it very clear when he was going through the coaching search after the 2003-2004 season that he wanted to hire a young coach that could grow with his team. It would have been no different had Billy hired a guy like Mike Brown instead. Mike Brown would have been dealt the same hand, and I highly doubt he would have done much better. As I have said, a veteran coach may have 3-4 more wins at this point simply based on experience.

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i'm all for pulling for Billy and Woodson if the Hawks are progressing. in terms of wins this year they are. the question is whether they are progressing fast enough.

Billy Knight has one more year to get a true point guard to if nothing else D up the opposing team's top scorer in the backcourt and a true center. if he does that and Woodson remembers to play all his players (josh smith) and quits with the stupid rotations like Ivey playing 6 mins and sitting the rest of the game I'm right behind them. IF

[Final_quest]

Quote:

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When Billy Knight took this job, he took on a massive rebuilding effort. To do it the right way, Billy is exercising extreme patience in his effort. The ultimate goal is to build a team that can compete for a championship, not a team that can get the 8th playoff seed and have no shot at winning in the playoffs. Every move Billy has made is made with an eye towards the future.

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Despite his mistakes, BK has done a good job of following a blue print to build a great team. It's really too bad that in the NBA it usually takes the best superstars to win a championship.

We need some miraculous acquisitions in the next two years.

[Diesel]

I would do what the owners are doing. I would leave things as they are with only minor changes. Me myself Personally would try to get Jackie Butler or some potential Big in here for the duration of the season. Aside from that, I would let Woody play it out.

I mean, what if Woody can pull out something..

I mean, back in 1982.. Chicago Bulls coach went 19-32 with a good crew.

Another guy took his first team 20-42 in his first season..

That was Jerry Sloan and Flip Saunders... Both young coaches with young teams that took a lot of losses.

[TheDude]

thanks for the info, but your interpretations after every sentence could have been held back...

bash if you want, but i agree with what the owner said. as some point guys you need to make a decision if you want to develop your talent or try to win now at that expense. and clearly BK and the owners want to develop the talent. i applaud them for that....

[KB21]

Mistakes?

What mistakes?

[Lascar78]

good one

[Diesel]

I understand why you applaud..

But i think that there are very few cases where talent has been developed and has led to a championship.

I will start high.

Tim Duncan. There wasn't much to develop here. In fact, a good SA team went in the tank to get Duncan.

Kobe. Kobe has won nothing without Shaq. Shaq and Kobe was a product of trade.

Detroit. Detroit took guys who were good and who were outcasts and made them into a great team. I don't know necessarily if that's development of players moreso than development of a team. I mean BWallace looked good with Orlando. Rip was killing Jordan in Washington. Chauncey was a journeyman. Rasheed was a tempermental star. I don't think any of them had immature games, they just had to be placed under the umbrella.

Jordan and Pippen. All I can say about this is that I know some development took place... BUT.. Thats Jordan. He came into the league scoring about 32 ppg.

Both the Celtics and Lakers Surrounder Bird and Magic with a vet team.

The Bad Boys... they were developed. And they are probably the only "real" example out of about 20 yrs.

[Wretch]

I mean, you are absolutely correct that outside of a particular player or two, good teams are usually built (peiced together via trade/FA) vs. developed.

Today's Pistons are a rare exception to the rule, BUT it is the core that is most important (specifically that ONE special player) to the majority of good teams; and that core is usually drafted.

It's funny you mention Shaq too... Because he and a group of upstarts that Orlando drafted actually took their team to the finals...and had he not defected for LA...? He would have been yet another main cog drafted and developed by a team for a team.

I believe in our case, BK is set on mining at least that core out of the draft and playing them until it is evident that they are exactly that. I can't speak for everyone else in here. But when I think about "developing our talent", I am mostly thinking about that core...that 2 or 3 players that will carry us into the future. I don't expect to grow an entire championship team out of the ground (BTW - we've already traded for a cornerstone in JJ).

Even if we are trying to develop an entire team, I'm cool with that because I know that eventually someone will be traded - and all of our developing will be all the better for their trade value.

[TheDude]

we're not talking develop the entire team....we're talking develop a foundation of a solid team and then see what you have.....then what you don't have, you compliment with free agency.

[Packfill]

If that is the case we have developed a nice core of swingmen and just need some big men and point guards to complete the puzzle.

We are a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without the bread - tasty sure, extremely messy, but not satisfying.