Lets say Joe Johnson dont sign with us next season.....

[JTB]

I was thinking...........if JJ hasnt signed with us by now then it looks like he's really going to test the free agent market but maybe its too early to tell. Anyhow I just like other hawk fans like JJ alot

but if he actually decides to test the market I say we go after D.WADE! I mean I do think its possible to get him since we all know he's going to be a free agent cause the heat aint doing sh*t to

make him want to stay!LOL

So say JJ dont sign next off-season. Would it be possible for us to sign D.WADE or Would we have to release another player to get someone like D.WADE cause of his huge contract?

(ATL Im sure Im not the only one who has been thinking about something like this..........If jj dont sign we must go after WADE if we can afford to have him on the team)

[Mrs. Joe Johnson]

Dwade in ATL I find that highly unlikely. I guess Kobe and Lebron coming 2!

[pimp]

:beat: :slap1: :computer8:

[AHF]

Read the pinned thread from Hawksfanatic on the cap situation. We will not be able to offer more than the MLE to any free agent next offseason except for JJ (i.e., our own free agents for whom we have bird rights).

[Johnnybravo4]

Honestly what would be the difference? The difference between JJ and Wade isn't enough to make us a championship team. Our only chance for us to become champions is if both Smoove and Marvin become star players, or at least Lamar Odom/Artest Caliber

[jy23]

Honestly what would be the difference? The difference between JJ and Wade isn't enough to make us a championship team. Our only chance for us to become champions is if both Smoove and Marvin become star players, or at least Lamar Odom/Artest Caliber

:cant believe:

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Read the pinned thread from Hawksfanatic on the cap situation. We will not be able to offer more than the MLE to any free agent next offseason except for JJ (i.e., our own free agents for whom we have bird rights).

Exactly.

If we lose JJ, we're looking at 2 options.

1) Do nothing, and let Crawford be the guy taking all of the shots at the end of the game ( unless Marvin or Smoove can become reliable enough to get the job done in this area )

2) Make a trade to bring in another star caliber player. ( and I'm not talking about trading Mo Evans for somebody . . . It'll have to be a trade that sees Josh Smith or Al Horford leave this team, because those are the 2 guys that most people want ).

Or it could be option #3 . . . re-sign JJ at a lower price

The problem with that strategy, is that if LeBron and Wade switch teams, you're going to see a domino effect take place throughout the league. There are just going to be too many teams with cap space, that could possibly offer JJ more than a 15 million a year deal next summer, if they choose to do so.

- Minnesota

- New Jersey

- LA Clippers

- NY Knicks

- possibly Houston ( because McGrady's contract expires next season )

- if Lebron leaves Cleveland, then Cleveland

- if Wade leaves Miami, then Miami ( Hell . . . Miami could possibly do it, even if they do re-sign Wade )

Maybe a 4th option, would be to have JJ still on the market next summer, but not renounce his rights, so that the Hawks could possibly do a sign and trade for somebody(s).

I understand what the Hawks are doing. They're trying to see if JJ is a guy that you can win a title with, if you have the right pieces around him.

It's Russian Roulette though. I can see us losing JJ, then not being able to do anything. We'll end up the exact same way that Chicago did, when they basically lost Ben Gordon for nothing.

My prediction is this . . and I said this over the summer. If the Hawks struggle, they're going to be looking to trade JJ before the trading deadline.

They'll end up trading him for a cat like Kevin Martin of Sacramento, along with an expiring contract to make the numbers match . . like a Desmond Mason or somebody. And they'll try to sell us on the fact that Martin is a good shooter ( possibly even better than JJ ), and that we can rely on his shooting for the next 4 years.

But like with the Danny Manning / Nique trade, the effect probably wouldn't hurt the Hawks tremendously . . until the playoffs came around.

Then Martin would get really exposed as the non-defensive playing guard that he is. And we'd have 2 of those guys on the team ( Martin and Crawford ), who can score, but won't play a lick of defense.

We get bounced out in the 1st round in 7 games, and all hell would break loose . . . starting with Woody being fired . . . and probably ending with Smoove being traded.

[High5]

Honestly what would be the difference? The difference between JJ and Wade isn't enough to make us a championship team. Our only chance for us to become champions is if both Smoove and Marvin become star players, or at least Lamar Odom/Artest Caliber

Swap Joe for Wade and we instantly become a championship contender.

[MaceCase]

:doh:

[jerrywest]

Swap Joe for Wade and we instantly become a championship contender.

If I was as powerful as you are, I'd have wished for end of wars and hunger.

[jerrywest]

Exactly.

If we lose JJ, we're looking at 2 options.

1) Do nothing, and let Crawford be the guy taking all of the shots at the end of the game ( unless Marvin or Smoove can become reliable enough to get the job done in this area )

2) Make a trade to bring in another star caliber player. ( and I'm not talking about trading Mo Evans for somebody . . . It'll have to be a trade that sees Josh Smith or Al Horford leave this team, because those are the 2 guys that most people want ).

Or it could be option #3 . . . re-sign JJ at a lower price

The problem with that strategy, is that if LeBron and Wade switch teams, you're going to see a domino effect take place throughout the league. There are just going to be too many teams with cap space, that could possibly offer JJ more than a 15 million a year deal next summer, if they choose to do so.

- Minnesota

- New Jersey

- LA Clippers

- NY Knicks

- possibly Houston ( because McGrady's contract expires next season )

- if Lebron leaves Cleveland, then Cleveland

- if Wade leaves Miami, then Miami ( Hell . . . Miami could possibly do it, even if they do re-sign Wade )

Maybe a 4th option, would be to have JJ still on the market next summer, but not renounce his rights, so that the Hawks could possibly do a sign and trade for somebody(s).

I understand what the Hawks are doing. They're trying to see if JJ is a guy that you can win a title with, if you have the right pieces around him.

It's Russian Roulette though. I can see us losing JJ, then not being able to do anything. We'll end up the exact same way that Chicago did, when they basically lost Ben Gordon for nothing.

My prediction is this . . and I said this over the summer. If the Hawks struggle, they're going to be looking to trade JJ before the trading deadline.

They'll end up trading him for a cat like Kevin Martin of Sacramento, along with an expiring contract to make the numbers match . . like a Desmond Mason or somebody. And they'll try to sell us on the fact that Martin is a good shooter ( possibly even better than JJ ), and that we can rely on his shooting for the next 4 years.

But like with the Danny Manning / Nique trade, the effect probably wouldn't hurt the Hawks tremendously . . until the playoffs came around.

Then Martin would get really exposed as the non-defensive playing guard that he is. And we'd have 2 of those guys on the team ( Martin and Crawford ), who can score, but won't play a lick of defense.

We get bounced out in the 1st round in 7 games, and all hell would break loose . . . starting with Woody being fired . . . and probably ending with Smoove being traded.

Great post. Post of the month.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Swap Joe for Wade and we instantly become a championship contender.

No we wouldn't.

Because you'd still need the scenario to develop that JB talked about. And that is either Smoove or Marvin would have to become a star caliber player. For Smoove, we're talking about him shooting 50+% FG, scoring 20 ppg and grabbing 10 rebs. It if's Marvin, we're talking about him scoring somewhere around 20 ppg, while shooting in the high-40% FG, and at least in the low-40% 3FG.

If a team wants to win a title in this league, this is usually the formula:

- at least 2 All-Star caliber players ( preferably a guard + a PF or C . . with one of those guys being at least a 1st or 2nd team All-NBA player )

- a 3rd player who can occasionally play at a star level

- overall, a top 10 defensive team ( preferably a top 5 one )

If you usually don't have ALL of those components on your team, you're usually not winning a title, or in contention for one.

[jerrywest]

They'll end up trading him for a cat like Kevin Martin of Sacramento, along with an expiring contract to make the numbers match . . like a Desmond Mason or somebody. And they'll try to sell us on the fact that Martin is a good shooter ( possibly even better than JJ ), and that we can rely on his shooting for the next 4 years.

But like with the Danny Manning / Nique trade, the effect probably wouldn't hurt the Hawks tremendously . . until the playoffs came around.

Compared to regular seasons, JJ's post-seasons have been duds. Martin/Crawford have the potential to go Gordon.

Edited September 22, 2009 by jerrywest

[High5]

No we wouldn't.

Look at the Heat team Wade willed to a title. We don't have a Shaq, but we're better at pretty much everything else. Plus Wade is a better player now.

[jy23]

No we wouldn't.

Because you'd still need the scenario to develop that JB talked about. And that is either Smoove or Marvin would have to become a star caliber player. For Smoove, we're talking about him shooting 50+% FG, scoring 20 ppg and grabbing 10 rebs. It if's Marvin, we're talking about him scoring somewhere around 20 ppg, while shooting in the high-40% FG, and at least in the low-40% 3FG.

If a team wants to win a title in this league, this is usually the formula:

- at least 2 All-Star caliber players ( preferably a guard + a PF or C . . with one of those guys being at least a 1st or 2nd team All-NBA player )

- a 3rd player who can occasionally play at a star level

- overall, a top 10 defensive team ( preferably a top 5 one )

If you usually don't have ALL of those components on your team, you're usually not winning a title, or in contention for one.

Where was all of this on that team that wade won a title with, besides Shaq they were ALL second rate to the players that we have on our team. He basically won that title by himself. We have a pretty good defensive team and adding him would def put us into the top 5 range. If wade were on this team we would be a title contender, what player are you looking at?

[DrReality]

Exactly.

If we lose JJ, we're looking at 2 options.

1) Do nothing, and let Crawford be the guy taking all of the shots at the end of the game ( unless Marvin or Smoove can become reliable enough to get the job done in this area )

2) Make a trade to bring in another star caliber player. ( and I'm not talking about trading Mo Evans for somebody . . . It'll have to be a trade that sees Josh Smith or Al Horford leave this team, because those are the 2 guys that most people want ).

Or it could be option #3 . . . re-sign JJ at a lower price

The problem with that strategy, is that if LeBron and Wade switch teams, you're going to see a domino effect take place throughout the league. There are just going to be too many teams with cap space, that could possibly offer JJ more than a 15 million a year deal next summer, if they choose to do so.

- Minnesota

- New Jersey

- LA Clippers

- NY Knicks

- possibly Houston ( because McGrady's contract expires next season )

- if Lebron leaves Cleveland, then Cleveland

- if Wade leaves Miami, then Miami ( Hell . . . Miami could possibly do it, even if they do re-sign Wade )

Maybe a 4th option, would be to have JJ still on the market next summer, but not renounce his rights, so that the Hawks could possibly do a sign and trade for somebody(s).

I understand what the Hawks are doing. They're trying to see if JJ is a guy that you can win a title with, if you have the right pieces around him.

It's Russian Roulette though. I can see us losing JJ, then not being able to do anything. We'll end up the exact same way that Chicago did, when they basically lost Ben Gordon for nothing.

My prediction is this . . and I said this over the summer. If the Hawks struggle, they're going to be looking to trade JJ before the trading deadline.

They'll end up trading him for a cat like Kevin Martin of Sacramento, along with an expiring contract to make the numbers match . . like a Desmond Mason or somebody. And they'll try to sell us on the fact that Martin is a good shooter ( possibly even better than JJ ), and that we can rely on his shooting for the next 4 years.

But like with the Danny Manning / Nique trade, the effect probably wouldn't hurt the Hawks tremendously . . until the playoffs came around.

Then Martin would get really exposed as the non-defensive playing guard that he is. And we'd have 2 of those guys on the team ( Martin and Crawford ), who can score, but won't play a lick of defense.

We get bounced out in the 1st round in 7 games, and all hell would break loose . . . starting with Woody being fired . . . and probably ending with Smoove being traded.

Agreed . . . . great post. Well thought out. We cannot let him walk . . . . . there would have to be a trade, because NY is going to throw some money at him or others.

[MaceCase]

Where was all of this on that team that wade won a title with, besides Shaq they were ALL second rate to the players that we have on our team. He basically won that title by himself. We have a pretty good defensive team and adding him would def put us into the top 5 range. If wade were on this team we would be a title contender, what player are you looking at?

You should pay attention to what North says, he's usually on the money despite the narcism of his jumpshot index and his Woody love. That Miami team wasn't just Wade, anything and everything started with Shaq as he was a dominant big both on the defensive and offensive end and the attention he drew allowed everyone else on that team to thrive. That constitutes the two Allstars that he mentioned especially of the guard/big variety.

They didn't have a singular 3rd player capable of performing at an allstar level but rather a platoon of 'Zo who was tremendous on the defensive end to go along with Posey then j Will and 'Toine playing very efficiently. The experience alone of former allstars Zo, Payton and Toine and the hall of fame coaching of Pat Riley more than make up for any one individual performance

That team was 9th in defensive rating and an even better 7th on offense thanks to Shaq drawing double teams allowing Wade to slash one on one and all those shooters to have open looks.

All in all you too easily disregard Shaqs (and Zo's) contributions to that team and unless Josh/Marvin/Horf reach anywhere near that realm of dominance (he posted a PER of 24 to go along with Wade's 27. for reference Joe led our team last year with a PER of 18) as our frontcourt players the simple addition of Wade will not spell championship for us............Now say add Wade and Amar'e whom North and I are fond of and we are definetly talking contention now........

There I just joined in this fantasy nonsense. :beathorse:

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You should pay attention to what North says, he's usually on the money despite the narcism of his jumpshot index and his Woody love. That Miami team wasn't just Wade, anything and everything started with Shaq as he was a dominant big both on the defensive and offensive end and the attention he drew allowed everyone else on that team to thrive. That constitutes the two Allstars that he mentioned especially of the guard/big variety.

They didn't have a singular 3rd player capable of performing at an allstar level but rather a platoon of 'Zo who was tremendous on the defensive end to go along with Posey then j Will and 'Toine playing very efficiently. The experience alone of former allstars Zo, Payton and Toine and the hall of fame coaching of Pat Riley more than make up for any one individual performance

That team was 9th in defensive rating and an even better 7th on offense thanks to Shaq drawing double teams allowing Wade to slash one on one and all those shooters to have open looks.

All in all you too easily disregard Shaqs (and Zo's) contributions to that team and unless Josh/Marvin/Horf reach anywhere near that realm of dominance (he posted a PER of 24 to go along with Wade's 27. for reference Joe led our team last year with a PER of 18) as our frontcourt players the simple addition of Wade will not spell championship for us............Now say add Wade and Amar'e whom North and I are fond of and we are definetly talking contention now........

There I just joined in this fantasy nonsense. :beathorse:

Thank you for saving me a lot of typing. That Miami team was a damn good unit.

Just adding Wade in place of JJ, wouldn't get us past Boston, Orlando, or Cleveland. Like you said, either add Amare, or hope and pray that Josh Smith, Horford, and Marvin improve dramatically.

Damn . . Zo averaged 2.7 blks in 20 minutes? Imagine if we had him as a backup center on this team.

[sillent]

Honestly what would be the difference? The difference between JJ and Wade isn't enough to make us a championship team. Our only chance for us to become champions is if both Smoove and Marvin become star players, or at least Lamar Odom/Artest Caliber

Are u serious? Wade has the skills and the heart of a champion. He is currently the third best player in the league (maybe debatable but only slightly if any) and what seperates him from JJ is his leadership. I have thought about pairing Wade with Smoove for awhile but add Horford, Marvin, Bibby, Teague, Crawford, and the crew. Could u really tell me that we would not be a championship team in the eyes of more than just us Hawks fans.

Back to the subject though I believe this year JJ will go out and earn his money(which may end up getting us further than we would have imagined). Just like Woody was given a roster he has been asking for so has JJ( Please Bring Vets Plea!!) and neither one of them has any excuses. JJ will have a very capable back up in Jamal Crawford whether Crawford's coming off the bench or playing along side JJ (Decreases double teams). Joe Smith is around along with Jason Collins to give the young bigs some wisdom (Might lower possible frustrations that Joe may have felt from our young vets). More back ups more rest!! Winning will always be a motivation but the confidence to win is just as important(Being a team 10 deep can lift spirits and energy). JJ has hit 30 footers and played with Lebron, Wade and others who were impressed with his game(maybe he was holding back or needed a second wind). Competing against Crawford is another motivational tool for Joe to play at a high level every night. Without stating any more of the obvious, Joe should definitely be one of the top tier players next year at least on the brinks with Roy.

He can also be the perfect role player instead of the premier player for our team if everybody steps it up which they should(Smoove,Marvin,Horford,TeagueUnderrated Rookie Plea and Crawford with his new team and playoff hopes )

[jerrywest]

I am sure there is at least one team that has told JJ's agent that a max offer will be extended in 2010.