Lets talk about Marvin

[benhillboy]

I can't front like I'm a Marvin Fan. Started warming up to him this year only because he has clearly taking a liking to working with Mark Price overtime and has shown favor for throwing his body into anyone to get to the line, most impressively against the Shaqs and Howards of the world. While not his fault, I will always think of what could have been with Paul. Spilled milk, though. The bright side is that he's still very young and I think he is around 80% of optimum performance, both physically and mentally.

With that said, Marvin simply needs as many oppurtunites as possible to be physical and use his backside as a buffer. Those oppurtunities are considerably decreased with Joe dominating the ball, point-blank. I'm sure fans of Joe are tired of my bull, but I feel strongly that Joe ultimately detracts more than he adds to this team, despite his gaudy totals and good efficiency. Can Woody and his staff come up with better motion and more pick-and-roll options? Of course, as they deserve much more "blame" for the Hawks' offensive shortcomings than Joe. While far from perfect players, Bibby and Flip are more polished and show a better feel for the game and their abilities at the guard position than Joe. If Flip takes 2 awful threes out of rhythm, he will bust his butt to force a foul at the hole. Joe won't. His next shot is a fade-away. If Bibby and Al screw up a connection, Bibby will implore the squad to keep moving the ball and move without it. Joe just says "My bad." Our young front line simply will not progress until our #1 option is as aggressive as they are in terms of drawing fouls, showing emotion, finishing strong at the rack, and passing for balanced, optimum shooting.

[Cwell]

I hope the offense keeps playing well while JJ is out. It is pretty clear that JJ is dribbling and shooting too much. JJ is my man but i would like to see the ball in his hands less often.

that's because of Woody,not Joe

[AtLaS]

I think the difference is coming from how we define slasher. For me, a slasher is a guy that has the handles to put the ball on the floor and get to the hole from the permiter. Smith is not good at that. He has bad ball handling skills and no cross over to speak of. What Smith can do is go from the free throw line and throw it down (however, Smith's small hands keep him from dunking as much as he could if he could palm the ball).

Marvin has handles. Marvin does have some dribble moves that seem to work for him. Does he need to improve those? Yes, but the skill-set is there.

In terms of the and 1 issue. Its useless if you can't hit your FTs, ala Smith right now.

Hence my evaluation is that Marvin is the better slasher than Smith. That might not fit your definition, which is fine, but I wanted to spell out my "logic".

I see your point, but I don't agree with it. Marvin has handles? Marvin is better at driving from the outside? That's just not true. When Smith takes it to the basket he is extremely effective. He is a straight line driver, not fancy with it. It's the same with Marvin, Marvin will catch the ball and pump fake and pivot around on his foot and then either take the shot or drive to the basket. Neither Marvin nor Smith have handles.

[Diesel]

First of all Brian Cook plays on the Heat. Secondly Marvin didn't get to the line 14 times by being left open all night.

MY Bad... Brian Cardinal. You know stiff 6'9 guy who doesn't really play defense so well but makes a load of money? Jerry West' favorite.

[Diesel]

B.S!!!. You sure you watched the game last night.

Marvin was very aggressive last night. I even pointed that out in the chat last night. That last 3 Bibby hit, was because of Marvin. Marvin went straight to the post and demanded the ball. Then kicked it out to Bibby for the 3.

Marv played excellent last night.

Uhm... Where in my post did I say Marvin didn't do well?

I said Marvin is supposed to play hard every night and I'm tired of hearing excuses for why Marvin doesn't.

[frosgrim]

I see your point, but I don't agree with it. Marvin has handles? Marvin is better at driving from the outside? That's just not true. When Smith takes it to the basket he is extremely effective. He is a straight line driver, not fancy with it. It's the same with Marvin, Marvin will catch the ball and pump fake and pivot around on his foot and then either take the shot or drive to the basket. Neither Marvin nor Smith have handles.

Dude, Smith dribbles off his foot and thigh too much to be considered a slasher. Marvin does have a wide-stance, cross-over that he use every so often. Marvin is significantly better ball handler than Smith.

Is Marvin in the same area code as guys like James and Kobe? No way. Marvin isn't in the same area as JJ, but he's a lot better than Smith. Again, Marvin can and does come in off the perimeter with effect. When Smith does it, he tends to turn the ball over. When Smith only has to take a single dribble then he's very effective, more than that and its turn-over city.

[AtLaS]

Dude, Smith dribbles off his foot and thigh too much to be considered a slasher. Marvin does have a wide-stance, cross-over that he use every so often. Marvin is significantly better ball handler than Smith.

Is Marvin in the same area code as guys like James and Kobe? No way. Marvin isn't in the same area as JJ, but he's a lot better than Smith. Again, Marvin can and does come in off the perimeter with effect. When Smith does it, he tends to turn the ball over. When Smith only has to take a single dribble then he's very effective, more than that and its turn-over city.

Your definition of slashing must be dancing around the perimeter dribbling and then eventually taking it to the rack. That shouldn't be the definition. Slashing is taking the ball to the rim without posting up, whether it's one dribble or not.

Regardless, when has Marvin ever crossed someone over? I'd love to see that.

Smith can get to the rim from the perimeter in a single dribble. That's slashing. When he catches the ball and squares up, the defender gets up on him and he blows by them. He does that very often with a great effectiveness. Sure, he dribbles off his foot sometimes but more often than not he is successful taking it to the rack.

[Atlantaholic]

Marvin's TS% of 58.1% is the highest on the team so clearly he should be getting more shots.

Marvin is easily having his best season... His numbers may not be all that different from last year but the impact he has had on the game has definitely been superior.

Marvin is definitely a very good slasher, and if he put his mind to it he probably could be a great one. For his size he is extremely quick. Sure, he doesn't really have the smoothness to his game of a JJ, kobe, Vince etc... but with his height, reach, and speed, he doesn't really need it... when he decides to pump fake, jab step and go, there is virtually no defender in the NBA that can stop him from getting to the rack. It doesn't really matter if he can finish with contact or not because he (unlike Smith) is a very good foul shooter... If he got more opportunities there is no reason he could not average 8 or 9 free throws a game... Throw in his improved three point range and you've got yourself a very good scorer... the 18 points he has been averaging in the last 6 or 7 games are something he could definitely average throughout a season if he simply maintain a high level of aggression.

[Popeye]

I think Smoove is a better slasher, but not a better dribbler. It's weird!

Smoove turns it over the most when he is dribbling in the open court, but when he puts his head down and goes straight to the hole from top of the key he is very effective. He knows how to avoid people also and than finish at the rim.

Marvin is quicker, but he goes too fast and loses control when he gets close to the rim. He is not a great finisher and tends to go into people. That's why he draws a lot of fouls, but also commits charges.

I think we can agree on this Atlas and Frosgrim.

[exodus]

MY Bad... Brian Cardinal. You know stiff 6'9 guy who doesn't really play defense so well but makes a load of money? Jerry West' favorite.

Cardinal played only 12 minutes and was guarding Smith at times.

[macdaddy]

Part of it is our offense. Its the Pistons that Woody knows with a little less talent:

Billups=Bibby

Rip=JJ

Prince=Marvin

Smoove=Sheed

Horford=Wallace

Our offense does work sometimes even though I don't really like it. I would think we could better utilize both Marvin and Smoove which would not only get Marvin more points but open up JJ a lot.

[mrhonline]

29 FT's made in two games for Marvin.

Pretty impressive.

[frankthetank966]

I just wish Marvin could play like this when JJ comes back!

[tonegully]

Marvin is beasting. Woody give this man the ball. He attacks the basket and hits his FTs.

[JackB1]

Marvin's drives to the basket this year are SO MUCH BETTER than previous year's. He doesn't look as awkward as he used to and looks much more confident. If I were Woody, I would expect 20/10 from him on a nightly basis. Challenge him!

[DrReality]

The Bobcats game shows what he can do when they run some offense through him. He needs to get more touches.

[tonegully]

and he hits his freethrows.

[AtLaS]

Marvin has been playing extremely well. Props to him.

[uga2006]

Marvin CAN NOT BE STOPPED and thats the bottomline.

Cause stone cold said so.

Sorry man I just felt compelled to do it.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Last night confirmed what we were talking about a few days ago, it's ridiculous that Marvin Williams takes so many few shots a game.

He's too good a shooter and too good a free throw shooter not to.

Even on an off night from the field, he was incredibly efficient from the field. And he looked exceptionally well being a slasher in this game. Not nearly as awkward as he's looked in the past. What I think Marvin Williams is doing is gaining confidence. He could take every player on that Bobcats team off the dribble.

He needs to have that confidence in every game.

No, Marvin's not going to get to the line like that every game or have that many combined attempts, but again he should have by far more than 15 combined field goal and free throw attempts per game. It's absolutely ridiculous that he doesn't. That's why Coach Woodson has to preach until he's blue in the face for Marvin to be more aggressive.

The way Woody benches Smoove for chucking shots, is the way he should bench Marvin for not taking shots

Edited February 7, 2009 by BusBoyIsBack