New Coach and Hawks Mgt

[Vol4ever]

So tell me......................................................Since Rick Sund has sent Woody packing, if the Hawks hire another assistant how is that an improvement? I could see releasing Woodson for a championship coach...............but the retread names I've seen and the no head coaching experience assistants I have seen listed just doesn't show anything positive IMO.

This team is managed and operated on a beans and taters budget!

Edited May 15, 2010 by Vol4ever

[KB21]

So tell me......................................................Since Rick Sund has sent Woody packing, if the Hawks hire another assistant how is that an improvement? I could see releasing Woodson for a championship coach...............but the retread names I've seen and the no head coaching experience assistants I have seen listed just doesn't show anything positive IMO.

This team is managed and operated on a beans and taters budget!

I agree with you in theory. However, I'm tired of seeing the same old coaches get recycled in this league. Because of that, I'm for giving someone their first opportunity to be a head coach. This league needs new blood in the coaching ranks. There are several assistants out there that deserve to get head coaching jobs, and this isn't the same job it was 6 years ago. Back then, this was a no win situation for any coach. Now, a coach with no experience may be stepping into a great situation much like Avery Johnson stepped into with the Dallas Mavericks.

The fact is, there are not many true championship caliber coaches in the NBA. IMO, the truly great coaches can be counted on one hand - Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, and Greg Popovich. Outside of those guys, I think most everyone else is about equal in terms of coaching ability.

I can buy going after Avery Johnson because I think he got a raw deal in Dallas. What I can't buy is going after someone like Byron Scott, who has shown early success but ultimate failure as a head coach in the NBA. I know you aren't using him as an example, but why should the Hawks consider Scott over a guy like Ty Corbin or Tom Thibodeaux who have paid their dues and have been assiciated with winning teams?

And this is coming from a guy that strongly supported hiring Mike Fratello as short as two years ago.

I am intrigued with coaches like Ty Corbin and Tom Thibodeax. I am less intrigued with guys like Dwane Casey and Sam Mitchell.

[niremetal]

I agree with you in theory. However, I'm tired of seeing the same old coaches get recycled in this league. Because of that, I'm for giving someone their first opportunity to be a head coach. This league needs new blood in the coaching ranks. There are several assistants out there that deserve to get head coaching jobs, and this isn't the same job it was 6 years ago. Back then, this was a no win situation for any coach. Now, a coach with no experience may be stepping into a great situation much like Avery Johnson stepped into with the Dallas Mavericks.

The fact is, there are not many true championship caliber coaches in the NBA. IMO, the truly great coaches can be counted on one hand - Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, and Greg Popovich. Outside of those guys, I think most everyone else is about equal in terms of coaching ability.

I can buy going after Avery Johnson because I think he got a raw deal in Dallas. What I can't buy is going after someone like Byron Scott, who has shown early success but ultimate failure as a head coach in the NBA. I know you aren't using him as an example, but why should the Hawks consider Scott over a guy like Ty Corbin or Tom Thibodeaux who have paid their dues and have been assiciated with winning teams?

And this is coming from a guy that strongly supported hiring Mike Fratello as short as two years ago.

I am intrigued with coaches like Ty Corbin and Tom Thibodeax. I am less intrigued with guys like Dwane Casey and Sam Mitchell.

+1. I honestly don't understand the mentality of preferring proven losers to promising assistants with good pedigree. Our "veteran" choices are guys like Fratello and Byron Scott - you know, people with a record of failure in the playoffs. It's not like Phil Jackson or Rudy T is going to look at coming here.

If an assistant comes in for an interview and seems to have a better idea on how to fix a team than the better-known retreads, why on earth would you spend more just to land the bigger name?

Edited May 15, 2010 by niremetal

[shocker_90]

The only former head coach I would consider is Van Gundy. Other than him a guy like Rick Mahorn brings toughness and a defensive intesity. The only thing I would caution against is hiring one of these hot shot assistants b/c he was tutored by a great coach. Woody was supposed to be Larry Brown but he didn't have the offensive imagination or the ability to get the most out of his team.

[coachx]

So tell me......................................................Since Rick Sund has sent Woody packing, if the Hawks hire another assistant how is that an improvement? I could see releasing Woodson for a championship coach...............but the retread names I've seen and the no head coaching experience assistants I have seen listed just doesn't show anything positive IMO.

This team is managed and operated on a beans and taters budget!

Simple

They want to see what this team would be like without the iso JJ/Crawford offense being run 75% of the time.

Edited May 15, 2010 by coachx

[coachx]

And this is coming from a guy that strongly supported hiring Mike Fratello as short as two years ago.

I am intrigued with coaches like Ty Corbin and Tom Thibodeax.

I am still intrigued by Fratello but i'm not sure if he can crack Smoove.

Corbin intrigues me. He was very quiet as a player and played a cebral game. Its not like he was a 1 on 1 guy. Corbin had to learn the ins and outs of the game. He played a long time by finding a niche and playing team basketball. He had average athletic ability, in his prime, but found a way to player until he was 38. That is hard to do. I'm not sure just 2 year as an assistant with Larry Brown makes you ready to be a head coach. He is definately worth an interview.

Thibodeaux is a defensive guru which is nice. I'd like to see his twist on things. Who would be his assistants for offense ?

Edited May 15, 2010 by coachx

[Sothron]

+1. I honestly don't understand the mentality of preferring proven losers to promising assistants with good pedigree. Our "veteran" choices are guys like Fratello and Byron Scott - you know, people with a record of failure in the playoffs. It's not like Phil Jackson or Rudy T is going to look at coming here.

If an assistant comes in for an interview and seems to have a better idea on how to fix a team than the better-known retreads, why on earth would you spend more just to land the bigger name?

Fratello is a proven winner, I have no idea what point you are trying to make. I have no problems going with a lesser known guy but I'd rather have a proven winning coach.

[hazer]

Let's not forget that Phil Jackson was just Doug Collins' little assistant once upon a time.....

Edited May 15, 2010 by hazer

[mrhonline]

Ummm...wow. A KB21 sighting? Welcome back, stranger.

[KB21]

Ummm...wow. A KB21 sighting? Welcome back, stranger.

I've been busy with being a doctor in residency, and I am going to be a daddy in approximately three months.

[sturt]

Congrats, KB, on all of the above.

Guys, fwiw, if Sund calls me up and says, _sturt_, what do you recommend?...

I think I've talked myself into Byron Scott tonight.

I think the guy can coach the offensive side of the ball, but moreover, I think he brings a pedigree that would command the respect that so many of us are convinced has likely been missing... the most NBA finals experience of any of the potential candidates out there. He obviously has had some experience grooming point guards, and I also think he's the kind of guy that Joe Johnson would love to play for.

There is no Mr. Perfect. But I think his resume speaks louder than any of the other resumes.

[coachx]

I think I've talked myself into Byron Scott tonight.

I think the guy can coach the offensive side of the ball, but moreover, I think he brings a pedigree that would command the respect that so many of us are convinced has likely been missing... the most NBA finals experience of any of the potential candidates out there. He obviously has had some experience grooming point guards, and I also think he's the kind of guy that Joe Johnson would love to play for.

There is no Mr. Perfect. But I think his resume speaks louder than any of the other resumes.

His offense was called Kidd & Paul.

I wonder what he would be with Bibby & Teague ?

[KB21]

Congrats, KB, on all of the above.

Guys, fwiw, if Sund calls me up and says, _sturt_, what do you recommend?...

I think I've talked myself into Byron Scott tonight.

I think the guy can coach the offensive side of the ball, but moreover, I think he brings a pedigree that would command the respect that so many of us are convinced has likely been missing... the most NBA finals experience of any of the potential candidates out there. He obviously has had some experience grooming point guards, and I also think he's the kind of guy that Joe Johnson would love to play for.

There is no Mr. Perfect. But I think his resume speaks louder than any of the other resumes.

I agree that there isn't a Mr. Perfect, but Byron Scott's resume shows me that he's a roughly .500 coach that has had four winning seasons in 8 full seasons as a head coach. Add to that the fact that he's been fired twice. I just don't agree that his experience as a head coach makes him a better candidate than a guy who has never been a head coach before. Admittedly though, I want NBA teams to stop recycling head coaches and start cultivating a new crop of head coaches.

A common theme with Byron's teams during his coaching career is that they seem to have some initial success when he has great point guard play, but that success seems fleeting in the long run. His teams tend to get worse as time goes by.

[mrhonline]

I've been busy with being a doctor in residency, and I am going to be a daddy in approximately three months.

Either one of those would be enough on their own, I'm sure. Congrats!

[Vol4ever]

I will agree with most and say that Woody lost the team. Whoever the new coach is will have to deal with Smoove and his attitude. I like Fratello but realize managent will go the cheaper way in terms of salary. Ty Corbin might be the man. This is a crucial hire IMO

Congrats KB on the new addition coming up. Wow some of us have been around for a long time. Sturt, KB, MrOnline, Diesel, and others.............................and we have seen the good and bad times.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Vol4ever

[Diesel]

I agree.

I don't see the need for this team to play with an inexperienced assistant.

1. Will they respect an assistant?

2. Will an assistant know the road?

3. Will an assistant do any better going forward into the playoffs.

I want a guy who has coached before. If money were available, Byron Scott. However, in the absence of money, Sam Mitchell. I think Mitchell is a good X and Os guy. I want to see what he can put together defensively. From my reading, he's no nonesense.

[Hoopsterino]

At this point an energetic, bright, knowledgable assistant is more attractive than an old "retread".

With some serious do dilligence, a lucky roll of the dice, and just old fashioned thorough hard work....................they could strike gold.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Hoopsterino

[sturt]

Byron's wins year-by-year:

00-01 NJ 26 (5 fewer wins than previous season)

01-02 NJ 52 (11-9 in post-season; lost in NBA Finals, 4-0)

02-03 NJ 49 (14-6 in post-season; lost in NBA Finals, 4-2)

03-04 NJ Fired after going 22-20 through 42 games

04-05 NO 18 (2-29 through 31 games, with early injuries to Baron Davis, Jamal Mashburn and Jamaal Magloire)

05-06 OK/NO 38 (6 games out of playoffs)

06-07 OK/NO 39 (3 games out of playoffs)

07-08 NO 56 (7-5 in post-season; lost in Conf Semis, 4-3)

08-09 NO 49 (lost in first round, 4-1)

09-10 NO Fired after going 3-9 through first 12 games

Contrary to what was said earlier, Scott appears to have had less-than-stellar beginnings with each of his teams, then rode the acquisition of a superstar PG to take both franchises to all-time high successes. Those successes were succeeded on both occasions by firings that were both attributed to a loss of player confidence...

Following NO firing:

"I just think that we had gotten to the point where things that we were doing just weren't working, weren't being effective," Hornets forward David West told local reporters. Saying that the Hornets "needed to try some new things," West added: "Amongst the team I think there was a sense [that] a few guys weren't trusting what we had in terms of our system and our ability to know what we were going to get every single night from our system." Although he was named NBA Coach of the Year as recently as 2008 and despite obvious holes on the Hornets' roster that he had no power to fill -- particularly at the wing positions -- Scott has been under pressure since the playoffs last spring. The Hornets were pounded in the first round by Denver after an injury-filled regular season, losing by a whopping 58 points in Game 4 in what wound up as New Orleans' final home game of the season. Scott managed to hang on to his job in spite of the concerns about how much sway he still had in New Orleans' locker room in terms of getting a response from his players. But various NBA coaching sources have maintained for months that Scott's survival had more to do with the $5 million he was owed this season in the final year of his Hornets contract than any endorsement from management. Team president Hugh Weber described the team as "broken" in a session with local reporters, pointing to the signs of subpar energy and effort in four of New Orleans' six losses to date. It's also believed that Scott's reluctance to play prized rookie Darren Collison and preference for Bobby Brown or Devin Brown were also factors in Thursday's decision."

Following NJ firing:

""It happens to almost every coach eventually: Your message isn't well received and taken onto the court," team president Rod Thorn said at a news conference announcing the change....Thorn said he thought about firing Scott for more than a month and finally decided Sunday night that the time was right. He delivered the news to Scott on Monday morning after giving the job to Frank late Sunday night. "They discussed the situation and both concluded that the timing of the move is to the benefit of the team," McInerney told AP. "They decided another voice needed to be heard in the locker room."... Scott's status was made even more tenuous by persistent reports that he lacked the support of Kidd, who berated Scott after an embarrassing 110-63 loss in Memphis on Dec. 13. A source in the Nets' front office told AP that Kidd spoke to management Saturday and said the team need a change in leadership. Thorn said he didn't consult with any players before making the move. Kidd said he didn't know a change was imminent. "I felt it would turn itself around, and for a while it did. But it became evident to me that it wasn't going to turn around," Thorn said. "We have not played to the level we anticipated playing." Kidd, and forward Kenyon Martin, also took issue with Scott's coaching moves during last year's Finals, including how the coach used former Net Dikembe Mutombo against San Antonio and his reluctance to call for double teams on center/Finals MVP Tim Duncan. In the series' decisive Game 6, the Spurs went on a 19-0 second-half run that ultimately finished New Jersey. In the offseason, Kidd was being hotly pursued in free agency by the Spurs, and there were reports claiming that Kidd would not consider re-signing with the Nets unless Scott was fired. Despite their differences, Kidd re-signed with New Jersey for $103 million over six years."

Of course, loss of player confidence seems almost the norm these days for coaches getting dismissed. But still, it does call into question whether Scott answers my earlier assertion that we need someone whose coaching career and reputation command automatic respect. I'm not nearly so persuaded now, having read-up a little better on the negative that transpired in his previous two stops--I was mostly only aware of what had happened that was positive.

So, I guess I'm back to square one.

We have a coaching opening, but right now I'm still not seeing even ONE potential candidate out there who is clearly going to be a cut above the others in terms of being a fit to what we need at this stage.

[niremetal]

Fratello is a proven winner, I have no idea what point you are trying to make. I have no problems going with a lesser known guy but I'd rather have a proven winning coach.

What has Fratello proven he can win?

[Vol4ever]

Everyone talks about these assistants and the great training under Jerry Sloan, etc. Well hate to bust some bubbles but Woody trained under the Great Larry Brown. I just fail to see why you made a change if you didn't have a plan in place for a coach that could take us farher.

IMO this shows how Gearon doesnt have a clue along with the rest of the ownership and management. This appears to be a step backward IMO.