I'M Comfortable with Our Point Guard Situation

[exodus]

JT was, and is, a lousy passer. I remember reading about how his Dallas teamates made fun of him always trying to force passes into such tight areas.

[CrawDaddy]

I think what everyone is ignoring in this thread is that Salim was a rookie and a 2nd round pick to boot. He no doubt has room for vast improvement. That being said, if you look at his athletic set, his ability to shoot and his speed then he has the ability to convert himself into a servicable PG. He just has to get under control, learn to dribble under pressure, and slow down. I don't think he'll be our starter, but he's going to be an integral part of our team IMO.

[Lascar78]

While that's true, he's only a year younger than Joe Johnson for instance. He's new to the leauges, but he's no 18 year old

[CrawDaddy]

True, but Joe has been in the league since he was 18. It's a little different playing in the league than in the Pac 10. I think Salim was just pushing too hard at times trying not to screw up and that will change with time.

[emeans]

All of you all need to calm about trading a KID that only has ONE year under his belt.

We need to flatout ban anyone on this forum that proposes to trade any player that hasn't played AT LEAST 3 YEARS. You guys are jumping the gun way to early on Marvin, Salim, Chillz and Smoove.

Can we please give these guys AT LEAST 3 YEARS before we even conversate about moving them.

This one year and lets trade him crap is ridiculus!!!

First of all trades rarely happen after only 1 year of evaluation of a player with any organization and any professional sport.

[AHF]

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All of you all need to calm about trading a KID that only has ONE year under his belt.

We need to flatout ban anyone on this forum that proposes to trade any player that hasn't played AT LEAST 3 YEARS. You guys are jumping the gun way to early on Marvin, Salim, Chillz and Smoove.

Can we please give these guys AT LEAST 3 YEARS before we even conversate about moving them.

This one year and lets trade him crap is ridiculus!!!

First of all trades rarely happen after only 1 year of evaluation of a player with any organization and any professional sport.

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I agree with the need for patience but it all depends on the deal on the table. Anyone is tradeable.

[DJlaysitup]

I'm not really for trading any particular one of our youngsters - but I am for getting some more experience in here, especially in the paint.

It was recently posted that we going into year 3 of a 4 year plan (so why worry?)...problem is, we likely will have no draft pick next year so the plan needs to be fast-forwarded. If the Hawks put together a 31 win season next year and then we get to sit around and see who PHX picks from our spot it's gonna be a serious bummer...

[DrReality]

For the immediate future I agree. But I think it is essential that we draft a young PG to develop over the next couple of years.

[emeans]

That is exactly my point!!!

You think Boston is kicking itself for trading Joe Johnson in year 1? I know they are!! They traded away a potential superstar in JJ. It took at least 3 years before JJ started realizing his talents. And some you fools are talking about trading away Marvin and Salim year 1. I guarantee if that were to happen (It won't...BK is not that stupid) those same fools would be on this forum talking about we should have kept them a few more years before trading them.

It is just very dumb and stupid to trade a player year 1 in any professional sport and BK knows this.

If we trade Marvin they need to move this team to another city, because we will never build anything worth looking at. The Marvin evaluation talk shouldn't start until AFTER year 3.

[Popeye]

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That is exactly my point!!!

You think Boston is kicking itself for trading Joe Johnson in year 1? I know they are!! They traded away a potential superstar in JJ. It took at least 3 years before JJ started realizing his talents. And some you fools are talking about trading away Marvin and Salim year 1. I guarantee if that were to happen (It won't...BK is not that stupid) those same fools would be on this forum talking about we should have kept them a few more years before trading them.

It is just very dumb and stupid to trade a player year 1 in any professional sport and BK knows this.

If we trade Marvin they need to move this team to another city, because we will never build anything worth looking at. The Marvin evaluation talk shouldn't start until AFTER year 3.

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Right on bud

[Diesel]

The circumstances for Boston were much different. They were a playoff team looking to find the right combination. It was a dumb trade on the surface, but the circumstance for them was that JJ wasn't going to help their playoff run... they needed some players that could.

A case more similar to ours was Philadelphia trading Larry Hughes to GS. Hughes had played in Philly and had shown some flashes.. But where was he going to play? He was not at any time going to be better than Iverson. Iverson was the SG in Philly. Hughes had enough trade value to get them Toni Kukoc.

If you remember, it was Kukoc who made Philly a strong playoff team and it was the trade of Kukoc that got them Deke that made them a NBA Finalist.

Our circumstance is more similar to Philly's in that we don't really have a playoff team. We're trying to put things together. And just like Philly, we have a duplication that really is not going to clear up.

If we can get value for either Jsmoove or Marvin, I'm for it. Hindsight is worthless. What we need is foresight... and foresight shows that we have two players who mentally play the same position and a team filled with holes...

[AHF]

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That is exactly my point!!!

You think Boston is kicking itself for trading Joe Johnson in year 1? I know they are!! They traded away a potential superstar in JJ. It took at least 3 years before JJ started realizing his talents. And some you fools are talking about trading away Marvin and Salim year 1. I guarantee if that were to happen (It won't...BK is not that stupid) those same fools would be on this forum talking about we should have kept them a few more years before trading them.

It is just very dumb and stupid to trade a player year 1 in any professional sport and BK knows this.

If we trade Marvin they need to move this team to another city, because we will never build anything worth looking at. The Marvin evaluation talk shouldn't start until AFTER year 3.

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You can find examples on either side of this issue (for example, the Hawks traded Rumeal Robinson after one year with the team and got Mookie Blalock. That was a fantastic deal.

What matters is the value you are acquiring. Trading young players or for young players before they show what they have is riskier for both sides because there is less information on which to base that decision. Since nobody knows exactly how the player will pan out the risk is much higher than with someone like Philly's trade for Dikembe where they knew exactly what they were getting and Atlanta knew what it was giving up.

However, it is riskier for both sides and you can trade the young guys but you need to get sufficient value. For the Hawks, that means a young building block not a couple of vets with expiring contracts like the Celtics got for JJ.

[emeans]

I am pretty sure you kind find a few success stories with guys being traded too early in their careers.

Golden State traded Gilbert Arenas a year too early. I believe we traded Diaw a year too early.

Rumeal Robinson didn't show flashes of anything, no potential when he played for the Hawks so I can kind of understand that trade even though I still don't believe in trading a player in or after year 1.

Marvin and Salim both have shown flashes of greatness and unrealized potential, so it would be foolish to trade them this early.

It all depends on the organizations ability to see the potential a player will have with a little experience under their belts. You CLEARLY see massive potential in Marvin and Salim and we want to trade them after year 1??

No Way!!

[Peoriabird]

Don't you think that Chicago fans are hurting watching Elton Brand dominate in the playoffs

[AHF]

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Don't you think that Chicago fans are hurting watching Elton Brand dominate in the playoffs

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They should be but they knew what they were giving up. He played two years in Chicago and averaged 20.1 ppg and 10+ rebounds both seasons. They were idiots to make that trade but the problem sure wasn't giving up on a young guy too early.

Here is the better question, if the Clippers had not traded their pick on draft night and took Tyson Chandler and had been offered Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler after Chandler's first year don't you think the Clippers should have done the trade? Hell yeah, they should have!

Young players aren't immune from trade. You need to get value for them but anyone is tradeable.

[frosgrim]

Actually, Pitino paniced because they were floundering. I was in Connecticut at the time, and it was a considered a bad trade at the time by Boston fans. And it turned out that way. All they got was a year of Rogers and I think Delk for a couple of years. Not a good trade in the long run for the Cs. Plus, they were out of the playoffs in the second round, to the Nets if I remember correctly. The Cs did not get equal value for JJ and what they got only duplicated what they already had in place. RR was Walker light and Delk was what Delk is.

[Plainview1981]

You don't start Eddie House II without an extremely talented starting lineup.

[Packfill]

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That is exactly my point!!!

You think Boston is kicking itself for trading Joe Johnson in year 1? I know they are!! They traded away a potential superstar in JJ. It took at least 3 years before JJ started realizing his talents. And some you fools are talking about trading away Marvin and Salim year 1. I guarantee if that were to happen (It won't...BK is not that stupid) those same fools would be on this forum talking about we should have kept them a few more years before trading them.

It is just very dumb and stupid to trade a player year 1 in any professional sport and BK knows this.

If we trade Marvin they need to move this team to another city, because we will never build anything worth looking at. The Marvin evaluation talk shouldn't start until AFTER year 3.

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Poor Celtics fans. They gave up on Chancey Billups in his first year as well.

Utah may be over the Dominique trade by now.

There are, however, legions of examples where young guys were traded and the team that gave them away are no worse off. Think the Clippers really miss Darius Miles? Is Vancuver really pissed about jettisoning a young Antonio Daniels? Is Chicago really pissed about trading away Eddie Curry? Does Golden State regret trading Billy Owens for Mitch Richmond? Did Indiana do well by trading the Antonio Davis for a draft pick that ended up being Johnathan Bender?

[Diesel]

I have to disagree here.

Pitino was gone when JJ was traded. It was Obrien's team.

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The race for familiarity didn't get off on the right foot. Since supplying NBA fans with one of the few trading deadline deals, the Celtics lost their first three games with Delk and Rogers on board. Making matters worse was

how uncomfortable both the newcomers and their new teammates looked while trying to rediscover the 12 guys-one cab mentality which has made Boston one of the league's most surprising teams.

This wasn't the first impression Boston had bargained for after receiving a combined 23.2 points per game for three players (Joe Johnson, Randy Brown, Milt Palacio)

who had totally escaped coach Jim O'Brien's rotation.

But you'll have to cut the Celtics a little slack. Trading for a post-season run is just another in a long list of unfamiliar scenarios that Boston hasn't experienced since the storied organization last made the playoffs seven seasons ago.

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Actually, Delk became a starting Point Gaurd that helped stabilize the team to get them into the playoffs..

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Wallace has only had one first round to work on without Pitino and that was the 2001 draft where he had three picks (the 2002 pick was traded). Here is how it shook out:

2001 Joe Johnson (10th pick)

Kedrick Brown (11th pick)

Joe Forte (21st Pick)

The jury is still out on players drafted in 2001 but this was not a great performance. Johnson may develop but has been inconsistent as a pro. Brown is a great athlete but he is very raw and it if he does develop I cannot see him with any more upside than an Eddie Robinson. Forte has been a disaster and looks like he will be teaming up in an NBDL backcourt with Omar Cook shortly. It is tough to criticize Wallace for missing on mid-round picks (we have already covered the relative worth of NBA draft picks) but he did have three picks and some of the players he passed on are much better than who he chose: Vladimir Radmanovic, Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy, Jason Collins, Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas, and Jamal Tinsley. You would think with three chances, Wallace would have hit one of them. Again, you cannot make any definitive judgment about Wallace on one draft but he certainly did not impress.

Transactions: Trades/Signings

Since 2001, Wallace has made only two major moves, he traded Joe Johnson for Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk and he traded Kenny Anderson for Vin Baker. These were, however, instructive transactions.

The Johnson trade represented Wallace's willingness to seize opportunities, it was a trade at the 2002 deadline, trading youth for experience. Delk and Rogers were major contributors to the 2002 playoff run. Without Rogers' perimeter play, the Celtics probably would have lost to Philly and Mutombo in the first round.

Delk continues to contribute this year and Wallace had to let Rogers go because management was paring payroll to sell the team. Johnson may still blossom into a good player but he probably will never be the type of player worth keeping at the expense of making the deep 2002 playoff run.

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