Back into Time: To find the BIG CP3 Fans...

[Brotha2ThaNite]

I wanted to see if there were any Big CP3 fans just before/after the draft. I did not find any BIG CP3 fans.

Just like I thought, there are a lot of "Monday Morning QBs CP3 FANS" on here.

troubleman, you wanted a PG over Marvin but you were not a big Paul fan like you claim to be.

The one PG that got any talk was Deron Williams. I must say I liked him over CP3 too.

But here are some links back in time to see what some of you guy said about the 2005 Draft.

Quote:

---

Re: Players I want no part of in the draft

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....odyprev=1#80836

Nicholasp27:

chris paul

he's too short, and even if he is the next iverson/tj ford, the chances of him being oft-injured are just too high...i'd rather have deron/felton or marvin than paul

Re: Hawks to draft Marvin Williams

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....odyprev=1#80798

Do not see anyone talking about they are piss and want CP3 here.

Majerus says Williams is the best in the draft.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....odyprev=1#80745

No one like CP3 here either. There is more talk of ppl wanting Deron Williams then Paul.

Quote:

---

Mockdrafts on Draftcity & NBADraft already updated

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....odyprev=1#80429

Blunt91:

Those 2 websites have already updated their mockdrafts and both have the Hawks selecting Chris Paul at #2. Andrew Bogut is the #1pick on both drafts.

Funny thing, no one cared for what Blunt91 had to say, AND His post was about getting CP3 at two.

Quote:

---

Re: reasons why we should draft Chris Paul!

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....odyprev=1#79644

DominiqueWilkins:

I wouldn't be happy with Paul, but would support him, and Deron Williams would be my frist choice.

I don't see Paul becoming a superstar.

troubleman:

I would prefer Bogut but if the Hawks draft Paul, Dalembert is the big man I want. My concern with that lineup is the lack of three point shooting. Phoenix has 4 guys in their starting lineup that can drain the three. In that Hawks lineup I don't see one.

Here is the only Thread I ran into that had CP3 even with Marvin. Even then, no one stood out by saying, "I want Paul at 2."

On Draft day...

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....er=83361&Forum=,f1,&Words=draft&Searchpage=1&Limit=200&Main=83360&Search=true&where=sub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=31&oldertype=m&bodyprev=1#83361

Quote:

---

Re: Draft Day has arrived! With that said

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....odyprev=1#86017

Diesel:

I say to be safe... Take Marvin... But by the end of the night, try to have his hat traded for somebody else. namely Paul or Williams.

The key becomes N.O.

Interestingly enough, Toronto plays a big role too!

Quote:

---

After the 2005 Draft...

[DJlaysitup]

Here's something I posted at that time to a different board (since it's not HS, I'll have to cut and paste):

"I would definitely take Paul. He will by far be the class of the field here. Deron has size but not the quickness of Paul. As for Marvin, I would be very concerned that his "potential" may take years to develop (if it ever really does) and Marvin doesn't directly address our need for a one or a five. In short, take Chris Paul!

P.S. - We also have to address our need for another big either through free agency or a future draft. We need to get a solid BIG center. If we fool around for a awhile then get desperate and pick somebody like that kid out of Duke that they are calling "the Landlord" we could really get burned.

P.S.S. - OT, I really think something is going on in pro football. It's like the Patriots know what's going to happen before the ball is even snapped. I sense something fishy"

[txsting]

There is no other board that will pull out old posts like Hawksquawk! I love it!

I don't know if I posted it or not, but I will definitely admit I did not prefer Chris Paul. I thought he would be too small and would be injured a lot. I believe I liked Deron better than Paul, but I was pretty swayed by the conventional thinking that Marvin was the best value pick. Hey, we were wrong and that happens pretty often. I'm not mad at BK for this one. But the Shelden pick was wrong headed and contradictory in every sense.

[jerrywest]

Awesome thread. Thanks.

Classic from Diesel...

Diesel: I say to be safe... Take Marvin... But by the end of the night, try to have his hat traded for somebody else. namely Paul or Williams.

[NJHAWK]

I dont think I was on the Squawk back then but I wanted Marvin Williams because we needed a superstar type player. So far he hasnt showed that even though before he got hurt he was starting to show some signs of it. The book is not closed on this kid yet and he still could be a great player but chances are he is not the superstar we were looking for. As for Paul and Deron I thought Paul was too small to defend in this league and really once the playoffs start I still think that will be the case. Paul on offense however in a superstar, actually a mega superstar. The guy who suprises me is Deron, I thought he would be a bust.

[mrhonline]

I wanted Bogut, and was disappointed that the Bucks took him.

[txsting]

I flipped back through some old posts after seeing this, and it's not real hard to find embarrassing quotes. Including your own. We should have a contest to see who can find the most ridiculously bone-headed statements, in the name of good fun of course.

[DeacKillsaDevil]

Just look at my user name and you can tell what I wanted.

[Packfill]

I quote (myself):

Re: Let's not get carried away BEFORE they play. [Re: Wretch]

Posted: 06/23/05 12:38 PM

Excellent post. I think people are getting carried away by labeling Marvin as a potential superstar. He clearly is not a can't miss prospect in the LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony sense. The guy is a good athlete (not as good as Smoove) with some good skills, but he could just as easily become Billy Owens (for those that don't remember, he was an extremely talented, multi-skilled player for Syracuse that never lived up to his billing) instead of James Worthy.

Quite frankly, if he were drafted, there is no guarantee he becomes as good a player as Smoove or Harrington - both of whom will improve upon last season (Harrington because of the experience of starting for a year and Smoove because of experience).

The Hawks desperately need a center and a point guard. They are in position to address one of those needss. Both Deron and Paul have demonstrated the ability to be potential superstar point guards.

[Packfill]

And again:

Re: Name your top five. [Re: emeans]

Posted: 06/28/05 09:08 AM

1. Chris Paul

2. Deron Williams

3. Andrew Bogut

4. Marvin Williams

It is real close between 1 and 4. I think for me the determining factor and the reason I favor acquiring a point guard is because having a good point guard will immeasurably improve the teams play on the court - proper spacing, ball movement, creative passing have been missing from the Hawks for at least a decade. I really enjoy good team basketball and crave some creativity on the court that only a good point guard can bring.

[AHF]

I was on the phone when the lottery happened and when we got #2 I said "well, looks like we get Chris Paul." I was persuaded by the stats showing how Paul struggled with bigger guards like Jack, and I felt we were near ground zero and wanted the guy who was most likely to be a star. Since all the "experts" said that was Marvin Williams and our GM agreed, I did not have a problem with the pick by the time the draft came. The funny thing about going BPA is that it doesn't work out quite as well when you don't get the BPA - although still better than drafting for need when the player you pick doesn't satisfy the need (cough - Shelden - cough).

[tmac13]

I posted this on 6/24/05

Poster: tmac13

Subject: Re: Who is a good comparison to Marvin?

My hestation(like it matters) with taking Marvin so high is that I simply don't know what we are getting..What I mean, we know that if we take Bogut we get at least an average to good center..I feel pretty certain that if we take Paul or Deron Williams we will at least have an above average point guard for many seasons to come..With Marvin, not only do I not know what to expect, I don't even know what postion he will play..Maybe that would not make me so uneasy except we already have 3 other young, nondefined type players that overlap with Marvin..

BK says Chillz is a 2 guard..Maybe he is..I don't know how he will develope..I know he has a terrible looking, inconsistant shot..He is a very good rebounder and a good slasher..He guards the 3 well, but seems to have alot of trouble with smaller and quicker 2's..BK has steadfastly maintained that Smoove is a 3..Alot of us think he could be a more effective 4..His interior defensive potential, his strong rebounding, and his lack of handles to go along with his yet to be known jumpshot tell me he could be a nice 4..The Hawks don't seem to agree. Al is all over the place..He is strong enough to match a few 5's, easily strong enough to play the 4, but is soft defensively and is not a strong rebounder considering his size..He actually plays smaller than his size. Now it seems we are likely to add Marvin to that mix..He is almost identical in size to Smoove, not as athletic, but has a better shot and better handles..He does have Garnett-like skills, except he is at least 4 inches shorter..Some say he is like a healthy Mashburn, some say James Worthy with a jumpshot..I can see some of those guys, along with some Tim Thomas, some Billy Owens, some Lamar Odom, even a little Danny Manning..He is one of the MANY, multitalented, nonshelfish, long atheletic 3/4/don't knows that have come out in recent years..NONE of these type players has led their teams to a championship..These type of players are so pretty to watch but seemingly always leave you looking and waiting for their potential to be filled..Meanwhile, tough hardnosed pointguards and bigmen are actually winning the titles..

Therefore my wish list is....

Bogut..If the Bucks somehow pass him up..

Paul..If you have ever watched him play you can see the potential greatness..

Deron Williams..Bigger and stronger than Paul, but he is just lacking that intangible that you know Paul has..And remember at Illinois, Deron basically played with 2 other NBA quality point guards to share the offensive duties..Paul was a one man gang guardwise at Wake Forest.

Ok, I am ready to get lit-up by the we love potential, we need a superstar gang that loves the idea of having a highlight reel player more than they want to be a strong title contending team in a few years..I will only point out this years playoffs, all the real contenders had strong pointguards and tough interior oriented bigmen..Then look at all the superstars of the softer, but pretty to watch variety that are sitting home watching Duncan and the Wallaces fight it out for the title.....

Yeah, I was either a Bogut or Paul guy. I think the smart money is always on the bigs and the points. Wings are usually a dime a dozen.

[Admin]

Quote:

---

Best midrange jumper I have ever seen from a PG coming into the NBA straight from college. I have said that all along about him. He can shoot from downtown as well, although not as well as Chris Paul. Deron was/is/will be my choice for our draft pick, although I would greatly prefer that we move down a pick or two in order to do it so that we can get something else as well. He is just so incredibly fundamentally sound and to think of how much better he WILL make Childress, Smooth, and Harrington is scary. I am mixed up about what Marvin can do because he has never blown me away with anything he has done, but Deron blew me away every time I saw him last year, especially in that Arizona game. We must get a great PG that can defend the Billups and Parkers of this league and who can run an offense. I think taking a PG this year is extremely important because its the most difficult position to learn in the NBA and therefore we should give that position time to develop.

Quote:

---

Response by KB: He's Andre Miller with a better jumper. The lack of explosion from him will keep him from being an elite point guard.

[Johnnybravo4]

Lol and Walter thinking that Ukic being a better pick than Tony Parker. But then again I thought that Zaza could be a poor man's Dirk.

[Diesel]

Speaking of the CP3 vs. Marvin argument... Let me educate here...

6-29-05

Quote:

---

My whole point is that there was a better pick for the Hawks than Bogut or Marvin.

I felt Defensively Bogut would not stop anybody. He talks a good game... but what does he do.. Milwaukee will see. I think that's why the pundits last night basically said Milwaukee has NO SHOT at even making the playoffs. IF Bogut was as good as his hype, they wouldn't have said that.

Secondly..

About Marvin. Again.. He's not the best fit for the Hawks. Everyone here readily admits that he's BPA.. I'm saying I don't think he's better than Paul or Deron for US. Moreover, I have my doubts that he's better than Tim Thomas. That's not to say he will be a bust, he's just not a good fit for us and We BOUGHT the hype.. But we will see.

Quote:

---

Haha...

First off... PGs don't grow on trees. If they did, we'd have more than Lue. Secondly... the draft won't produce PGs this calibre for some time. Even if it did, that's still at least 2 years waiting for them to become good enough to lead us to a championship.

Last.. While we're waiting... we're going to start losing our own FAs.. We're the Clipps.

7-12-2005

Quote:

---

I think Marvin will be the second coming of Lamar Odom without the drugs...

He will be a very skilled player but not a player with the personality to carry a team. I just don't see the superstar mentality in Marvin.

I still believe that Deron will be as good if not better than Kidd, especially in UTAH. IN Utah, Deron will be put in the same system that Stockton played in and the difference between Deron and Kidd is defense and FG%.

I still believe that Paul will be ROY and if he remains Durableenough he will show better than Howard and Okafor last year. I think Paul will be the first 18-20 ppg rookie that has played since Lebron.

Mark it down, take a picture remember it!

Quote:

---

About Paul and Deron, they have played the best in College basketball and have shined most of the time. I can't find one game where Marvin has shined against quality competition. Grab Iowa State and put Marvin on the floor and he will look good... But what happens against Kentucky, Ga Tech, WFU, and Duke?

6-11-05

Quote:

---

I certainly think that Paul can be an allstar or even superstar on this level, but I think it all boils down to his durability.

I think he's tall enough for this league.

I think he has blow by you speed.

I think he's a floor general.

I think he's a good defender in the mode of Iverson.

My concern is that he will have to deal with injuries... If he is durable, he's the best player in this draft.

6-27-05

Quote:

---

I think we have exhausted the discussion on Marvin. I think a more interesting question is Paul or Deron.

I was firmly in Deron's corner until I heard Byron Scott Gushing over Paul.

I think both Paul and Williams are head and shoulders above Felton as Williams proved in the Bobcat workout earlier this month.

I love Williams' defense and Pure PG ability.

I love Paul's offense and speed.

It's a hard choice. I listen to Scott because while he praised Williams also, he actually got out on the floor with Paul and talked about his speed, his strength, and his control. When you watch Paul you see his control and his speed, but the strength is an aspect that you sometimes miss.

I have always believed that Paul would be the biggest star to come out of this draft and now I'm starting to wonder, why not us? Seriously, Paul could be the Mike Vick of the NBA for the Hawks...

Can you see..

Paul, Smoove, Chill, and Al on the break?

6-26-05

Quote:

---

This is a lame argument. #1 because I don't think anyone has said we need those guys to make the playoffs this yr..

It's all about completeness and grabbing neccessary talent. Paul and Williams are very talented PGs. That's a position that we come into this draft desperately needing to fill and one of these could be a guy that will be a superstar at the position for years to come.

You keep making MWill sound like he can walk on water and feed the sick but the truth of the matter is that there's a lot of hype there and I wouldn't be so quick to say that he's better than J-Smoove.

6-25-05

Quote:

---

Here's the main problem. I don't think anybody is saying that we need the PG to make the team a playoff team next season (although that very well could happen).. I think what you miss and what you try to deny is how good these guys (Paul, Williams) are. KB, you spend a lot of time talking up and making up stuff about M. Williams BUT the truth is that he's not as good as you say. When you look at the PGs, they are more than a temporary fix, these guys could be the top 2 PGs in the league in 3 yrs. So you're talking about a leader for the team. Also, Sfs will come and will go, but a PG has the capability of making a team a championship team. That's why it's so interesting that you would continue to trumpet that Williams is a better pick for us.. Because mainly..

1. We have a developing star at Sf.

2. We have a serious need for a PG or C.

3. These PGs are top of the line.

It was so embarrassing reading the article on Bogut this morning. He named off what the team could be if he came and he said.. "Tyrone Lue at the PG"... or whatever the Hawks can do at PG. Everybody knows that Lue is BU material that shouldn't be starting. To grab one of these guys would be the start of what could be a dynasty.

That's why I'm your favorite poster!

[hawkman]

I guess what's done is done, but you were right on the money with this one. We REALLY needed a PG and had two handed to us on a silver platter. Now about you appauding BK picking Shelden.....

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

I guess what's done is done, but you were right on the money with this one. We REALLY needed a PG and had two handed to us on a silver platter. Now about you appauding BK picking Shelden.....

No Shelden. No Bibby.

Just joking.

I still believe that Shelden from a non-hindsight perspective was still the best pick at the time. 5 Sfs and a SG.. we needed somebody who could rebound and defend... Shelden just couldn't deliver what we needed. Nor did he get the PT to establish himself either. It will be interesting to see how the rest of his season goes.

[DJlaysitup]

Quote:

---

Speaking of the CP3 vs. Marvin argument... Let me educate here...

Blah Blah Blah - a bunch of important historical stuff

That's why I'm your favorite poster!

You got it close to right.

I had a different approach to that draft (that I didn't post cause I was just starting HS but discussed it with friends). I wanted a double trade down. I can't remember who it would have entailed exactly but it would have given us a Center, JJack, and Garcia. It would have used up our #2 to get there too. It was designed to fill all of our holes.

Anyway - it probably wouldn't have worked but I was really afraid of Marvin. I honestly figured that JJack would be as good as a pro as Paul since he did well against him in the ACC and was more physical.......well there you go.....I was flat assed wrong. But my plan still may have been better than BK's.

[troubleman]

Quote:

---

troubleman, you wanted a PG over Marvin but you were not a big Paul fan like you claim to be.

I've admitted that I wanted Bogut first, D. Williams, and then Paul. As you can tell by my post count, I don't post very often, but there is no "Monday morning quarterbacking" here. Again, I wanted Bogut first, Deron Williams, and then Chris Paul. Not sure where you got the troubleman is a Chris Paul fan stuff. Even now when people I talk to mention the Hawks could have had Chris Paul, I say I preferred Deron Williams over Paul.

[Wretch]

Yep.

Click here.

...and I really am quite sick of all the Chris Paul threads. Especially by folks who beat my head over wanting to draft him (... do click on the third link in that post). There were about 3 of us on this board screaming for a PG. The rest were enamored with Bogut and slamming us for wanting to go after a franchise PG. The lurking Wretch was once a very loud Squawker, but the merry-go-rounds with inflated internet egos was a bit time consuming.

And futile.

(and just FYI, Luol Deng and Brandon Roy were my picks as well )