Anyone else a bit disillusioned?

[bumpyphish1]

...and I may not be back for awhile.

It has become clear to me it is impossible to win big with this ownership group in place.

It's obvious this team has gone as far as it can as constructed. We need a Center. We need a real #1 superstar (as Joe is obviously more suited to be a #2 on a great team). If possible, we could fill this void all with one superstar center if we could get one. But....we haven't made an attempt to acquire either one. We made a brilliant trade on draft night to move down, get the player we wanted an acquire the first pick in the second round (which is more valuable than late 1st round picks due to contractual reasons) which had me excited....until we sold off the pick for the dreaded "cash considerations" presumably acquiring enough $$$ to cover the contract of our new bottom tier Head coach.

Does anyone think Larry Drew is going to get us to the promised land? I mean, I have the highest of hopes for him, but with Orlando and now the booming Miami (not to mention uber-competitive MJ running Charlotte's franchise which I believe is only going to get better and better), we may be the worst team in a very strong division in a year or two. And, it's really telling when you consider how cheap he came....and despite saving on a HC, we still had to sell off a pick that could very well have netted us a franchise player or at least a major piece. I mean, DaJuan Blair and Glen Davis were 2nd rounders and I know I'm forgetting some other names. I haven't been less enthused about this franchise in probably two years. Thank god for the Braves and Falcons. And it's sad b/c the Hawks have always been my #1 love.

[Diesel]

...and I may not be back for awhile.

It has become clear to me it is impossible to win big with this ownership group in place.

It's obvious this team has gone as far as it can as constructed. We need a Center. We need a real #1 superstar (as Joe is obviously more suited to be a #2 on a great team). If possible, we could fill this void all with one superstar center if we could get one. But....we haven't made an attempt to acquire either one. We made a brilliant trade on draft night to move down, get the player we wanted an acquire the first pick in the second round (which is more valuable than late 1st round picks due to contractual reasons) which had me excited....until we sold off the pick for the dreaded "cash considerations" presumably acquiring enough $$$ to cover the contract of our new bottom tier Head coach.

Does anyone think Larry Drew is going to get us to the promised land? I mean, I have the highest of hopes for him, but with Orlando and now the booming Miami (not to mention uber-competitive MJ running Charlotte's franchise which I believe is only going to get better and better), we may be the worst team in a very strong division in a year or two. And, it's really telling when you consider how cheap he came....and despite saving on a HC, we still had to sell off a pick that could very well have netted us a franchise player or at least a major piece. I mean, DaJuan Blair and Glen Davis were 2nd rounders and I know I'm forgetting some other names. I haven't been less enthused about this franchise in probably two years. Thank god for the Braves and Falcons. And it's sad b/c the Hawks have always been my #1 love.

Some of the best HC have been assistants.

Phil Jackson, George Karl, Nellie, AJ, Byron Scott, etc... all these guys climbed out of the shadows after having been a AC. Even Fratello and Pat Riley (although Pat Riley stole Showtime from Westhead.. actually Riley was the commentator for the Lakers)

So, I think unless you want to see Stinger come from behind the booth, we should give LD a chance.

Many of the points you make are good. We do need a big. We do need a better PG.. However, that is true if we were going to play Woody ball. If LD delivers on his offensive promise, then I don't think that those things will matter much.

So right, now, instead of trying to predict what will happen, let's just wait and see.. We are very talented, we have a strong core of players who have played together for a number of years. Let's just wait and see, who knows... we might be the best team in the East before it's all said and done.

[Vol4ever]

...and I may not be back for awhile.

It has become clear to me it is impossible to win big with this ownership group in place.

It's obvious this team has gone as far as it can as constructed. We need a Center. We need a real #1 superstar (as Joe is obviously more suited to be a #2 on a great team). If possible, we could fill this void all with one superstar center if we could get one. But....we haven't made an attempt to acquire either one. We made a brilliant trade on draft night to move down, get the player we wanted an acquire the first pick in the second round (which is more valuable than late 1st round picks due to contractual reasons) which had me excited....until we sold off the pick for the dreaded "cash considerations" presumably acquiring enough $$$ to cover the contract of our new bottom tier Head coach.

Does anyone think Larry Drew is going to get us to the promised land? I mean, I have the highest of hopes for him, but with Orlando and now the booming Miami (not to mention uber-competitive MJ running Charlotte's franchise which I believe is only going to get better and better), we may be the worst team in a very strong division in a year or two. And, it's really telling when you consider how cheap he came....and despite saving on a HC, we still had to sell off a pick that could very well have netted us a franchise player or at least a major piece. I mean, DaJuan Blair and Glen Davis were 2nd rounders and I know I'm forgetting some other names. I haven't been less enthused about this franchise in probably two years. Thank god for the Braves and Falcons. And it's sad b/c the Hawks have always been my #1 love.

I agree Bump each summer we get our hopes up that this ownership will help out this team by filling out the roster. Heck we could have at least signed Kurt Thomas to help Horford out. Horford is our only legit rebounder on the roster.

Im frustrated myself. I hope things work out for the team, maybe Jason Collins will step up, and maybe Teague can play the point.

Drew is a joke IMO, I hope I'm proven wrong.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Vol4ever

[IHeartAtlanta]

Their are enough threads like this already...... Should've just posted on one of those :beathorse:

[DrReality]

Good to hear from you. Hope you don't give up but it seems we will rise or fall with our new HC.

[Swatguy]

...and I may not be back for awhile.

It has become clear to me it is impossible to win big with this ownership group in place.

It's obvious this team has gone as far as it can as constructed. We need a Center. We need a real #1 superstar (as Joe is obviously more suited to be a #2 on a great team). If possible, we could fill this void all with one superstar center if we could get one. But....we haven't made an attempt to acquire either one. We made a brilliant trade on draft night to move down, get the player we wanted an acquire the first pick in the second round (which is more valuable than late 1st round picks due to contractual reasons) which had me excited....until we sold off the pick for the dreaded "cash considerations" presumably acquiring enough $$$ to cover the contract of our new bottom tier Head coach.

Does anyone think Larry Drew is going to get us to the promised land? I mean, I have the highest of hopes for him, but with Orlando and now the booming Miami (not to mention uber-competitive MJ running Charlotte's franchise which I believe is only going to get better and better), we may be the worst team in a very strong division in a year or two. And, it's really telling when you consider how cheap he came....and despite saving on a HC, we still had to sell off a pick that could very well have netted us a franchise player or at least a major piece. I mean, DaJuan Blair and Glen Davis were 2nd rounders and I know I'm forgetting some other names. I haven't been less enthused about this franchise in probably two years. Thank god for the Braves and Falcons. And it's sad b/c the Hawks have always been my #1 love.

'fish, I believe LD can do well but he will have to have management support. Sund or whoever will need to make the moves to bolster the roster. There is too much on Al's shoulders and I wouldn't blame him if he leaves.

It is on ownership, LD is as good as many other HC's in the league. He needs another horse to win.

[Sothron]

I don't think we'll win a title with the ASG as ownership in either sport they own teams in.

[NJHAWK]

I thought things were bad when the nhl moved into 3rd place for me ahead of the nba. Now I will go as far to say that soccer ( english premeir league and Bundesliga) have moved ahead of the nba on my list. Thats a pretty insane statement to make since before the world cup I didnt even know most of the rules of the game and Im talking basic ones. I still care about the Hawks but all my passion and even anger towards Stern, the level of play, the refs, the culture, Sund and ASG, the big 3 and etc has turned to an almost complete lack of interest. I am almost 100% sure Im going to cancel my nba league pass this year and just watch the Hawks the few times they are on national tv except when they play Miami. I still love the Hawks but I cant stand the nba.

[ATLSmith]

I want to the Hawks to win a championship as much as the next guy but the Hawks have a winning team right now are fun to watch. That's good enough for me right now and, you never know, they could surprise some teams in the playoffs.

I have faith that LD will actually make this team even more exciting to watch. It used to annoy me to no end last season when the whole team would just stand arround and watch iso-Joe. That was not fun to watch.

[Wretch]

Larry Drew's hiring doesn't bother me so much anymore. In fact, it's the ONLY thing that gives me hope for this team. We are a good team and we're even better with ball movement. We'll also get a real chance to see if these guys (Horf, Marv, Teague) can do more if given an equal opportunity to shine. The only downside to this is whether or not Drew is any good...

Which brings me to the ASG. They're really bumming me out. I'd really like to see a head office that is getting after it, instead of always lagging behind the rest of the league. We always get to a point like this where we win and settle for being just an OK team. I'm really tired of being OK, but it seems to me like this ownership group is content to keep the status quo around the franchise.

I still care about the Hawks but all my passion and even anger towards Stern, the level of play, the refs, the culture, Sund and ASG, the big 3 and etc has turned to an almost complete lack of interest. I am almost 100% sure Im going to cancel my nba league pass this year and just watch the Hawks the few times they are on national tv except when they play Miami. I still love the Hawks but I cant stand the nba.

What happened in Miami is not good for the NBA. It's good to have powerhouse teams, but not something as ridiculous as that. You've got these guys taking pay cuts, simply to put gold on their finger. No drama, no build up, just spend a lot of money, okie-doke the system, and load a team with 3 stars. The game itself has gotten way to player focused and away from the team concept. Too much iso, too much "me-me-me." Too much catering to stars and to the big market teams. The NBA is really due for a a makeover. And the ASG with their puppet Sund...don't even get me started. All of this has me neither excited or disinterested in the upcoming season. It's just like...whatever.

[khaos7]

I won't lie; I am a bit disallusioned. Yes, we have talent (Smith, Johnson, Horford, Crawford). That said we have glaring holes (for me the biggest is at the PG position) that we either 1) haven't addressed or 2) we have our hopes pinned on things that are uncertain (Teague/Drew's offense).

I think I'm justified in saying I would have liked my front office to have done more in the offseason after being swept and losing by the largest point margin in playoff history. While I'm taking a wait and see approach on Drew, he's still an unproven until he proves something.

I'm not as concerned with Horford being undersized at the five. 1) He was an All Star at the position 2) Although he gave up size, he was faster than most 5's, giving him an advantage, 3) Other than Howard, Yao and perhaps Lopez, I don't know of too many bigs that dominated him.

What has me disallusioned is we failed to upgrade our perimeter defense. Howard kills everyone. However, we got burnt a lot a ton by open 3 point shooters. We only have one true SF on the roster (Marvin). I know JJ can slide over sometimes, but we're burning him too much as it is. Also, we got burnt by quick penetrating point guards. Bibby is old and Teague is unproven. Lastly, the teams around us are improving. We barely beat a shorthanded Bucks team and they gave us fits.

I'm not a GM, but given those variables, I believe moves should have been made. Nobody on this team should have been untouchable. I don't think we should have blown the thing up. However, this fanbase needed to see that this team was trying to win a championship. I just don't believe the ASG will ever be in that business.

[macdaddy]

I won't lie; I am a bit disallusioned. Yes, we have talent (Smith, Johnson, Horford, Crawford). That said we have glaring holes (for me the biggest is at the PG position) that we either 1) haven't addressed or 2) we have our hopes pinned on things that are uncertain (Teague/Drew's offense).

I think I'm justified in saying I would have liked my front office to have done more in the offseason after being swept and losing by the largest point margin in playoff history. While I'm taking a wait and see approach on Drew, he's still an unproven until he proves something.

I'm not as concerned with Horford being undersized at the five. 1) He was an All Star at the position 2) Although he gave up size, he was faster than most 5's, giving him an advantage, 3) Other than Howard, Yao and perhaps Lopez, I don't know of too many bigs that dominated him.

What has me disallusioned is we failed to upgrade our perimeter defense. Howard kills everyone. However, we got burnt a lot a ton by open 3 point shooters. We only have one true SF on the roster (Marvin). I know JJ can slide over sometimes, but we're burning him too much as it is. Also, we got burnt by quick penetrating point guards. Bibby is old and Teague is unproven. Lastly, the teams around us are improving. We barely beat a shorthanded Bucks team and they gave us fits.

I'm not a GM, but given those variables, I believe moves should have been made. Nobody on this team should have been untouchable. I don't think we should have blown the thing up. However, this fanbase needed to see that this team was trying to win a championship. I just don't believe the ASG will ever be in that business.

I'll +1 this but i think they are banking everything on dealing Craw midseason. I totally agree that the really important thing we need to upgrade is perimeter defense.

That said I'm not as disillusioned as some. I think the fans here are easily bored and nothing really excites anyone except armchair gm'ing. It gets worse in the offseason. Its much more fun to acquire players and think about how great it will be, but sometimes the best move is standing pat with the talent you have.

[AHF]

What happened in Miami is not good for the NBA. It's good to have powerhouse teams, but not something as ridiculous as that. You've got these guys taking pay cuts, simply to put gold on their finger. No drama, no build up, just spend a lot of money, okie-doke the system, and load a team with 3 stars. The game itself has gotten way to player focused and away from the team concept. Too much iso, too much "me-me-me." Too much catering to stars and to the big market teams. The NBA is really due for a a makeover. And the ASG with their puppet Sund...don't even get me started. All of this has me neither excited or disinterested in the upcoming season. It's just like...whatever.

I think a lot of the frustration and disillusionment is due to the Miami fiasco. Without that happening within the division, there would be more optimism, IMO (although still debate, criticism, etc.).

[Diesel]

Larry Drew's hiring doesn't bother me so much anymore. In fact, it's the ONLY thing that gives me hope for this team. We are a good team and we're even better with ball movement. We'll also get a real chance to see if these guys (Horf, Marv, Teague) can do more if given an equal opportunity to shine. The only downside to this is whether or not Drew is any good...

Which brings me to the ASG. They're really bumming me out. I'd really like to see a head office that is getting after it, instead of always lagging behind the rest of the league. We always get to a point like this where we win and settle for being just an OK team. I'm really tired of being OK, but it seems to me like this ownership group is content to keep the status quo around the franchise.

What happened in Miami is not good for the NBA. It's good to have powerhouse teams, but not something as ridiculous as that. You've got these guys taking pay cuts, simply to put gold on their finger. No drama, no build up, just spend a lot of money, okie-doke the system, and load a team with 3 stars. The game itself has gotten way to player focused and away from the team concept. Too much iso, too much "me-me-me." Too much catering to stars and to the big market teams. The NBA is really due for a a makeover. And the ASG with their puppet Sund...don't even get me started. All of this has me neither excited or disinterested in the upcoming season. It's just like...whatever.

Just a couple of things wretch:

1. I think the surprise of next season is that Miami will have other teams that are very competitive with them and they may not win the East..

2.I agree about LD, I had to look at his hiring for what it is... keeping things consistent, getting a guy who knows the team, getting a guy with fresh ideas.

Honestly, I think we have grown accustomed to watching how other teams hire coaches and believing that we should do the same. Other teams hire a new coach and clean house. We didn't. Maybe in our cheapness, we have found a better way to hire. Who knows the Hawks strengths better than LD. When I think about it, I think about the Dallas mavericks under Avery Johnson. All Johnson needed was a chance. He took that team that he was the AC with and as HC he took them to a few blown calls away from being NBA champions. He made his team go from being euro defenders to being an above average defensive team. He really didn't change much from year to year. In my heart, I want to say that ASG is just trying to keep everything healthy and kinda cheap to lure a big money investor... and when we get that investor, we clean up and bring in Doc Rivers. But the truth is that without Joe, we couldn't attract free agents and we wouldn't be good. I have no answers about Shaq.. and every other move was a money conscious move. This year, we see what we really have.

[Diesel]

I won't lie; I am a bit disallusioned. Yes, we have talent (Smith, Johnson, Horford, Crawford). That said we have glaring holes (for me the biggest is at the PG position) that we either 1) haven't addressed or 2) we have our hopes pinned on things that are uncertain (Teague/Drew's offense).

You are right. We have pinned our hopes on the uncertain. I think our offense is the main question. First let me say that I don't think Bibby's day is over. If we're running what I have been told we're running, then Bibby will be a valuable asset on the court. Even with his weak defense. Bibby's career has been about a guy who can hit the open shot. In what has been described, there's room for him on our court. As far as Teague goes, there's plenty of room for him too. He's a speedster who can drive. Perfect for motion. I'm sure that we also have renditions where Joe or Craw is running the point and that can work as long as we're not going ISO.

So yes, we put a lot of hope in the new offense. Why?

Jeff Teague - Overall I liked what I saw from Teague over the course of the Summer League. He averaged 15.6 points per game and 4.2 assists while shooting 52% from the floor. The only knock against him was a 4.4 turnover average but that was in large part due to one bad game that inflated his average. At any rate he will have to protect the basketball if he is going to see substantial playing time this season. Whether or not he supplants Mike Bibby the starter will likely not be decided until training camp and the pre-season. At the very least Teague should be able to make an impact off of the bench as a pace changer the way former Hawks guard Spud Webb did when he would enter the game. If Teague is going to fill a back up role then I think it is important for him to know what is needed of him once he hits the floor.

Jordan Crawford - I came away really impressed with Crawford as well. I knew that he was an explosive scorer coming out of college but I did not know what kind of overall game he possesses. He showed a keen sense for play making with an excellent passing ability. After watching him, you really can see why the comparisons to Jamal Crawford are valid. He has excellent range on his shot and a knack for getting into the paint and drawing fouls. He has an array of floaters in his arsenal around the hoop. He too had some issues with turning the ball over and in decision making but I am not going to hold that against him or Teague as they were seeing their first real action in the NBA Summer League or not. Will he contribute right away? I would say no just because of the number of guards on the Hawks roster. However, Crawford strikes me as a very confident player though and should a trade occur that clears the way for him I would expect him to step up if his number were called. He finished with the very nice averages of 16.2 points per game, 3.4 rebounds, 2.6 assists, and 1.8 steals over the course of Summer League.

From the summer league, these two were our guards. Look at the scoring.

While I know that Conner coaches much differently than Drew does, I also draw back on results from past summer leagues.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

There is no disillusionment amongst the fan base had we . . .

1) hired Avery Johnson as coach

2) signed Shaq

If the ASG accomplished that, you're not only talking about instant credibility from the national media, you instantly generate excitement amongst the fan base and the casual b-ball fans of Metro Atlanta.

I don't know why people are mad at the Heat. Had the Hawks been able to pull off something like that, that entire metro area would be buzzing about the Hawks, and season ticket sales would've gone through the roof.

But at the very least, they had a real good shot at bringing in a coach that has gotten to the NBA Finals . . . and a legit center who is still good, and is still one of the top 5 most popular players in the league.

Instead, they hired Woody's assistant, brought back one of the worst big men in the league, and brought in a PF that has never show much promise in the NBA.

A lot will be answered in that first month. We have a relatively easy schedule to start out with, but we also play our nemesis ( Orlando ) in that first month as well. If we play well vs everybody else, but Orlando still throttles us, all of the apathy toward the Hawks will still remain, because we'll know deep down that we still don't matchup vs Orlando.

Those 3 games vs Orlando before Christmas are more important to the fans, than all of those other games combined.

[HawksBalla]

I am disillusioned about this offseason. We are coming back with almost the exact same roster and coaching staff as last year's team that got completely SMOKED in the 2nd round for the second straight year. I would say that well over 50% of the East improved this offseason...but I don't feel like the Hawks can make that claim. This feeling reminds me of when it was clear that the Smitty-Blaylock-Mutumbo Hawks had peaked.

[DrReality]

The things I'm dissolusioned with does not stop at the ASG. This has become a sorry world.

[Vol4ever]

I am disillusioned about this offseason. We are coming back with almost the exact same roster and coaching staff as last year's team that got completely SMOKED in the 2nd round for the second straight year. I would say that well over 50% of the East improved this offseason...but I don't feel like the Hawks can make that claim. This feeling reminds me of when it was clear that the Smitty-Blaylock-Mutumbo Hawks had peaked.

I agree Nothing will change the regular season will be ok and we will get smoked again in the playoffs.

[Wretch]

Just a couple of things wretch:

1. I think the surprise of next season is that Miami will have other teams that are very competitive with them and they may not win the East..

2.I agree about LD, I had to look at his hiring for what it is... keeping things consistent, getting a guy who knows the team, getting a guy with fresh ideas.

Honestly, I think we have grown accustomed to watching how other teams hire coaches and believing that we should do the same. Other teams hire a new coach and clean house. We didn't. Maybe in our cheapness, we have found a better way to hire. Who knows the Hawks strengths better than LD. When I think about it, I think about the Dallas mavericks under Avery Johnson. All Johnson needed was a chance. He took that team that he was the AC with and as HC he took them to a few blown calls away from being NBA champions. He made his team go from being euro defenders to being an above average defensive team. He really didn't change much from year to year. In my heart, I want to say that ASG is just trying to keep everything healthy and kinda cheap to lure a big money investor... and when we get that investor, we clean up and bring in Doc Rivers. But the truth is that without Joe, we couldn't attract free agents and we wouldn't be good. I have no answers about Shaq.. and every other move was a money conscious move. This year, we see what we really have.

For me, that is very much true. However, I have to add that the teams around us have been going up and down in the time that it has taken us to simply go up. They must have figured out something we haven't...because even at our highpoint, we're still not as relevant as teams like Boston, Miami, and I would even go so far as to say Chicago. It's only a matter of time before NY gets its act together and lands somebody and with Miami and Boston setting fire to this Voltron trend, I imagine they'll not only be looking to add one guy like Melo or CP3, but they'll also be looking to add another.

Regardless, we've still got Orlando to contend with and we still have hungry teams like Charlotte and Milwaukee. And don't get me wrong...I don't want to derail this into a whole other subject because It's not the competitiveness of these teams that bothers me. I think that's great. It's the attitude of these teams front office vs. ours. They're already hungry, if MJ has his way, they'll be chasing after some big names pretty tough - they've already shown they're not scared to bring in a big name to the sideline.

So while we're sitting here pinning our hopes on a new offensive system and a new (and very much unproven) coach, teams continue to do what they've done for the pat 40 years. And that is, make moves that matter... While we're pretty much keeping the status quo, they're snatching up the right coaches and firing them accordingly until they get the right one. They're chasing the best players in the game until they get their hands on one (or in the case of Miami - THREE). Even the bottom feeders have hope - the Wizards may have just drafted their franchise.

Something is not quite right about the model we have used ever since I've been a fan. And it seems that "something" lies in the front office and the fact that they cannot (or will not) make the right moves at the right time to get us over the hump. Good Lord, I can only hope that they're trying to make the team appealing to a potential buyer...because I really don't want to sit through 4-5 years of "nickel and dime" management of a middle of the pack team.

I am disillusioned about this offseason. We are coming back with almost the exact same roster and coaching staff as last year's team that got completely SMOKED in the 2nd round for the second straight year. I would say that well over 50% of the East improved this offseason...but I don't feel like the Hawks can make that claim. This feeling reminds me of when it was clear that the Smitty-Blaylock-Mutumbo Hawks had peaked.

Hammer meets nail. That one sentence says it all.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Wretch