The Amare for Smith rumors seem to be heating up according to ESPN!

[TheTruth]

The new rumored deal has us wanting Robin Lopez included in the deal. Will that help to put us over the top in your opinion?

[exodus]

i think whats getting lost in this whole thing is that whether we trade for Amare or we keep Smith and even if we keep Bibby, we aren't going to beat Orlando, Cleveland, and a healthy Boston (maybe them actually). That isn't a championship team.

The Hawks will never be a championship team with JJ as the best player. Stars win titles and Amare is a bigger star than JJ.

If the Hawks land Amare then i would go all out to get Gortat. Horford won't work playing next to Amare but Gortat would be the perfect guy to play next to him.

[Explicit]

i think whats getting lost in this whole thing is that whether we trade for Amare or we keep Smith and even if we keep Bibby, we aren't going to beat Orlando, Cleveland, and a healthy Boston (maybe them actually). That isn't a championship team. So if you make a deal, you would have to do so knowing that the risk you take won't be well-timed unless you pick someone else up or keep Amare long enough to pick someone else up later. So if you aren't going to not only grab Amare but also get another player to cover a weakness (perimeter defense for example), then you are making the trade (and risk of Smith blowing up) for nothing.

If you make this trade Sund, you must be sure A)you think this team can compete for the championship(it probably cannot) or B) go get another player in addition to Amare that can get us over the top.

Funny thing is last night I was thinking about the Stoudemire to GS rumors and I thought, "Smith and Crawford to Phoenix might work well." It gets Phoenix back closer to it's run and gun style that they were successful with before Shaq and it also gives them some flexibility with the Crawford contract I do believe.

I would prefer to not have to give up Smith but as the old saying goes, "to get something you have to give something." Just trying to make myself feel better about alternatives though I would certainly give up Marvin, Childress and next years draft (unprotected if needed) to get the deal done.

The bad part of the deal either way though is that it's probably going to leave us pretty thing past the starting five. I don't see how we can have much money left over if we get Stoudemire if we go with the latter trade.

Wouldn't say that it's not a championship team however.

[frankthetank966]

We've gotten fixated on Amare for a big and I think there are other real bigs that would do what we need. I'd love to see us keep Josh and move Marvin for a big.

I think your dead on! I love Smith. I am one of his biggest fans. Although he may make some bonehead plays at some points of just about every game and this becomes frustrating I still think he is one of the most passionate players on this team and most of his moves come from his best interest to help this team win. I think he is so passionate that he becomes upset with his teammates and coach at times. He was by far one of our most exciting players to watch during the playoffs...

However, I would definitely like Amare. His only concern are his injuries. But he is a better overall player than Smoove. I think if we made a package of Williams and a future pick we may be able to land Amare.

[MaceCase]

The Hawks will never be a championship team with JJ as the best player. Stars win titles and Amare is a bigger star than JJ.

If the Hawks land Amare then i would go all out to get Gortat. Horford won't work playing next to Amare but Gortat would be the perfect guy to play next to him.

Sund is already very much on record saying that he views Horf as a starting Center and has the ability to be an allstar at that. I doubt he has any intentions of replacing Horf in that capacity and part of the reason I believe Lopez is being included in the deal is to have that legit 7footer on the bench as a reserve to battle taller lineups. If all this is true then I believe Zaza is a casuality or has already given indication that he has recieved better offers elsewhere thus why we are pursuing Lopez in addition to Stat. I still have trepidation over this deal mainly because I'm not sure how it would affect free agency. But if we solve our PG question and what we do with Marvin/backup SF then our only hole is a good back up PF, of which there are many cheap options, and take a flyer on an unproven 7foot stiff to be our 5th big on the bench and this team would be fully retooled and in contention for an ECF.

[exodus]

Sund is already very much on record saying that he views Horf as a starting Center and has the ability to be an allstar at that.

What do you expect him to say, that Horford is too small to play center? It doesn't make sense to publicly throw one of his players under the bus like that.

[DJlaysitup]

The Hawks will never be a championship team with JJ as the best player. Stars win titles and Amare is a bigger star than JJ.

Well lets be a little realistic and watch. Are the Hawks EVER going to win the NBA Championship? Doubtful unless Belkin gets the team. Otherwise we are players and who knows? :blow out candles:

[exodus]

Well lets be a little realistic and watch. Are the Hawks EVER going to win the NBA Championship? Doubtful unless Belkin gets the team. Otherwise we are players and who knows? :blow out candles:

Even in the unlikely event that Belkin did get control he would just sell for a profit and run. This was nothing but a money making venture for him.

[MaceCase]

What do you expect him to say, that Horford is too small to play center? It doesn't make sense to publicly throw one of his players under the bus like that.

there is throwing your player under the bus and then there is constantly touting his abilities. Yea I understand your point but even if you don't feel a player is an adequate fit at a position you do not go out of your way to tout him as an allstar to smokescreen your true feelings. You simply say he has done well considering or that you are looking to find him help. Sund could care less how tall Horf is it's his skillset that he touts making him better fitted to the Center position. Adding Amar'e to our frontline already makes our average height and weight 1 inch taller and 10 pounds heavier not to mention more skilled and athletic than any other frontline.

I mean by God is height overrated, Boston won a chip with a guy who's 6'11" and 230lbs at most and 6'10" center and when Perk went to the bench they brought out guys no taller than 6'8". Orlando made it to the championship with a 6'10" center and a bunch of SFs. It's not size that wins games it's skill.

[exodus]

there is throwing your player under the bus and then there is constantly touting his abilities. Yea I understand your point but even if you don't feel a player is an adequate fit at a position you do not go out of your way to tout him as an allstar to smokescreen your true feelings. You simply say he has done well considering or that you are looking to find him help. Sund could care less how tall Horf is it's his skillset that he touts making him better fitted to the Center position. Adding Amar'e to our frontline already makes our average height and weight 1 inch taller and 10 pounds heavier not to mention more skilled and athletic than any other frontline.

Sund was just talking up Acie not long ago before he shipped him out.

I mean by God is height overrated, Boston won a chip with a guy who's 6'11" and 230lbs at most and 6'10" center and when Perk went to the bench they brought out guys no taller than 6'8".

Perkins is listed at 280. Both he and Garnett are longer than anyone on our roster. Garnett measured 6'11" without shoes which is a full 2.25" taller than Horford.

click

Howard is 260 and his standing reach is almost 5" higher than Horford.

In case you didn't notice the Lakers just won the title starting 2 seven footers.

Edited June 28, 2009 by exodus

[MaceCase]

Exodus I don't know what you are arguing. Sund never talked up Acie like he's talked up Horf, he never even stated that the kid should get minutes even, he just said yea "I likED him COMING out" but he never said at what pick and then went n to talk about how he knew he wouldn't get minutes behind Bibby and Flip. That is a huge difference between saying he would of and will conti ue to be in consideration for an allstar bid.

You didn't address Boston running out Leon Powe, PJ Brown, Big Baby and even at times James Posey as their frontline during their championship run, none taller than 6'9" . You didn't mention Howard going through taller defenders than him in Dalembert and Big Z before running into Gasol who gives up atleast 20pounds to him. And after all that is said why would you argue trading a 6'9" 240lb forward for a 6'10" 250lb F/C and a 7footer?

[GameTime]

Switch Robin Lopez with Louis Amundson and get the deal done Sund.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

No, Atlanta not keeping Marvin from what I heard but Horford is damn near untouchable. Every team has called Atlanta about him and they declined. Marvin has some good promises from what I heard. You guys will be shocked when you see what teams offer for Marvin. A lot of teams like Marvin.

EDIT: Not every team but you know what I mean.

Damn . . I haven't watched Sportscenter since Friday afternoon, so I missed all of this talk. And I'm still reading this thread. But I will respond to this particular post, before giving my take on this situation.

If the Hawks don't re-sign Marvin, I think he'll be a Detroit Piston next year. And I think Marvin could easily get a 5 year - 42 to 48 million dollar deal from a team. I think the Pistons may try to move Tayshawn Prince to a veteran team that needs a defender at the 3, in order to make this happen.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

but that would also open up major cap space for us to be players that year as well. There is so much uncertainty with there possibly being a lockout in 2011 that a move like this is basically a move to try and get to the finals and a chance to play for a ship next season and then if one or both walk we retool .One of the worst things a franchise can do is be afraid to go for it all . I look at this like the Bulls situation of 05-07 . They made the first rd one year and then the semifinals the second year. Everyone thought they would go hard after KG(who they couldve gotten) but instead decided to use cap to get Ben Wallace because that wouldnt require giving up any of there young players . Now today Hinrich on the block ,Gordon may walk for nothing ,Deng is a 71 million dollar bust ,and Ben Wallace was one of the worst signings in a long while .

At a certain point Sund has to decide how far does he think we can get with our current group. I listened to his interview on the radio and he said that we had to try and catch the teams in front of us while staying ahead of the team behind us and the gap for the teams in front of us is much larger. If we want to compete for titles then we have to consider acquiring an Amare or a Bosh.This window of opportunity wont be open forever .

Excellent post.

(( still reading this thread. On page 6 right now ))

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Why would Joe Johnson leave? When has he given indication that he has an ego like Lebron? And what bigger market would he move to? Joe moved to Atlanta because he thought he could be a 1a on a contending team. Why would he give up on that dream?

As solid of a citizen as JJ is, you cannont overestimate the power of money in professional sports. Here's a scenario for you.

- Wade stays in Miami and LeBron stays in Cleveland, by signing extensions before the season starts.

If that happens, you now have a situation in which JJ becomes the #1 guard, and possibly one of top 3 players available in free agency in 2010.

If I'm a team like Minnesota, with a ton of rookie and expiring contracts . . I'm throwing the entire bank at one of those free agents. And because they already have Kevin Love at center and Al Jefferson at PF, who do you think they are going to target?

Joe Johnson.

And how much money do you think they'll throw at JJ?

Probably ALL OF IT.

Is JJ motivated by money? Well . . we can believe all we want that it was the desire of him wanting to be "the man" that brought him to Atlanta.

But in reality, it was the multi-million dollar balloon payment he got upfront that season, that brought him to us. Make NO MISTAKE about that.

Don't forget, he was on a championship contending team in Phoenix as well. But the dollar signs coming from Atlanta ( which was then widely regarded as the worst franchise in the NBA ), was too much to ignore. You leave a champion to go to a perennial cellar dweller? NO . . . unless someone throws a ton of money at you.

I don't know what the max contract that JJ could get next season. But whatever it is, a team like Minnesota, and now New Jersey ( since they got rid of Vince ), may pay just that.

Don't forget the Nets will be in Brooklyn by 2010. So JJ then potentially becomes the media darling of NYC.

Potential Minnesota lineup:

PG - Flynn

G - JJ

F - Brewer

PF - Jefferson

C - Love

Potential New Jersey lineup:

PG - Harris

G - Lee

F - JJ

PF - Yi

C - Lopez

LOL . . that's why I keep saying . . throw JJ a 5 yr - 90 million deal RIGHT NOW, to see if that's enough to keep him here. You'll have a few teams that will have NO PROBLEM making him one of the highest paid players in the league, once 2010 gets here.

(( still reading thread ))

[TheNorthCydeRises]

OK . . as for my take on this entire situation.

LOL

You do this trade in a HEARTBEAT. The only way you don't do it, is if Amare doesn't sign an extension . . or if you truly believe that Josh Smith is going to be better than Amare is right now, in 2 years.

If not, you HAVE to do this deal . . and don't look back.

It's been evident for a long time, that a select few of Hawk fans are more loyal to their favorite player, than they are to seeing thsi team possibly winning a title. They want to see the Hawks succeed WITH their favorite player here.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that most of the time folks.

We all like Josh Smith for the most part. But this is Amare Stoudamire we're talking about. THIS is the type of deal you move Smoove for, to give yourself a chance at a title RIGHT NOW.

Those of you who are against moving Smith for Amare, you need to be reminded of what the Celtics did by moving their young future star PF in Al Jefferson. As good as Jefferson was looking, Boston HAD to make that move, in order to get where they needed to be to become a championship caliber team.

Boston gave up almost ALL of their young pieces, to add Garnett to the Celtics.

And when Jefferson left, he blossomed into a MONSTER of a PF/C in his 2 years in Minnesota, like everyone thought he had the potential to do.

But Boston got their NBA championship.

Remember what the formula for winning a title is folks:

You need at least 2 All-Stars ( with one of them preferably being a Hall of Fame caliber player ), plus another player who is a very good player that can step up at times.

- Lakers: Bryant, Gasol, and Odom

- Celtics: Garnett, Pierce, and Allen

- Spurs: Duncan, Parker and Ginoboli

- Detroit: Billups, Hamilton, Wallace

When you look at the moves the Magic and Cavs just made:

- Magic: Howard, Carter, Nelson

- Cavalliers: Lebron, Shaq, Mo Williams

Jamal friggin Crawford doesn't make us a championship caliber team, becase he'll end up being the 2nd scoring option and shot taker on the squad . . which is NOT GOOD.

But if you add an Amare Stoudamire to the mix, to pair with JJ . . now you're talking about a situation in which a Crawford could be a HUGE 3rd option scorer who should get a ton of open looks because of the attention that JJ and Amare would draw. Or maybe Horford becomes that 3rd reliable guy, that complements JJ and Amare. Maybe even Marvin, if he's kept.

- Hawks: Amare, JJ, Crawford/Marvin/Horford

That's the reality folks.

Most important though, you now have a player that puts EXTREME PRESSURE for other frontline players to try to defend. Play Amare at center, and he uses his quickness to possibly beat people off the dribble. Play him at PF, and he shows that he's one of the best jumpshooting big men in the game.

People ragged Barkley for talking ish about JJ during the playoffs, but this is exactly what he is talking about. When he said that JJ can't be your best player, we didn't like it, but he is right. JJ is not Kobe or Lebron.

What JJ can be though, is a great 1a or 1b scorer, when teamed up with another all-star caliber player. Especially if that player pretty much plays 15 feet and in. Some nights, JJ will be the man. Other nights, he'll be the decoy. And on those nights in which he's the decoy, Amare would STRAIGHT UP KILL PEOPLE.

And if you have to ship off Teague and Smoove to get Amare . . lol . . you do that ish too . . IN A HEARTBEAT.

As much as people talk about how great Teague is, Acie was an even MORE DECORATED coming out of college as a PG. Acie was the one who was a 1st team All-American. Acie was the one who was known as "Mr. Clutch" as a PG. Acie was the one who took a virtually deceased program in Texas A&M, and turned them into a top 15 caliber program almost overnight.

Teague may have more skill than Acie, but people shouldn't act like he's a sure thing. He's FAR from sure thing.

So if you have a chance to move him for an All-Star, especially an All-Star frontline player like Amare, you do that without blinking.

It's time for the fan base to stop looking at the "potential" of players, and start looking at ways to get to the NBA Finals, to at least give us a chance to play for a world championship.

That's what the Vince Carter move to Orlando was partially about. As good as Courtney Lee and Rafer Alston were at times during the playoffs, they couldn't pass up a chance to get an All-Star caliber player in Carter, to possibly put them over the hump to win a champioship.

Damn some potential, they're playing for NOW.

[DrReality]

Curious what the all time number of views of a thread is? This is getting up there.

[Guest]

OK . . as for my take on this entire situation.

LOL

You do this trade in a HEARTBEAT. The only way you don't do it, is if Amare doesn't sign an extension . . or if you truly believe that Josh Smith is going to be better than Amare is right now, in 2 years.

If not, you HAVE to do this deal . . and don't look back.

It's been evident for a long time, that a select few of Hawk fans are more loyal to their favorite player, than they are to seeing thsi team possibly winning a title. They want to see the Hawks succeed WITH their favorite player here.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that most of the time folks.

We all like Josh Smith for the most part. But this is Amare Stoudamire we're talking about. THIS is the type of deal you move Smoove for, to give yourself a chance at a title RIGHT NOW.

Those of you who are against moving Smith for Amare, you need to be reminded of what the Celtics did by moving their young future star PF in Al Jefferson. As good as Jefferson was looking, Boston HAD to make that move, in order to get where they needed to be to become a championship caliber team.

Boston gave up almost ALL of their young pieces, to add Garnett to the Celtics.

And when Jefferson left, he blossomed into a MONSTER of a PF/C in his 2 years in Minnesota, like everyone thought he had the potential to do.

But Boston got their NBA championship.

Remember what the formula for winning a title is folks:

You need at least 2 All-Stars ( with one of them preferably being a Hall of Fame caliber player ), plus another player who is a very good player that can step up at times.

- Lakers: Bryant, Gasol, and Odom

- Celtics: Garnett, Pierce, and Allen

- Spurs: Duncan, Parker and Ginoboli

- Detroit: Billups, Hamilton, Wallace

When you look at the moves the Magic and Cavs just made:

- Magic: Howard, Carter, Nelson

- Cavalliers: Lebron, Shaq, Mo Williams

Jamal friggin Crawford doesn't make us a championship caliber team, becase he'll end up being the 2nd scoring option and shot taker on the squad . . which is NOT GOOD.

But if you add an Amare Stoudamire to the mix, to pair with JJ . . now you're talking about a situation in which a Crawford could be a HUGE 3rd option scorer who should get a ton of open looks because of the attention that JJ and Amare would draw. Or maybe Horford becomes that 3rd reliable guy, that complements JJ and Amare. Maybe even Marvin, if he's kept.

- Hawks: Amare, JJ, Crawford/Marvin/Horford

That's the reality folks.

Most important though, you now have a player that puts EXTREME PRESSURE for other frontline players to try to defend. Play Amare at center, and he uses his quickness to possibly beat people off the dribble. Play him at PF, and he shows that he's one of the best jumpshooting big men in the game.

People ragged Barkley for talking ish about JJ during the playoffs, but this is exactly what he is talking about. When he said that JJ can't be your best player, we didn't like it, but he is right. JJ is not Kobe or Lebron.

What JJ can be though, is a great 1a or 1b scorer, when teamed up with another all-star caliber player. Especially if that player pretty much plays 15 feet and in. Some nights, JJ will be the man. Other nights, he'll be the decoy. And on those nights in which he's the decoy, Amare would STRAIGHT UP KILL PEOPLE.

And if you have to ship off Teague and Smoove to get Amare . . lol . . you do that ish too . . IN A HEARTBEAT.

As much as people talk about how great Teague is, Acie was an even MORE DECORATED coming out of college as a PG. Acie was the one who was a 1st team All-American. Acie was the one who was known as "Mr. Clutch" as a PG. Acie was the one who took a virtually deceased program in Texas A&M, and turned them into a top 15 caliber program almost overnight.

Teague may have more skill than Acie, but people shouldn't act like he's a sure thing. He's FAR from sure thing.

So if you have a chance to move him for an All-Star, especially an All-Star frontline player like Amare, you do that without blinking.

It's time for the fan base to stop looking at the "potential" of players, and start looking at ways to get to the NBA Finals, to at least give us a chance to play for a world championship.

That's what the Vince Carter move to Orlando was partially about. As good as Courtney Lee and Rafer Alston were at times during the playoffs, they couldn't pass up a chance to get an All-Star caliber player in Carter, to possibly put them over the hump to win a champioship.

Damn some potential, they're playing for NOW.

I disagree about moving Teague in a deal for Amare....no way you do that. I mean the Suns are in the weaker position right now, they don't have any leverage. No Teague in that deal.

[cwill1410]

I disagree about moving Teague in a deal for Amare....no way you do that. I mean the Suns are in the weaker position right now, they don't have any leverage. No Teague in that deal.

hopefully all of you wont keep getting your hopes up. theres never anything on tv about amare and the hawks. nothing on the internet anywhere. there is no recent talks. its all just speculation. not going to happen

[DominiqueWilkins]

hopefully all of you wont keep getting your hopes up. theres never anything on tv about amare and the hawks. nothing on the internet anywhere. there is no recent talks. its all just speculation. not going to happen

I doubt any agreement between us and Phoenix is made, but Sund won't show his cards, so if we're offering your not going to hear about it unless someone from Phoenix speaks.

Edited June 28, 2009 by DominiqueWilkins