21-10 who believed?

[gsuteke]

I spent 14 hours (that wasn't a typo) at Disneyland today. I see the Hawks have won yet another game.

I ask myself, do you believe?

I didn't see the Denver game. I did see someone at the Park today wearing a Nuggets T-shirt and I said "How bout them Atlanta Hawks?!?!"

I didn't see tonight's game. All I saw was the Hawks beat Indy by a 10 or so point margin. I didn't check the box score.

I don't know how Joe Johnson shot the basketball. I don't know if Marvin showed up. I don't know if Smoove fell in love with the long range J. I don't know if Woodson played the starters for 35+ minutes on average.

All I know is the Hawks won another basketball game.

21-10.

I'm not suggesting Joe Johnson will turn a basketball into a horse and carriage.

21-10

Think about where you were 2 years ago when we were praying for rain in the form of Al Horford and not giving up that pick to the Suns on lotto night.

We dedicated an entire page of threads to that subject.

21-10

WOW

Joe Johnson/Mike Bibby/Josh Smith - Matt Ryan/Michael Turner/Roddy White

Getting the job done.

Appreciate it, god knows we deserve it as Atlanta Sports fans.

Edited December 31, 2008 by gsuteke

[Diesel]

I spent 14 hours (that wasn't a typo) at Disneyland today. I see the Hawks have won yet another game.

I ask myself, do you believe?

I didn't see the Denver game. I did see someone at the Park today wearing a Nuggets T-shirt and I said "How bout them Atlanta Hawks?!?!"

I didn't see tonight's game. All I saw was the Hawks beat Indy by a 10 or so point margin. I didn't check the box score.

I don't know how Joe Johnson shot the basketball. I don't know if Marvin showed up. I don't know if Smoove fell in love with the long range J. I don't know if Woodson played the starters for 35+ minutes on average.

All I know is the Hawks won another basketball game.

21-10.

I'm not suggesting Joe Johnson will turn a basketball into a horse and carriage.

21-10

Think about where you were 2 years ago when we were praying for rain in the form of Al Horford and not giving up that pick to the Suns on lotto night.

We dedicated an entire page of threads to that subject.

21-10

WOW

Joe Johnson/Mike Bibby/Josh Smith - Matt Ryan/Michael Turner/Roddy White

Getting the job done.

Appreciate it, god knows we deserve it as Atlanta Sports fans.

Quick recap... Diesel's version.

Sloppy game.

Jeff Foster Battling the refs gave us about 10 points in the third/fourth.

Zaza has been playing his butt off.

I won't say anything about Marvin.

The fourth quarter was better played.

Denier started hitting big shots on us.

Jarrett Jack ate us alive every time he touched the ball?!?!!

Josh Smith almost lost us the game.... Shooting ill advised threes and missing free. throws.

Josh saved the game by making one of the best decisions he has made as a basketball player... On a drive, he kicks out to Joe... Joe drained the three pointer with about less than a minute left.

Jarrett Jack once again proved that if a guard can drive, he will kill our interior defense. We need to do something. Jarrett Jack looked like Lebron out there.

The Pacer broadcast were funny as they talked about how good our defense was. They referred to it as Tarkanian like... the Amoeba. For those of you who are old enough to remember, our defense looks nothing like the Amoeba. More like a matchup zone. Our defense depends on how our guys are feeling. It was one stretch in the third where our guys were chasing down everybody. However, there are other stretches when our guys don't get over. The Pacers had the shot from the corner all night because somebody (Joe) wouldn't rotate out there. Pacers just couldn't convert.

[Plainview1981]

Quick recap... Diesel's version.

Sloppy game.

Jeff Foster Battling the refs gave us about 10 points in the third/fourth.

Zaza has been playing his butt off.

I won't say anything about Marvin.

The fourth quarter was better played.

Denier started hitting big shots on us.

Jarrett Jack ate us alive every time he touched the ball?!?!!

Josh Smith almost lost us the game.... Shooting ill advised threes and missing free. throws.

Josh saved the game by making one of the best decisions he has made as a basketball player... On a drive, he kicks out to Joe... Joe drained the three pointer with about less than a minute left.

Jarrett Jack once again proved that if a guard can drive, he will kill our interior defense. We need to do something. Jarrett Jack looked like Lebron out there.

The Pacer broadcast were funny as they talked about how good our defense was. They referred to it as Tarkanian like... the Amoeba. For those of you who are old enough to remember, our defense looks nothing like the Amoeba. More like a matchup zone. Our defense depends on how our guys are feeling. It was one stretch in the third where our guys were chasing down everybody. However, there are other stretches when our guys don't get over. The Pacers had the shot from the corner all night because somebody (Joe) wouldn't rotate out there. Pacers just couldn't convert.

Carter and Harris are going to have a field day Friday. It could be another ugly game.

[DrReality]

We made an adjustment at half to go inside more and that helped. Opened up the court. Smoove played well inside, hit some mid range shots and took one ? three pointer.

[frosgrim]

Carter and Harris are going to have a field day Friday. It could be another ugly game.

Zaza or Solo or Morris can fix this by putting Harris on his butt every time he drives the lane. Since Acie obviously can't play basketball (tic) the only other option is to just punish guards as the drive. Put them on the line, but don't give them easy layups. After a half of getting knocked down those layups will get less frequent.

[uga2006]

Carter and Harris are going to have a field day Friday. It could be another ugly game.

Are you even a Hawks fan or just a troll? I've never seen you say one positive thing about this team. Maybe you just forgot to take your meds and your a deeply depressed person. Which is it?

[TroyMcClure]

Are you even a Hawks fan or just a troll? I've never seen you say one positive thing about this team. Maybe you just forgot to take your meds and your a deeply depressed person. Which is it?

So, you've been a member for 6 + years and this is the first you've heard of Hotlanta's attitude? You call him a troll, yet you never post and felt the need to do so over... what exactly? Seriously, that's like the 1,000th "hotlanta is a troll" post. It's really lame. Focus on what he says, not what you think you know about what he's thinking.

[TroyMcClure]

To answer your question, teke: No, I did not believe they could win so often. Still don't to some extent. It's a long season. But it's nice to be playing this competently.

[SmooveTheFuture]

i sure did i had a prob pet of hawks over 36 wins for 500 dollars woo

[uga2006]

So, you've been a member for 6 + years and this is the first you've heard of Hotlanta's attitude? You call him a troll, yet you never post and felt the need to do so over... what exactly? Seriously, that's like the 1,000th "hotlanta is a troll" post. It's really lame. Focus on what he says, not what you think you know about what he's thinking.

I think the 6+ years shows i'm a true Hawk fan. I was a fan when we had Smitty,Blaylock and Deke and I was a fan when we had JT and a bunch of trash. Just because i'm not on the computer 24/7 means what exactly??

[tonegully]

The Hawks started off VERY cold early from 3.

The Hawks Js were not falling in the 1st half. Shot under 50 percent in the 1st half and somehow was still ahead.

Zaza played great ball in the 1st half, even took his man off the dribble and was hitting the open J. Never saw him again in the second half.

I have to agree with D, JJ was playing some lazy d at times

Smoove was awsome besides going 0-2 from 3.(why smoove, why!!!)Got to the line over 10 times(thats what happens when you play in the paint Josh)

Bibby cant stop Jack

Horf and Marv was very scrappy in the second half

Granger was beast in the 1st half

Pulled out a great win. The Pacers are a tough team like have over 6 losses by 4pts or less. So this isnt the Thunder.

[WraithSentinel]

Hawks don't make some of these games easy. They still have many of the same flaws we have griped about for awhile. Difference is now they are winning. It is ugly at times and pretty at times. Winning is always beautiful everytime.

Do I believe in they are as good as their record? Yes, I do believe. I will not be satisfy though. While we may gripe after each win and think the world is ending after each loss. I think the majority here are happy about where the Hawks are right now.

[mrhonline]

The Hawks are already at 60% of the win total I had them down for through only 38% of the season.

I'm an idiot, no doubt.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's just nice to watch this team, and feel that even if we are down, we'll still have a good shot to win. The Hawks are doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. You take care of your homecourt, and you battle on the road, hoping you can win 50% - 65% of those games.

When we were a bad team, we tended to play somewhat well at home . . even against "good" teams. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, we should always expect the weaker teams to battle us on their home court. We may not beat the elite teams on the road, but we can beat the average to below average teams on the road consistently. In the grand scheme of things, that's exactly what you have to do, to become a good team.

Saturday will be interesting. Rockets come to town. If we lose, people will be griping again. ( even though we still may be 22 - 11 ).

But if we win . . . . the comments should be interesting.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And no . . . I didn't believe they could be 21 - 10 right now. I did believe that they had a shot at winning 50 games if they really took care of their homecourt. ( I think I said 47 wins before the season started )

It's important for us to take care of the homecourt, and for the crowd to go out and support the Hawks to make that home court advantage even greater.

[TheFormerJJBacker]

(Prefacing this with an apology for the length)

I'm typically not one to assume I know what another's intentions were... likewise, I'm not a huge fan of putting words into someone's mouth...

but...

I think the point of the original post was not to get a summary of the game... or a recap... or what went right or wrong... I think (and apologies to teke if I read this wrong) the point was:

"Big picture - let's focus on the fact that the Atlanta Hawks are 21-10 right now. I don't know what happened over the last two games. I don't know who did what to whom. I don't know who made certain mistakes or who choked, or who took a bad three... I just know we won. And we've won 21 times this season before January - and as much as we all might get real wrapped up in each minute of each game... the fact we're winning is what is most important. And not finding the negatives to point out (because there will always be negatives) isn't actually a bad thing."

I don't post much on here because I think (and no offense to anyone) the moods on this thing are roller coaster. I also think there's much more time focusing on the negatives than the positives. I check in multiple times a day to just get a feel for things, but I rarely post. It's too negative. We have 8+ pages devoted to a "Joe choked" thread after a loss to Boston, yet not one post devoted to "Joe had a triple double" or "Joe just went for 41" or "Joe just outplayed Melo" or "Joe carried us in the 4th quarter - and his clinching 3 WAS MONEY (in particular the walking down the court with hand up)."

(Sidenote: Did anyone notice the following Friday - just two nights after Joe's infamous miss - DWade missed a free throw in the final seconds that could have extened the Heat's lead and Kobe missed the jumper that would have tied it. Given - a free throw is easier than a fall-away jumper with Shawn Marion all over you... but just saying. Also - no one points out Joe hit two of two with like 45 seconds to go in the game. And did anyone in Portland do the choke thing last night when Paul Pierce missed a free throw in the 4th quarter as his Celtics were trying to avoid a three-game losing streak? I guess my point is - everybody misses. Joe's hit plenty of buckets in the clutch... no reason to think he won't continue to hit big buckets. He just yipped on that night.. that's it.)

I get to read about "I don't understand Josh Smith" or "Josh Smith needs to STOP shooting 3s" or "Our interior defense is atrocious" instead of "Josh Smith doing well despite injury" or "give smoove some credit for playing hurt"...

Now, before I get killed for being "too positive" I'll tell you I'm plenty negative, too. But at the end of the day - we're 21-10.

On Jan 1 - here's what we're historically looking at:

2000 - 11 - 18

2001 - 10 - 20

2002 - 11 - 19

2003 - 12 - 18

2004 - 9 - 24

2005 - 5 - 23

2006 - 7 - 21 (Joe's first season with Hawks)

2007 - 9 - 20

2008 - 15 - 13

2009 - 21 - 10

I mean - seriously? Why all the hate?

Do I think Woody is a great coach? Nope

Do I think Joe is as good as LeBron? Nope

Do I think Smoove makes some bad decisions fairly regularly? Yup

Do I think Bibby is a terrible defender? Yup

Do I think Marvin should be better than he is? Yup

Do I think the Hawks struggle with teams they ought not struggle with? Sure.

However - (sarcasm alert) despite our idiot coach, our crappy all-star who chokes and isn't good enough to be a "real" superstar, our idiot SF/PF who consistently makes bad decisions, our bust SF/PF that isn't Chris Paul, our PG that can't D up a chair, and our teams inability to blow out crappy teams because they play down to the level of their competition.... WE'RE 21-10!!!

1) I think coaches in the NBA are over-rated. If you've got good players, your team will likely be good. If you've got crappy players, your team will be crappy. Coaches make their mark in close games in April, May and most notably JUNE. The rest of the time - the coach is only as good as his players.

2) I’ve said this for a almost two years now - Joe's not LeBron, DWade (when healthy), Kobe... but he's pretty much better than all of the other swingmen 2/3 combo's in the League. When the Hawks signed him (in 05) - he got a contract smaller than the Supersonics gave Ray Allen to stay in Seattle and the Bucks gave Michael Redd to stay in Milwaukee. The Cavs signed Larry Hughes away from Washington to the same contract Joe got from Atlanta to leave (via sign-and-trade) Phoenix. Do you think the Thunder (or Celtics because that's where Ray is now), Bucks or Cavs (or Bulls because that's where Hughes is now) wouldn't take Joe Johnson even up for what they've got? Other than the following teams (and I'm being generous for the haters) -

Miami (Wade)

LA Lakers (Bryant)

Portland (Roy - I have more of a problem that we took S. Williams than I do that we took M. Williams, btw)

Cleveland (James)

Washington (Butler)

Indiana (Granger)

Boston (Pierce)

Oklahoma City (Durant)

- any other team would trade their best "swingman" player in a heartbeat even up for Joe Johnson. I personally think Wade (when healthy), Bryant and James are on a different level than everybody else at the 2/3. I'd take Joe over Roy, Butler, Granger, Pierce and Durant... but I included those players because if I was a fan of the Blazers, Wizards, Pacers, Celtics, or Thunder I'd probably have some difficulty trading "my guy" for Joe Johnson. But being on this side - if the Hawks traded Joe for Butler even up - I would be outraged. Roy I can see (but his injury problems worry me). Durant would make sense in terms of age - but I'm not as blown away by KD as others are... Granger's nice... but I'd say he's at now where Joe was at in 2006... and I'm not sure if Granger would ever be better than Joe. Pierce was huge last year in the playoffs and he's definitely got game... but I take Joe over him.

So what are we looking at with Joe? Possibly the 4th best swingman behind Wade, Kobe and LBJ? I'll take that.

3) Josh is irritating... but he's young. I wish he'd dribble less, shoot less, try and pass less, etc. I said it over a year ago - the sooner he realizes he's a bigger, buffer version of Shawn Marion - the better. But I'm willing to be patient. And we extended him on the cheap (thanks Memphis) for what he can become.

4) Bibby’s never been a good defender. But he hits clutch buckets.

5) Marvin’s developing slower than I'd like, but he still shows flashes. He might not ever be worth the 2nd pick in the draft... but going into the 05 draft the big debate was Williams vs. Bogut for the #1 slot. The Hawks were going to take whomever the Bucks didn't take. And... at the time of the draft - we didn't have Joe Johnson. Had the draft occurred in August of 05 (after Joe was signed) I'm willing to wager BK would have taken Paul or Williams. But the prevailing wisdom in June was that the Suns would take care of Joe (especially after the draft night deal in which the Suns sent Q Rich and the rights to Nate Robinson to the Knicks for Kurt Thomas... freeing up money for Joe).

The bottom line for me? All teams have flaws. Heck, the Celtics lost to the Warriors! And the Blazers (playing without BROY)! We've beaten the Cavs. We struggled in Texas (a lot of teams do). We've beaten the Pistons. We've beaten the Nuggets. We're much better at home than we are on the road (lots of young teams are). We occasionally play down to inferior teams (lots of teams do). Our best player occasionally throws up some stinkers (he's still better than a vast majority of other players that play the same positions, and plenty of good players have crappy nights)... we're 21-10. Be happy.

I guess I liked teke's post because I thought it provided a little "take a step back guys" type vibe (and a little levity goes a long way around here)... and the thread turned into a critical summary of a game we just won. One in which I read positives about Diener and Jack, got backhanded compliments for Smoove, heard that Harris and Carter will torch us, etc. WTF? Keep game summaries in the game summary thread. Resist the urge to post negative garbage in response to a thread that basically just said, "hey I didn't get to see the game... I didn't get to get distracted by all the negativity... I didn't get frustrated at the TV... I just saw we won... and we're 21-10 now.. and that's pretty cool."

My reply to teke's lovely post -

you're right, teke. It's pretty cool. Happy 2009 everybody... the future is looking up.

[hawkman]

The above post needs to be stickied. It is truly the post of the year.

[f_town]

sure Jack owned Bibby for a minute there, but man were those some circus shots...that last one off the high glass was freaking ridiculous :p

[mrhonline]

Golly, JJBacker, you just stuffed 15 posts into one.

You can now take a three-year hiatus. :)

Terrific post.

[Gray Mule]

Sure. Hawks made some bad plays. They do every game. So does our opponent,

no matter who we're playing. It's part of being human. Everyone makes mistakes.

About Josh & his 3 point shooting. I believe he tried 2 last night, missing both. His

shooting % from there is somewhere in the 20's. One of those 2 shots was taken

with the clock draining. It was either shoot or have a clock violation. Glad he took

the shot.

Now, to answer the question, I said, before the season began, if I recall correctly,

Hawks should be over .500 by season's end. Since we play 82 games, anything

above 41 wins qualifies. Hawks have 53 chances now to win more than 20 games

to reach THAT projection.

Am I suprised? You bet! Am I happy so far? Yes! Are we better than I first thought?

Obviously.

:thumbsupsmileyanim: