Shelden: Disappointment

[DrReality]

Here's an excert from an article in the AJC.

playing rotation because, as coach Mike Woodson put it, he isn't "doing enough of the dirty work we drafted him to do."

The fifth pick in last June's draft, the Hawks bucked conventional wisdom and took the player they felt would best serve their needs as a defender, rebounder and shot blocker at power forward. But Williams hasn't been a difference maker in any of those categories since early January.

He's averaging 5.2 points, 5.3 rebounds and 0.5 blocks in 19.2 minutes. However in the month of February the numbers are just 2.9 points, 2.7 rebounds and 0.1 blocks. His averages have declined steadily in each month of the season, bottoming out this month with single digit minutes in nine of the 12 games he's played in.

"I'm going to stay on him to do [the dirty work] and his minutes will continue to be based on that," Woodson said. "A lot of times matchups have been the problem. It's tough to play him on some of the power forwards that are really perimeter guys. They can put the ball on the floor and shoot it, and it's tough to put him out there in those situations."

It's been even tougher for Williams to make the adjustment from being a mainstay at Duke to a role player for the Hawks.

Bottom line: Solomon has shown him up when he got the chance.

Link: http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/printedi...hawks0228a.html

[exodus]

Wow. You don't see Woody call a player out publicly very often.

I didn't like the Shelden pick but honestly i thought he would be much more productive than he has been.

[Sothron]

I honestly do not know how anyone who watched him at Duke for four years is surprised at his pathetic NBA play. Shellhead was dominated by talented big men in college and is simply too short, too slow and has no vertical to be any kind of defender and rebounder in the NBA. On top of that he has zero offensive game. He can't score in the low post, he has no jumper, he has nothing to offer on either side of the court.

The fact our genius GM didn't even work the guy *out* to see him firsthand just shows how poorly they scouted him and how poorly Knight thinks out draft picks.

[thesheedera]

I didn't like the pick, but I was ready to give him the benefit of the doubt and frankly I still am. He's less than a year in, and just because he was deemed "NBA Ready" by some experts, there's no way to tell who will adjust immediately and who won't.

I still think he'll be a solid NBA PF by his third season. i don't think he'll ever be a great defensive player, but I think his offense will be better than is expected. He's in the doghouse, he's got a harness on his shoulder, and he's never been a bench player in his life. The dude's got a lot of gut-check to deal with. I think he'll bounce back.

Woodson rarely does this sort of thing, and I'm guessing he believes it'll help Shelden get back on track. We could use a solid lost post presence.

I've been patient with Childress (another 4 year college player taken too high), Smith and Marvin, no reason I shouldn't be patient with Shelden.

But....if he does prove to be a huge bust, the UNC fan in me will be snickering with joy.

[thesheedera]

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Shellhead was dominated by talented big men in college

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He gave up some huge numbers to guys like Sean May, but he usually posted big numbers against those guys as well.

The dookie defenders will always argue (and to some extent rightfully so), that Shelden never got the benefit of double and triple teaming in the post that big men on other teams typically get. I personally think he was a really good defender, but not as great as advertised. He blocked a lot of shots but he gave up a lot of points. He was definitely a weapon I would have loved to have had on my team.

As an offensive player I think he got completely jobbed by K's obsession with jacking 3's. Had he played for Roy Williams or another coach that believs in "inside-out" hoops and high percentage shots, Shelden would have easily been over 20 ppg. As it was, he put up solid scoring numbers putting back missed shots and grabbing loose balls. They would have won at least one championship during the Shelden-Redick years had K developed a more balanced offensive attack.

[mrhonline]

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Wow. You don't see Woody call a player out publicly very often.

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Not true. He's done the same thing with all of the young wings. And it's worked really well so far.

I would agree that these comments are the most direct, though.

[AtLaS]

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I didn't like the pick, but I was ready to give him the benefit of the doubt and frankly I still am. He's less than a year in, and just because he was deemed "NBA Ready" by some experts, there's no way to tell who will adjust immediately and who won't. I still think he'll be a solid NBA PF by his third season.

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So what was the reason in drafting him? If he can't play PF for OUR team (Smith plays there), then why promise him at 5?? Just a huge mistake by BK. I do actually think Shelden will be a decent player, but he has no place on this team.

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i don't think he'll ever be a great defensive player,

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If this is the case then he was a HUGE mistake.

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I've been patient with Childress (another 4 year college player taken too high)

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Childress came out after his junior year.

[gsuteke]

Shelden played fine earlier in the season. I will agree he's been a dissapointment thus far, but not to the point where he should be invisible.

How many times have people brought up "Woody's doghouse" on this forum?

the only players that have been immune to Woody's proverbial house of trouble this season are Chillz, Marvin, Smoove, and Joe. 3 players that have been injured and your "superstar." granted other players have been injured also like the player in question on this thread. Marvin has been terrible in stretches this year, Smoove's shooting has flat out sunk this team at times this season. Woodson clearly has his favorites.

to use some me language i don't know how Woody "manages his room." I can say that I don't believe the players respond to him. I originally registered on this site after surfing it a few weeks to vent about the team's lack of willpower on the defensive end. this team is too young and athletic to be getting abused on the defensive end the way have the past two seasons.

Early on Shelden was smart. Shelden played the passing lanes. Shelden played for good position in the box. Shelden rebounded the basketball. Shelden scored a few points. Now all of a sudden he's not good enough to see minutes.

I'm not attempting to jack your thread here, I just believe the entire team has been underperforming and there are secondary issues involved.

[vdunkndunk]

The biggest thing that's turning me against BK is Shelden and Speedy. Those two moves came back to back, and they were both a major disaster in my opinion.

We would have been better off just drafting Roy or Foye. Then we wouldn't have needed to sign Speedy, who isn't helping us at all. And that wouldn't have helped our big-man situation, but Shelden hasn't helped it either.

Thinking back to all the opportunities we've squandered just makes me depressed. I don't know what happened...personally I thought Boris, Chill, Smoove, and Marvin were all defensible picks, if not perfect. Same with the JJ trade.

So until this summer I had a comfortable level of trust with BK. I felt like we would always draft someone who could at least play in the NBA, and we wouldn't sign people to stupid contracts. But lately I've become scared to see what we do next. The Shelden thing was pretty much an embarresment, especially if we really did make him a promise.

[gsuteke]

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"I'm going to stay on him to do [the dirty work] and his minutes will continue to be based on that," Woodson said. "A lot of times matchups have been the problem. It's tough to play him on some of the power forwards that are really perimeter guys. They can put the ball on the floor and shoot it, and it's tough to put him out there in those situations."

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How convenient to bring up this point after you have just played Amare and Dirk. J Smoove really shut those two down.

[AtLaS]

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How convenient to bring up this point after you have just played Amare and Dirk. J Smoove really shut those two down.

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Dirk scored 27, he drops 27 on every team they play, not bad.

Smoove actually played well on Amare WHEN he guarded him, Amare had 27 points in the first half, Smith only played 9 minutes and blocked him 4 times. Plus Amare was playing center pretty much the WHOLE game.

[BobWeiss]

Woodson shouldn't take it out on Williams, it's not his fault that he is not a top 5 draft worthy pick. Not only did Billy draft him 5-10 spots early than he was going to go, he let it known in advance who we were taking. At least it saved us an hour of waiting around to see who we would get...

[AtLaS]

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Thinking back to all the opportunities we've squandered just makes me depressed.

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This team has had so many opportunities to get great players and have blown it EVERY time. One less win with Sura and we'd have Dwight. BK selected Marvin over Deron/Paul. Shelden over Roy/Foye. Childress (is still a good player) over Deng/Iguodala.

We never spend cap space and BK is so great about not wasting money, and then he FINALLY signs a pg, and the guy is a career backup with chronic knee problems, who will miss an average of 25-30 games per season, and isn't good even when he IS healthy.

I think about this crap all the time, and it sucks.

[macdaddy]

I've been a little disappointed in his play, but look at the situation he's in. He NEVER gets the ball in any position to score. He can knock down short jumpers but there are no plays run for him. He usually plays with a pg and 3 small forwards and they expect him to be stopping the other teams best post player and bringing down all the rebounds.

We have a severe identity crisis. If we are going to play small ball with a 6'8" center we need an offense that moves quicker.

[GST]

Williams response:

"It's hard to see where [Woodson] is coming from now when he wants you to pick up fouls just to pick up fouls. If you don't, the next thing you know you're sitting on the bench watching. Sometimes I don't know if it's me struggling to understand where he is coming from or what."

[AtLaS]

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it's not his fault that he is not a top 5 draft worthy pick.

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I swear if I hear this about another BK pick, I'm gonna shoot myself. I hear this about every player he drafts.

[AtLaS]

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Williams response:

"It's hard to see where [Woodson] is coming from now when he wants you to pick up fouls just to pick up fouls. If you don't, the next thing you know you're sitting on the bench watching. Sometimes I don't know if it's me struggling to understand where he is coming from or what."

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God not another Diaw situation..

I thought Woodson and BK were friends, doesn't Woodson at least give some input on who BK drafts? I bet he was shaking his head when we got Shelden.

[TexasPete]

Shelden's flaws for the pro game were very easy to see. The guy had no real low post moves, he just overpowered lesser players in college. You can't do that in the NBA unless you are a freak and he is clearly not. He also suffers from below average athleticism which is a killer in the NBA. The lack of athleticism leads him to get beat off the dribble which means his defense suffers and that is why we drafted him.

Here is my huge issue...BK did not bother to bring him in for a workout. Why?

BK promised him a month before the draft, and knew he was drafting Shelden by about February. I'm telling you that BK was drafting Shelden NO MATTER WHERE the Hawks picked. He thought that Shelden was the answer to our prayers in the middle and when he is convinced there is no convincing him otherwise.

Childress has a similar scoring issue but he has a few other ways to score because he can move. But, you CANNOT FIX what ails Shelden in the NBA game. I'm hoping that he can grow into a 8/8 guy at some point and I also realize his defense is more of an liability than an asset and that will likely always be the case.

Does anybody think he isn't putting out? No. He is doing the best he can and therein lies the big problem.

[Diesel]

I agree with what you're saying here.

I think Woody is being very short sided. We can run a Zone and leave Shelden in the middle and I believe we'd benefit. I just think Woody is being very short sided with his defensive schemes.. Your PF doesn't always have to step out.

I also think that Shelden does need to step it up with the dirty work. Mainly rebounding. The article was very biased the way it mentioned the drop off in Shelden's stats but failed to mention the drop off in his playing time...

If you took JJ and cut his minutes to 9 mpg, he wouldn't do a whole lot either.

[thesheedera]

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So what was the reason in drafting him? If he can't play PF for OUR team (Smith plays there),

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At the time of the draft Josh Smith was certainly not a slam dunk at the 4. All last season the debate was whether or not Smith could handle the 4, and it seemed like either Marvin or Smith was redundant at the 3. Now it's very clear that Smith can be a unique kind of 4 that some nights will be beat up down low, but for the most part cause so many problems for the opposing player that it's better for the team. Nevertheless, Shelden is a protypical 4 man, and it never hurts to have that. Also, it was thought that he might be able to play some at the 5. With certain matchups, I think he can.

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then why promise him at 5??

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Please don't get me wrong here. I'm not someone who was excited about the pick at all, but I'm holding out hope that he'll be really good. I thought #5 was a bit of a reach, but I thought anything below 10 would have been a steal. The "Promise" was a one of the all time great Hawks draft blunders.

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i don't think he'll ever be a great defensive player,

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If this is the case then he was a HUGE mistake.

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I don't think so. I don't think he has to be a great defender to become a top 5 pick kind of guy. I think he needs to be a really good defender, but I'm not sure what the cut-off is there between really good and great. What I'm trying to say is that I think his all around game is what his team will benefit from when he's adjusted and healthy. I doubt he'll ever be an All NBA Defensive Team kind of guy, and I don't think he needs to be to justify choosing him as a defensive presence. I think he was overrated defensively, but I don't think he was a poor defender by any means.

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I've been patient with Childress (another 4 year college player taken too high)

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Childress came out after his junior year.

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[/indent]

Fair enough, still taken too high in my opinion. These two guys remind me a lot of each other in what they bring to the team and what their potential is as a pro. I think Shelden's potential is still better than Childress in the long term.

Would I rather that we had picked Roy??? Absolutely. But that's not gonna make me get pissed at Shelden, I'm holding out hope until he gets some solid NBA experience.