Jeff Schultz says Either way, we’ll gain salary space and have the flexibility to move some pieces around. That’s a good thing.

[JTB]

Jeff Schultz says it himself that bosh and even wade are a possiblity for this team next off season when joe test the free agency and we as hawk fans shouldnt be alarmed but maybe looking forward to next off season!

Article:

Johnson needs to be elite before he gets an elite contract

9:42 am September 30, 2009, by Jeff Schultz

Joe Johnson says he's an elite player? Let him prove it. (Johnny Crawford/jcrawford@ajc.com)

Let Joe Johnson prove he's an elite player. (Johnny Crawford/AJC)

The Hawks just opened training camp, and Joe Johnson used the opportunity to announce that he will test free agency after this season.

Normally, when a team’s leading scorer makes such a declaration, it’s a cause for concern. Not in this case.

I’ve banged this drum before but it seems like a good time to repeat it. Johnson is a very good player. But he’s not a difference maker. Difference-makers stand out in the playoffs. Johnson generally hasn’t done that. Now, if you want to put that on the team around him or the head coach (Mike Woodson) for not placing him in better situations, that’s fine. But by and large, Johnson has not taken games over like stars are supposed to do. I put that on him.

Let him go. Let him jump into the free agency pool and see what’s out there. I just don’t think the Hawks should be in a position to offer Johnson more than the four-year, $60 million extension that he rejected — and frankly I’m surprised they went that high.

Johnson told our Sekou Smith, “My sole focus right now is on this team and what we’re trying to accomplish this season. … I really feel like this team is ready to take that step to the next level. I also feel like I can be one of the elite players in this league.”

OK. Let’s see it.

If Johnson proves to be an elite player, he’ll get the contract he deserves. If he doesn’t, then he’s not worthy of whatever deal he’s after – and nobody else will give it to him, either.

If he leaves, the Hawks will lose a good player. But they would gain a wealth of options. Next year’s free agency class will be the biggest ever (LeBron James probably is not realistic. If he leaves Cleveland, it will probably be for a major market, like New York. But Chris Bosh (who played at Georgia Tech) or Dwyane Wade — why not?). Either way, they’ll gain salary space and have the flexibility to move some pieces around. That’s a good thing.

Johnson testing free agency is no reason to panic? Good. Let’s see what a little contract motivation does for his game.

link:

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2009/09/30/johnson-needs-to-be-elite-before-he-gets-an-elite-contract/?cxntfid=blogs_jeff_schultz_blog

To my squawkers who know everything:

An some of you thought i was living a fantasy on my other post about d.wade a possible pick up next off season since johnson is testing the market. I can really see us going after d.wade next off season and moving some other pieces around!

oh and many of you think you know all about our cap situation but honestly you only know what the internet tells you (which isnt accurate by the way) unless you personally know one of the asg owners you dont know how much we can offer a player! the only thing you know is that the asg is cheap but i know they wouldnt be for a player like wade or bosh who is on a bigger level than jj

Edited September 30, 2009 by JTB

[Admin]

And in writing that article proves that he has zero grasp of the NBA salary cap. Losing Johnson for nothing would be catastrophic for the Hawks as we simply CANNOT sign a big money FA. We'd have the MLE to try and replace JJ and that's it.

[coachx]

To my squawkers who know everything:

An some of you thought i was living a fantasy on my other post about d.wade a possible pick up next off season since johnson is testing the market. I can really see us going after d.wade next off season and moving some other pieces around!

I don't know everything but I know the basics.

No team can go over the salary cap to sign other team's free agents (James , Wade, Bosh, Stoudemire, etc.) Teams can only go over the cap to sign their own free agents.

That has nothing to do wit the ASG being "cheap" either............its just the basic rules in the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement).

Schultz does not have a clue what he is talking about when he says we could sign Bosh or Wade. He should leave the NBA writing to Sekou.

Edited September 30, 2009 by coachx

[Admin]

JTB I suggest that you spend some time reading what is considered to be the place for NBA Salary Cap information. http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

Then, check out this site to see that we have 47 million commited salary for next year WITHOUT JJ. http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/hawks.jsp

We could get down to 40 million if we don't pick up the option on Al Horford and Mo Evans declines his player option but there's no way we won't at least pick up the option on Al Horford which would put us around 45 million. Assuming that the salary cap stays the same as this year and doesn't decline (which is possible and predicted) we'd have anywhere from 10-12 million to sign a FA with if Evans declined his option. Again though the salary cap is predicted to decline next year and some have said it might be by a large amount.

[txsting]

Jeff Schultz says it himself that bosh and even wade are a possiblity for this team next off season when joe test the free agency and we as hawk fans shouldnt be alarmed but maybe looking forward to next off season!

Article:

Johnson needs to be elite before he gets an elite contract

9:42 am September 30, 2009, by Jeff Schultz

Joe Johnson says he's an elite player? Let him prove it. (Johnny Crawford/jcrawford@ajc.com)

Let Joe Johnson prove he's an elite player. (Johnny Crawford/AJC)

The Hawks just opened training camp, and Joe Johnson used the opportunity to announce that he will test free agency after this season.

Normally, when a team’s leading scorer makes such a declaration, it’s a cause for concern. Not in this case.

I’ve banged this drum before but it seems like a good time to repeat it. Johnson is a very good player. But he’s not a difference maker. Difference-makers stand out in the playoffs. Johnson generally hasn’t done that. Now, if you want to put that on the team around him or the head coach (Mike Woodson) for not placing him in better situations, that’s fine. But by and large, Johnson has not taken games over like stars are supposed to do. I put that on him.

Let him go. Let him jump into the free agency pool and see what’s out there. I just don’t think the Hawks should be in a position to offer Johnson more than the four-year, $60 million extension that he rejected — and frankly I’m surprised they went that high.

Johnson told our Sekou Smith, “My sole focus right now is on this team and what we’re trying to accomplish this season. … I really feel like this team is ready to take that step to the next level. I also feel like I can be one of the elite players in this league.”

OK. Let’s see it.

If Johnson proves to be an elite player, he’ll get the contract he deserves. If he doesn’t, then he’s not worthy of whatever deal he’s after – and nobody else will give it to him, either.

If he leaves, the Hawks will lose a good player. But they would gain a wealth of options. Next year’s free agency class will be the biggest ever (LeBron James probably is not realistic. If he leaves Cleveland, it will probably be for a major market, like New York. But Chris Bosh (who played at Georgia Tech) or Dwyane Wade — why not?). Either way, they’ll gain salary space and have the flexibility to move some pieces around. That’s a good thing.

Johnson testing free agency is no reason to panic? Good. Let’s see what a little contract motivation does for his game.

link:

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2009/09/30/johnson-needs-to-be-elite-before-he-gets-an-elite-contract/?cxntfid=blogs_jeff_schultz_blog

To my squawkers who know everything:

An some of you thought i was living a fantasy on my other post about d.wade a possible pick up next off season since johnson is testing the market. I can really see us going after d.wade next off season and moving some other pieces around!

oh and many of you think you know all about our cap situation but honestly you only know what the internet tells you (which isnt accurate by the way) unless you personally know one of the asg owners you dont know how much we can offer a player! the only thing you know is that the asg is cheap but i know they wouldnt be for a player like wade or bosh who is on a bigger level than jj

Schultz is NOT entirely wrong. Without JJ, and if we could move Maurice Evans, we would be $12M under the cap next year, if the cap stays exactly where it is right now. That would mean we could offer 4 for $54M, or 5 for $70M to somebody. That won't net an all-star, but you might get back something similar to JJ. Of course we could make other trades during the season to increase that cap space if it looks like we'll need it.

[Admin]

Schultz is NOT entirely wrong. Without JJ, and if we could move Maurice Evans, we would be $12M under the cap next year, if the cap stays exactly where it is right now. That would mean we could offer 4 for $54M, or 5 for $70M to somebody. That won't net an all-star, but you might get back something similar to JJ. Of course we could make other trades during the season to increase that cap space if it looks like we'll need it.

But it WILL NOT get a player the caliber of Wade or Bosh, not even close which is why I say he has no grasp of the salary cap and he's just creating false hope by trying to sell people on the idea that losing JJ for nothing isn't a disaster, which it would be.

[Buzzard]

oh and many of you think you know all about our cap situation but honestly you only know what the internet tells you (which isnt accurate by the way) unless you personally know one of the asg owners you dont know how much we can offer a player! the only thing you know is that the asg is cheap but i know they wouldnt be for a player like wade or bosh who is on a bigger level than jj

You quote an article from the internet and in the same breath say we should not believe the information on salary cap that we get from the internet. Come on man...the NBA cap rules are listed on the NBA site and they are in place so teams like the Lakers or Celtics can't just go out and sign Lebron, Wade, Bosh, or JJ anytime they become available; without first getting rid of some players (contracts) in order to make room under the cap.

It is in place to maintain parity and it works petty well as long as your GM is smart enough to use it to his advantage and the teams owner is willing to spend huge amounts of money to get star quality players. The way you look at the cap would indicate the Lakers, Celtics, or Knicks, who have owners and a market filled with millions possibly a billion, could just sign an all world team and win every championship that comes their way.

The NBA and the NBA cap rules are in place to prevent that. We cannot sign anyone next year to a big contract without trading contracts like Smoove and Marvin for expiring contracts while also losing JJ. That is the only way we can make room to go after a big ticket like Wade. And even Smoove and Marvins combined contracts may not be enough to get it done.

It is fantasy to think we can sign Wade under our current cap situation...just as it is for a Laker or Celtic fan to think it.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Buzzard

[HawkItus]

Ha ha. This is great. I'll give you one thing JTB, you have some balls. But, you and Schultze are wrong.

[txsting]

But it WILL NOT get a player the caliber of Wade or Bosh, not even close which is why I say he has no grasp of the salary cap and he's just creating false hope by trying to sell people on the idea that losing JJ for nothing isn't a disaster, which it would be.

I agree that losing JJ for nothing puts us in a dicey situation. We enter next offseason with a ton of risk. However we do have some other options such as dealing Bibby (or maybe Zaza or Crawford) for an expiring contract and thus being able to offer a true max contract. It's not that we have no options, but we'll be taking on a ton of risk and could potentially destroy the future of this team. Let's hope Teague can really ball because that will give us some options and flexibility regarding Bibby.

Make no bones about it, JJ IS this team. Without him or a suitable replacement, the Hawks are sunk.

I'd like to know what kind of contract it would take to get Joe to sign right now. I tend to agree that 5 for 60 is a fair deal but I might go a little further than that to avoid the risk. We need JJ much more than he needs us.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

To my squawkers who know everything:

An some of you thought i was living a fantasy on my other post about d.wade a possible pick up next off season since johnson is testing the market. I can really see us going after d.wade next off season and moving some other pieces around!

oh and many of you think you know all about our cap situation but honestly you only know what the internet tells you (which isnt accurate by the way) unless you personally know one of the asg owners you dont know how much we can offer a player! the only thing you know is that the asg is cheap but i know they wouldnt be for a player like wade or bosh who is on a bigger level than jj

And your mistake is that you take more stock in idiot sportswriters whose job is to have an opinion not necessarily based on FACTS, than to actually study the situation for yourself, and see if what Schultz is saying is true or not.

It has nothing to so with "knowing it all". It has everything to do with knowing how the free agency system works, according to our financial situation.

The fact is that it may have very well been possible to make a play for Wade or Bosh . . IF . . we'd kept Speedy and Acie for one more year ( approx 8 mill ) . . let Bibby or Zaza go last summer. . and then let JJ go next summer.

Of course, doing all of that may or may not have jeapordized our playoff hopes for this upcoming season. But it would've had us in a great position to make a play for one of the major free agents in the summer of 2010.

But even if we completely let JJ go next year, we don't have nearly enough money to make a play for anybody major . . except JJ . . unless you want to trade Smoove for somebody ( which the fans obviously don't want to do )

The pinned thread on our cap situation is correct. What AJC sportswriters usually tell you, is usually based on opinion, with little facts to back them up.

[AHF]

To my squawkers who know everything:

An some of you thought i was living a fantasy on my other post about d.wade a possible pick up next off season since johnson is testing the market. I can really see us going after d.wade next off season and moving some other pieces around!

oh and many of you think you know all about our cap situation but honestly you only know what the internet tells you (which isnt accurate by the way) unless you personally know one of the asg owners you dont know how much we can offer a player! the only thing you know is that the asg is cheap but i know they wouldnt be for a player like wade or bosh who is on a bigger level than jj

I beg you to actually show us the numbers how we can sign Wade as a FA next offseason. People have give you the links for the cap numbers, the rules, and now the ball is in your court to actually show how you would get us far enough below the cap to make a max offer to Bosh or Wade.

[buckeye242424]

Ha ha. This is great. I'll give you one thing JTB, you have some balls. But, you and Schultze are wrong.

Yeah he does! I'll be the first to admit that I'm no guru when it coms to the finances of the Hawks, that's why I read it here. But, when you have Dolfan, Northcyde, and AHF opposing the argument...well, they know their stuff.

[gsuteke]

Jeff Schultz says it himself that bosh and even wade are a possiblity for this team next off season when joe test the free agency and we as hawk fans shouldnt be alarmed but maybe looking forward to next off season!

To my squawkers who know everything:

An some of you thought i was living a fantasy on my other post about d.wade a possible pick up next off season since johnson is testing the market. I can really see us going after d.wade next off season and moving some other pieces around!

oh and many of you think you know all about our cap situation but honestly you only know what the internet tells you (which isnt accurate by the way) unless you personally know one of the asg owners you dont know how much we can offer a player! the only thing you know is that the asg is cheap but i know they wouldnt be for a player like wade or bosh who is on a bigger level than jj

[Buzzard]

When I read some posts on the Squawk after JJ announced he wouldn't sign an extension it just makes my head hurt.

Can we have a little patience and not draw unfounded conclusions? This goes out to Squawkers and our AJC writers, some people are making mountains out of molehills.

See I think JJ is either going somewhere else or we have to sign him to the max.

Very few unrestricted all-stars stay put and if you look at all the teams that geared up for the free agent period of 2010 it is pretty obvious why....teams covet all-stars and there will be some big dollars thrown at these five: Wade, Lebron, JJ, Bosh, and Boozer.

Mountain out of a molehill this is not. Business in the NBA it is....

[mrhonline]

JTB,

If Larry Coon's FAQ isn't enough for you (Coon claims to have an actual copy of the CBA), then use this site:

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles.php

[gsuteke]

JTB,

If Larry Coon's FAQ isn't enough for you (Coon claims to have an actual copy of the CBA), then use this site:

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles.php

You're wasting your time. This is a "SHCOOL" discussion.

[Iman]

I actually don't mind at all that JJ didn't resign. It actually gives us more flexibility to change our team if it's not successful this year. The offer sounded large enough so that JJ will still probably be willing to come back if it looks like we might challenge for a title assuming no one blows away what we'll offer. However, if we get knocked out of the playoffs earlier next year, JJ doesn't earn it, etc, we can move on or even try to sign and trade JJ. If our GM feels is the case maybe he can make a salary dump move to get some capspace so we can make a run at a superstar.

[sillent]

I agree that losing JJ for nothing puts us in a dicey situation. We enter next offseason with a ton of risk. However we do have some other options such as dealing Bibby (or maybe Zaza or Crawford) for an expiring contract and thus being able to offer a true max contract. It's not that we have no options, but we'll be taking on a ton of risk and could potentially destroy the future of this team. Let's hope Teague can really ball because that will give us some options and flexibility regarding Bibby.

Make no bones about it, JJ IS this team. Without him or a suitable replacement, the Hawks are sunk.

I'd like to know what kind of contract it would take to get Joe to sign right now. I tend to agree that 5 for 60 is a fair deal but I might go a little further than that to avoid the risk. We need JJ much more than he needs us.

:speak: Correction!! Although JJ is a great player JJ was this team. Does nobody understand the concept of growing up anymore. Kobe is still maturing and finalizing his game at his age now. Know one doubted he was a great individual player but I/we watched him grow even more the past two years as a better team player and look at where he is now. We got talented 24's year old's who still have no where to go but up and some people are already trying to give them a ceiling. Not to mention our new additions this year and next if JJ decides to leave.

I do agree though that we should let him earn what he wants along with Woodson. It will make the season even more interesting and everyone has a something a little more to play for. We win big keep our coach we play right keep our allstar/elite player. He can easily show us more with more rest, less double teams, more competition(On our own team), less weight on his shoulders(Everybody getting better and more clutch players) and more motivation(Money,Big Playoff Expectations).

Edited October 1, 2009 by sillent

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,

What about the possibility of a sign and trade in the 2010 offseason? If I am not mistaken, we could give him 6 years compared to other teams maximum 5, which should at least allow us to get another high caliber player. I realize we would have to give up other players to have the cap space to do so.

I am a big fan of JJ and think his size at the 2 makes him a tough matchup for other teams. His Playoff performances have been less than thrilling, but all defenses seemed to be based on double and triple teaming him.

That being said, the same can be said of every teams number 1 option and his numbers in the Playoffs have not transcended into that of an elite player. I am cautiously optimistic about Jamal Crawford and think he really might add another dimension. Also, it is nice insurance if JJ leaves and we get nothing back for him.

Cheers,

JJ

[DrReality]

Glad someone is telling the truth about an elite player.