In a matter of days...

[CBAreject]

The forum has gone from mostly anti-tank to mostly pro-tank. Just a week ago I was getting slammed for talking about tanking. Now, that's almost all that people are talking about.

Amazing what a couple of listless defeats against mediocre to poor teams will do for the morale of a fan-base.

Anyway, I'm glad people are finally on-board the Tank Engine. Hold on, because this job is far, far from done. I don't trust this franchise to tank correctly anymore than I trust them to draft correctly or hire the right coach. We need some people to write to the AS and encourage them on keeping Woodson for the remainder of this year and instructing him to play JJ less.

[AHF]

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The forum has gone from mostly anti-tank to mostly pro-tank. Just a week ago I was getting slammed for talking about tanking. Now, that's almost all that people are talking about.

Amazing what a couple of listless defeats against mediocre to poor teams will do for the morale of a fan-base.

Anyway, I'm glad people are finally on-board the Tank Engine. Hold on, because this job is far, far from done. I don't trust this franchise to tank correctly anymore than I trust them to draft correctly or hire the right coach. We need some people to write to the AS and encourage them on keeping Woodson for the remainder of this year and instructing him to play JJ less.

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Color me slow. I just got the Thomas the "tank engine" reference. lol

[Packfill]

I think the decision was made for us. The organization has given every indication that they have thrown in the towel - from the owners on down.

[TheDude]

And i still think tanking is dangerous...we fall out of that top 3 and phoenix gets the pick and we've wasted it...then again, the playoffs dont exactly look doable...

and honestly i'm sick of young guys...i really think we need to spend some cash.

[Packfill]

Well, part of the rationale for stockpiling young talent is to trade it for veterans. Ergo, the next logical step is trading for a veteran who can make a difference.

A couple of people, myself included, have thrown out the idea of creating some type of package with Zaza, Marvin, Salim, Lue and the Indy pick to get a bona fide post presence such as Garnett, J. O'Neal, E. Brand, P. Gasol, etc. If the ownership is willing to pay, then this is a viable way to improve the franchise.

A coaching change goes without saying.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

well you won't see me switch and jump on the tank bandwagon. tanking destroys confidence, not make our situation better.

[gsuteke]

dude you and Walter are using the wrong term. nobody wants to see a team "tank." i believe that most of us agree that losing games has become a somewhat productive endeavor that this point however.

not getting upset if your team loses is entirely different than hoping they "tank."

[drzachary]

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dude you and Walter are using the wrong term. nobody wants to see a team "tank." i believe that most of us agree that losing games has become a somewhat productive endeavor that this point however.

not getting upset if your team loses is entirely different than hoping they "tank."

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Exactly, there's rooting against your team in the hopes that they get a high pick (a dilemma) and there's hoping that the TEAM decides it wants to lose. One probably impacts the players' progress and confidence, one doesn't.

[Sothron]

I hope they tank like a damn M-A1 Abrams baby. I want as many lottery balls as possible for the chance to get Oden.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

this board is just in shock over that hornet loss. i am too. so this swing in opinion is somewhat expected. don't be shocked if we win tonight. a team can sometimes rally the troops and play inspired basketball the next game. pro sports is funny like that.

[gsuteke]

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this board is just in shock over that hornet loss. i am too. so this swing in opinion is somewhat expected. don't be shocked if we win tonight. a team can sometimes rally the troops and play inspired basketball the next game. pro sports is funny like that.

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the Hawks will lose by 25 tonight. call your local bookie to see if he's stupid enough to let you bet against the Hawks.

[Diesel]

What the hell are you talking about??

[Duff_Man]

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this board is just in shock over that hornet loss. i am too. so this swing in opinion is somewhat expected. don't be shocked if we win tonight. a team can sometimes rally the troops and play inspired basketball the next game. pro sports is funny like that.

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the Hawks will lose by 25 tonight. call your local bookie to see if he's stupid enough to let you bet against the Hawks.

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Wow!! The Hawks are only getting 7.5!!!!!

And people forget to include Smith in the trade talks. I would ship him out in a heartbeat for the right offer.

[DJlaysitup]

Tank baby...just tank. Just let JJ get double teamed and nobody will do sh#t to help him.....heartless basta--rds

[Guest Walter]

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dude you and Walter are using the wrong term. nobody wants to see a team "tank." i believe that most of us agree that losing games has become a somewhat productive endeavor that this point however.

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You gotta get over yourself, your ego, and this year's team and focus upon the next 10 teams, this franchise itself, to do this right, ya'll.

BTW, I define "tank" as management making decisions which effectively tie one hand behind the team's back. Essentially no matter how hard players compete they will lose enough games. That being said, like Oden with his one hand behind his back, this team and its players should continue to compete. Truth is I don't fault Bobby Sura. I fault management for not stepping in and trading Sura (for peanuts if that's what it took). Same with whoever else they didn't see as a long-term part of the team. If BK didn't like Pryz at it seemed, why keep him around at all for half a season when he costs you immensely valuable draft positions.

In this sense we have not begun to tank and I doubt we will. BK will attempt to save his job over make a winner (which he is inept at anyhow). A few meaningless wins will accomplish the later amidst this ownership chaos. We may still suck enough, but without truly tanking (again, management's operation, not the players) there are too many variables that will prevent us from likely winning a top 3 pick. That's why you have to get past the word "tank", all the uneasy feelings that come with the idea, and embrace the notion of management do what is best for this franchise for the next 10 years at least.

W

[CBAreject]

No, Walter, they want to tank half-way. They want to wait another 2 months "just to see". What they will see is something horrible like a 12-16 streak or something that's just a little too good for tanking but still far too bad for approaching the playoffs. We'll be in that no-man's land that is the 6th-9th draft spots. Does anyone wonder why Golden State was there for an eternity? It's hard as hell to get better when you're in that region. It took a miracle Biedrins at the 9 spot or so and an Ellis windfall in the 2nd round to make them a dark-horse contender for the 8th spot (and they probably still won't make it!). Golden State is probably still screwed. The Knicks are screwed because they didn't value their draft picks. This year, without Curry, they'd be at the bottom. They'd have Aldridge on board and a great chance at Oden. Now, they're screwed. They have no way to improve.

People don't understand just how critical this game is. They say "We have too many young guys. We don't need any more". The problem is, the only draft we had a top 3 pick in was a weak draft. The other picks we had were low because we won meaningless games. Try to build a team with young guys that are 6th picks and 17th picks and such, and you'll have a bad team. Build a team with young guys that are 'Brons, Melos, Boshes, Wades, Odens, Durants, etc., and you'll have a pretty good team.

Being young is only a problem if you're not superbly talented. Then you have to learn the NBA game to be productive. Most of these truly dominant players are productive right away. Then they become very good. Then they become dominant.

[Guest Walter]

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No, Walter, they want to tank half-way. They want to wait another 2 months "just to see". What they will see is something horrible like a 12-16 streak or something that's just a little too good for tanking but still far too bad for approaching the playoffs. We'll be in that no-man's land that is the 6th-9th draft spots.

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...a good tank. Holding out "hope" for a handout, a miracle. You've gotta first realize that the situation we're in offers NO HOPE for title contention. A pick in the 7-10 region, even if we could keep it, doesn't make for franchise fortune reversals. We only keep ours if its top 3 and our ownership will not spend to improve. Only a good tank can save us now. Instead, people want to hedge their bets, save face, they'd rather tell their "NBA team of the month" friends about how the Hawks had a good 7-13, 20 game run to end the season and how Pheonix will misuse the #6 overall pick (you'll see). "We're going to really improve next season on our 28-54 record". They don't want to be laughed at. Nobody takes them seriously. Most pity them. They just hope for the same meaningless end season .350, 20 game up-swing EVERY YEAR. The franchise or the next 10 years be d@mned, it's about now and their annual fit of pride.

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People don't understand just how critical this game is. They say "We have too many young guys. We don't need any more". The problem is, the only draft we had a top 3 pick in was a weak draft.

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...and we still botched it.

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Being young is only a problem if you're not superbly talented. Then you have to learn the NBA game to be productive. Most of these truly dominant players are productive right away. Then they become very good. Then they become dominant.

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Well said. I posted Shaq's rookie stats. Given Odens with one hand as a college freshman are almost identical to Shaq's as a college freshman, he's a man-child who could step in despite two less years in college and immediately be very productive. We need that guy more than we need the good feeling of Bobby Sura getting a few triple doubles and riding off into the sunset. We can't have both. That's what everybody must understand. You can't have both. You can't want your meaningless end season .350, 20 game up-swing EVERY YEAR and become a contender. Just doesn't happen. At some point, when the opportunity presents itself one way or the other, you have to take it. We don't have an opportunity any other way but to tank. & again, we can't have it both ways.

W

[gsuteke]

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dude you and Walter are using the wrong term. nobody wants to see a team "tank." i believe that most of us agree that losing games has become a somewhat productive endeavor that this point however.

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You gotta get over yourself, your ego, and this year's team and focus upon the next 10 teams, this franchise itself, to do this right, ya'll.

BTW, I define "tank" as management making decisions which effectively tie one hand behind the team's back. Essentially no matter how hard players compete they will lose enough games. That being said, like Oden with his one hand behind his back, this team and its players should continue to compete. Truth is I don't fault Bobby Sura. I fault management for not stepping in and trading Sura (for peanuts if that's what it took). Same with whoever else they didn't see as a long-term part of the team. If BK didn't like Pryz at it seemed, why keep him around at all for half a season when he costs you immensely valuable draft positions.

In this sense we have not begun to tank and I doubt we will. BK will attempt to save his job over make a winner (which he is inept at anyhow). A few meaningless wins will accomplish the later amidst this ownership chaos. We may still suck enough, but without truly tanking (again, management's operation, not the players) there are too many variables that will prevent us from likely winning a top 3 pick. That's why you have to get past the word "tank", all the uneasy feelings that come with the idea, and embrace the notion of management do what is best for this franchise for the next 10 years at least.

W

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actually Walt you gotta get over yourself my friend.