Checking standings / Box Scores! - - - -

[Gray Mule]

:thumbsdownsmileyanim:

New Jersey just whipped New Orleans - - - 115-87.

New Orleans record as of now - - - 35-43. Staying home for the playoffs.

CP went 2-11 for 4 points // 6 assists.

Atlanta just won over the Pistons.

The Hawks record right now - - 49-27. Currently 3rd in the east.

MW went 3-6 for 7 points / 1 assist..

The Pistons aren't really good - - Hawks won the home game.

The NJ Nets are terrible -- Yet, they walloped the Hornets.

We all cry about that year's draft - - Yet, MW's team is going to the playoffs and CP3"s team is staying home.

My point is, Seems to me that it's time to dry our eyes and enjoy our man MW and enjoy going to the playoffs.

GO HAWKS!!!!

:line dance:

[APE]

CP should've let Darren run the team for the rest of the year

[Diesel]

:thumbsdownsmileyanim:

New Jersey just whipped New Orleans - - - 115-87.

New Orleans record as of now - - - 35-43. Staying home for the playoffs.

CP went 2-11 for 4 points // 6 assists.

Atlanta just won over the Pistons.

The Hawks record right now - - 49-27. Currently 3rd in the east.

MW went 3-6 for 7 points / 1 assist..

The Pistons aren't really good - - Hawks won the home game.

The NJ Nets are terrible -- Yet, they walloped the Hornets.

We all cry about that year's draft - - Yet, MW's team is going to the playoffs and CP3"s team is staying home.

My point is, Seems to me that it's time to dry our eyes and enjoy our man MW and enjoy going to the playoffs.

GO HAWKS!!!!

:line dance:

Yeah... and Hakeem's teams won two titles in 1994 & 1995. I guess they didn't make a mistake passing over Michael Jordan.

It's really simple Mule. We didn't need a 6th Sf. We needed a PG. We had to postphone our playoffs until after we acquired Bibby.

Now to look at what Marvin brings to his team and what Paul brings to his team is a joke. But you knew this. You just wanted to stir up something. I hope you're this good at marketing your book. I want you to be successful!

[AnthonyI11]

This is a stupid thread...

Chris Paul was injured during their playoff push. End of story.. :thumbsdownsmileyanim:

[Gray Mule]

Diesel: I know, MW is terrible and CP3 is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

The entire point is: CP3, as great as he is, is staying home and MW, as bad as he is, his team made

it to the playoffs. We desperately needed a PG, as you point out and we didn't need anything that MW

has done for the Hawks. We didn't need him then and we don't need him now.

Despite all this, we, the Atlanta Hawks faitful, have our team going to the playoffs for the third year in a row.

:stirthepot:

(Diesel, I too want my book to be successful. Try it, you'll like it!)

:helpsmilie:

[Plastic Man]

I see what you are saying GM. Plus, Paul could have gotten hurt on our team too.

[dakast]

:thumbsdownsmileyanim:

New Jersey just whipped New Orleans - - - 115-87.

New Orleans record as of now - - - 35-43. Staying home for the playoffs.

CP went 2-11 for 4 points // 6 assists.

Atlanta just won over the Pistons.

The Hawks record right now - - 49-27. Currently 3rd in the east.

MW went 3-6 for 7 points / 1 assist..

The Pistons aren't really good - - Hawks won the home game.

The NJ Nets are terrible -- Yet, they walloped the Hornets.

We all cry about that year's draft - - Yet, MW's team is going to the playoffs and CP3"s team is staying home.

My point is, Seems to me that it's time to dry our eyes and enjoy our man MW and enjoy going to the playoffs.

GO HAWKS!!!!

:line dance:

Are you serious...... :huh:

[Gray Mule]

Am I serious? Why wouldn't I be?

We're going to the playoffs. The Hornets aren't. End of story. Everything else is just window dressing.

:snowballfight:

[Eddielives]

Am I serious? Why wouldn't I be?

We're going to the playoffs. The Hornets aren't. End of story. Everything else is just window dressing.

:snowballfight:

Now if we just take a little more in depth look at their careers respectively......

[FrankWhite]

Yeah... and Hakeem's teams won two titles in 1994 & 1995. I guess they didn't make a mistake passing over Michael Jordan.

Actually, they didn't. Hakeem's a top 5 center all time. The Bulls would've taken him over Jordan at the time, too.

It's been 5 years now. Get over it.

[MrRyda]

Yes, let's just disregard everybody else on our team. We're going to the playoffs because we drafted Marvin frickin' Williams.

And let's also disregard the fact the CP3 has been injured for most of the season and is still playing hurt right now.

The fact of the matter is getting to the playoffs shouldn't be good enough. You draft right and most of us are talking championship right about now.

[Atlantaholic]

Consider that if we don't win the championship this year and JJ walks (two very likely things to happen) the Marvin Williams pick may still end up haunting us for the next decade. Out of five years since that draft we have had a better team than New Orleans 1 time. That one year New Orleans has struggled with injuries and we have had the healthiest team in the NBA. Also consider that our PG situation is STILL among the worst in the league and there doesn't seem to be any options out there for the next few years that will solve it for us. Marvin is as expendable as any player I've ever seen. Not hard to find a SF who averages 10 ppg, 5, apg, and 1 apg. I mean, I wouldn't even feel that bad about the draft if Marvin was at least playing like a top 15 pick, but the guy looks like a Mo Evans type of player out there. It's impossible to know what our team would look like if we redid the draft, but one thing is for certain: In a league where championships come to teams with Hall of Fame superstars, not having one on your team is a huge obstacle. An obstacle we wouldn't have to worry about for the next 10 years in a Marvin Williamless reality.

In all honesty I would prefer if no one ever mentioned that draft to me ever again for as long as I live.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Atlantaholic

[Dejay]

Oh boy. Gray, you're my man and all but you're better than this.

Please tell me that you're comparing the Hornets to the Hawks and not Chris Paul to Marvin Williams. Please say that so this thread can end peacefully.

Do we really need to bring up the career stats (or even this season's numbers, for that matter) for both guys (let alone add Deron Williams') to prove which one doesn't belong with the others?

Bottom line is that Chris Paul is a wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better basketball player than Marvin Williams; Williams just happens to play for a better TEAM than Paul does and that didn't happen until this season.

With Williams, the Hawks are just rounding into being a 50-win team; with Paul, the Hawks would've been there TWO YEARS EARLIER.

With Williams, we have a one-year window to win. With Paul, we have a one-decade window to win.

With Williams, we had to pay the likes of Speedy Claxton, Tyronn Lue, Anthony Johnson, draft Law and Teague, and eventually trade and re-up with Mike Bibby. With Paul, all of the resources used to fill ONE POSITION ON THE COURT could've been used for the big man this team sorely needs (along with a small forward who can actually, get this, PLAY).

With Williams, we have a homeless man's Derrick McKey. With Paul, we have a rich man's Isiah Thomas.

With Williams, we have a small forward who can be replaced with the Mo Evanses and Kenny Thomases of the world and not miss that much. With Paul, well, we can simply take a look at the standings to see how much the Hornets missed him this year.

With Williams, we have a guy who won't sniff an All-Star game without needing a ticket or ID to get in. With Paul, we have an perennial All-Star for the next 6-10 years.

If this was a bout, the ref would stop it before someone gets seriously hurt. Marvin plays for a better team right now but make no mistake; short of winning the title, picking him over Deron and CP3 will cost this franchise dearly for years to come, especially if JJ decides to walk.

What, he's going to all of the sudden go for 21/7 come playoff time or the year after? It's like that old Gatorade commercial; is it in him? I don't think it is, either.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

[AHF]

I agree with GM on this.

Obviously, the pick was a mistake. We picked the wrong guy and blew it - badly. We did the same thing the next year with Shelden. We did a lesser version of this with Childress and with Law. Despite that series of mistakes, we have a team that is in the top 4 in the East and that is a consistent playoff team with a fairly young core. Even if JJ leaves, the Hawks should still be in the running with Crawford, Smooth and Horford as the building blocks of next year's team.

The 2005 draft was 5 years ago. It is hard to track the implications of that pick but we can certainly assume that we don't get Al Horford. Neither Deron Williams nor Chris Paul have sniffed the NBA finals to date any more than we have. While we would be better with our current roster - MW, MB + CP/DW, Childress, teams make mistakes in the draft all the time and there comes a time when Charlotte needs to stop bemoaning passing over Brandon Roy for Adam Morrison and we need to stop whining about MW over CP/DW.

It is time to get over it and limit the crying over spilled milk to retrospective threads.

[Sothron]

:thumbsdownsmileyanim:

New Jersey just whipped New Orleans - - - 115-87.

New Orleans record as of now - - - 35-43. Staying home for the playoffs.

CP went 2-11 for 4 points // 6 assists.

Atlanta just won over the Pistons.

The Hawks record right now - - 49-27. Currently 3rd in the east.

MW went 3-6 for 7 points / 1 assist..

The Pistons aren't really good - - Hawks won the home game.

The NJ Nets are terrible -- Yet, they walloped the Hornets.

We all cry about that year's draft - - Yet, MW's team is going to the playoffs and CP3"s team is staying home.

My point is, Seems to me that it's time to dry our eyes and enjoy our man MW and enjoy going to the playoffs.

GO HAWKS!!!!

:line dance:

The lack of logic in this post is staggering. Did someone hack into Gray Mule's account?

Just to clear things up: Paul has missed most of the season due to injuries. Paul is a multiple All Star and was a serious candidate for MVP as of last season. Marvin Williams is a bust, has been a bust and will continue to be a bust. No one will ever be able to make it seem that the Hawks made out better in that draft by choosing Marvin over Paul and (imo the better point guard) Deron Williams.

[AHF]

No one will ever be able to make it seem that the Hawks made out better in that draft by choosing Marvin over Paul and (imo the better point guard) Deron Williams.

That includes Gray Mule who didn't make that argument at all. He said it is time to get over it - not that Marvin was a better pick than Paul. Anyone on this thread who is debating the relative merits of Marvin v. Paul is entirely missing GM's point, IMO. As I said before, I think he would be telling the Bobcats to get over passing over Brandon Roy for Adam Morrison and to enjoy the Cats playoff run if he was on their board. At a certain point, you have to let go of the fact that you could have had Al Jefferson or Iggy instead of Childress; could have had Roy or Rondo instead of Shelden; could have had Rodney Stuckey or Carl Landry instead of Acie Law, etc. and get on with the business of enjoying the team that is rather than the team that could be.

Edited April 6, 2010 by AHF

[Sothron]

That includes Gray Mule who didn't make that argument at all. He said it is time to get over it - not that Marvin was a better pick than Paul. Anyone on this thread who is debating the relative merits of Marvin v. Paul is entirely missing GM's point, IMO. As I said before, I think he would be telling the Bobcats to get over passing over Brandon Roy for Adam Morrison and to enjoy the Cats playoff run if he was on their board. At a certain point, you have to let go of the fact that you could have had Al Jefferson or Iggy instead of Childress; could have had Roy or Rondo instead of Shelden; could have had Rodney Stuckey or Carl Landry instead of Acie Law, etc. and get on with the business of enjoying the team that is rather than the team that could be.

With all due respect you should reread his OP. He directly compares Marvin's and Paul's game numbers from an arbitrary game and then postulates that because Marvin's on a playoff team and Paul is on a non playoff team that the Hawks were better off with Marvin.

[niremetal]

Actually, they didn't. Hakeem's a top 5 center all time. The Bulls would've taken him over Jordan at the time, too.

It's been 5 years now. Get over it.

Exactly. I almost blew water out my nose when I saw his bit about Hakeem and MJ.

I don't get why some people are intent on comparing Marvin to the guys drafted after him 5 years ago instead of guys who play a role like him today. That is to say, perimeter forwards who are asked to play D, do the little things, and cobble together some points despite not getting many-to-any plays run for them: Tayshaun Prince, Shane Battier, Andrei Kirilenko, Thabo Sefolosha, etc. The main skill those guys have is that they find a way to contest the shot of whoever they are guarding without fouling; on the other end, they usually just fade to the corner or set up on the weakside wing. Those guys' salaries vary widely (and generally in direct proportion to how much they are asked to score), and Marvin is getting paid right in the range of what one might expect of someone in his position (ie a click or two above the mid-level).

Outside of posts on fan blogs, I have never seen a single article calling Marvin Williams a bust, probably for the same reason that you can't find guys calling Hakeem a bust simply because he wasn't better than Michael Jordan. Marvin is not as good as CP3 or Deron, and I've never seen a soul since 2006 suggest that he is. Like AHF said, Gray Mule was just saying that while Marvin isn't CP3 and never will be, maybe we should get over that because we're doing just fine as a team anyway - just as the Rockets did just fine, thanks, without MJ.

Edited April 6, 2010 by niremetal

[AHF]

With all due respect you should reread his OP. He directly compares Marvin's and Paul's game numbers from an arbitrary game and then postulates that because Marvin's on a playoff team and Paul is on a non playoff team that the Hawks were better off with Marvin.

I did read his original post, and I reread it before posting this post. It seems to me he is saying to get over it because it isn't like Paul's selection has led to NO being so much of a better franchise than the Hawks. He cherry picked an off night for Paul to emphasize the point, but the read I take from his post is not that he thinks Marvin is better than Paul or that the Hawks are a better team for having passed on Paul but rather that the Hawks franchise looks a lot better this year than the Hornets do despite having passed on Paul for the mediocre Marvin Williams. Last season Paul had a career year and his team won exactly 2 more games than the Hawks and his team was beaten in the first round of the playoffs while we advanced to the second round. Paul has never led a team past the second round of the playoffs or led them to the second round two seasons in a row - a place we are heavily favored to reach again this season.

I see the message as "get over it" rather than "Marvin is better than Paul." Moreover, if you look at GM's posting history I think it is pretty clear he doesn't think that the Hawks made a better pick with Marvin than they would have with Paul given the benefit of 20/20 hindsight as some seem to be reading into his post.

In fact, doesn't he make that blatantly clear here:

Diesel: I know, MW is terrible and CP3 is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

The entire point is: CP3, as great as he is, is staying home and MW, as bad as he is, his team made

it to the playoffs. We desperately needed a PG, as you point out and we didn't need anything that MW

has done for the Hawks. We didn't need him then and we don't need him now.

Despite all this, we, the Atlanta Hawks faitful, have our team going to the playoffs for the third year in a row.

Edited April 6, 2010 by AHF

[Sothron]

He went back in and tried to rationalize his OP. His OP is a cherry picking argument at its worst that somehow Marvin managed to make the Hawks a playoff team while Paul somehow makes his team not a playoff team.

I also have to raise eyebrows at your last post. Are you seriously comparing the chances of a team to make the playoffs in the East versus the West and holding them to the same standard? Really? You don't think the Hornets making it to the playoffs and getting to the second round was a littttttttttttttle more harder than the Hawks doing the same?