I've always been flummoxed by the passes MW gets..

[High5]

Wrong.

FACT: MW is averaging 9.6 PPG THIS YEAR and 10.1 last year.

How difficult is this to fact check?!? WTF?

W

You said he's scoring less without Joe. That's not true. He's scoring 10.3 points without Joe. That's a meaningless difference, but if you're going to post "FACT:" you should follow with actual facts.

Edited December 16, 2010 by High5

[High5]

Anyway, I agree with Ex. Marvin's biggest problem is obviously his lack of self-confidence, but I think the biggest detriment to that is his inconsistent jump shot. You can probably count on one hand the amount of games he's hit 2 jumpers in a row. Made shots breed confidence and when he does hit a couple that's when he seems to play with aggression, driving the basketball and crashing the glass.

[exodus]

Wrong.

FACT: MW is averaging 9.6 PPG THIS YEAR and 10.1 last year.

How difficult is this to fact check?!? WTF?

W

For you apparently it is pretty difficult. For the rest of us, not so much.

There are enough legitimate reasons to criticize Marvin without having to make stuff up and pretend it is true.

Edited December 16, 2010 by exodus

[Joker]

Marvin is not doing anything different than what others who are #2 or #1 options do who are not role players. They do not know when to use aggression no matter what. I seen it with Beasley last year in Miami. I see it with Harden in OKC. I seen it with Caron in LA. Some ppl are not role players. Marvin is a #2 option on a team where he's the fifth best scorer. Not likely to succeed in Atlanta. He just isn't a role player. We said this last season, in the summer, and again now. I could care less what ppl who dislike him think. He's talented, that much is clear but he's not a role player. I think he would flourish on a team where he's the 2nd option and clearly the teams second best scorer. He can draw a lot of fouls, he's a rhythm shooter and he can defend the position and play as many minutes as you need him to play. But he is not a role player. I still think he can be a 18-20 ppg scorer in this league with good rebounding numbers for his position.

On another note: Keep Bibby and Teague. Bibby is an excellent shooter and a role player but his defense is horrid and Atlanta puts too much responsibility on him. Teague has a lot of potential can could be like a lesser Kevin Johnson when it's said and done. Remember how long it took Andray Blatche to produce in this league and Teague is already better than Blatche at the same stage. This team needs to make moves. Marvin doesn't fit. No #1 options. No low post threat even though they are very talented bigs. The rest looks okay compared to the rest of the league.

[Diesel]

Marvin is not doing anything different than what others who are #2 or #1 options do who are not role players. They do not know when to use aggression no matter what. I seen it with Beasley last year in Miami. I see it with Harden in OKC. I seen it with Caron in LA. Some ppl are not role players. Marvin is a #2 option on a team where he's the fifth best scorer. Not likely to succeed in Atlanta. He just isn't a role player. We said this last season, in the summer, and again now. I could care less what ppl who dislike him think. He's talented, that much is clear but he's not a role player. I think he would flourish on a team where he's the 2nd option and clearly the teams second best scorer. He can draw a lot of fouls, he's a rhythm shooter and he can defend the position and play as many minutes as you need him to play. But he is not a role player. I still think he can be a 18-20 ppg scorer in this league with good rebounding numbers for his position.

On another note: Keep Bibby and Teague. Bibby is an excellent shooter and a role player but his defense is horrid and Atlanta puts too much responsibility on him. Teague has a lot of potential can could be like a lesser Kevin Johnson when it's said and done. Remember how long it took Andray Blatche to produce in this league and Teague is already better than Blatche at the same stage. This team needs to make moves. Marvin doesn't fit. No #1 options. No low post threat even though they are very talented bigs. The rest looks okay compared to the rest of the league.

What exactly is your alternative to role player? Surely it can't be premiere player? Surely it can't be the alpha dog? Marvin has absolutely no alpha dog tendencies. He doesn't want the ball. He wants to pass the ball. This is just who he is. It was evident from the first reports that we heard of Marvin. Remember back before we drafted him and the heart warming story came out about how Marvin sat the bench and let his friend play the final minutes of a championship game because he hadn't played yet..... Many of you thought that that spoke of Marvin's humanity... I said F--- that, Marvin will never be a star. The Star (alpha dog, elite player,etc) has a personality that's known. That guy wants the ball. That guy will play until nightfall if it means that he can get the win. Just think about Jordan. Do you think Jordan would sit out the final minutes of a championship game to let Kerr play? If Dean Smith were to have asked Jordan to sit and let somebody finish out a UNC Duke game (that was tight) Jordan would have looked Dean in the face and say F--- that little man. Marvin on the other hand didn't have this in his genetic makeup. Tonight, Craw will be out. Joe is out. A perfect time for Marvin to step up and be an alpha dog. Do you think he will?

[AHF]

Marvin has absolutely no alpha dog tendencies. He doesn't want the ball. He wants to pass the ball. This is just who he is.

Tonight, Craw will be out. Joe is out. A perfect time for Marvin to step up and be an alpha dog. Do you think he will?

He has done it before but for the reason you mention - he has zero alpha dog tendencies - I sure would rather bet against it.

[Sothron]

I hate that our game against Boston is on national television. We're out two of our best players and have virtually no chance of winning.

[lethalweapon3]

Marv doesn't even have gamma dog tendencies.

~lw3

[NineOhTheRino]

He'll have a good game TONIGHT because Drew is probably in his ear telling him to step up since the lineup is short. Don't expect anything after tonight though.

The thing i don't understand about Marvin is why in the hell does he have to be told to step up. Shouldn't he come ready to play? If I'm getting millions to play ball I'm out there foaming at the mouth ready tear it up. Even if I'm not scoring I'm bringing down at least 20 rebounds. I'm doing whatever possible to prove to the fans that i deserves these digits. Marvin....dude just doesn't give a damn about anything. Win or lose he'll still have that silly *ss grin on his face.

[Joker]

What exactly is your alternative to role player? Surely it can't be premiere player? Surely it can't be the alpha dog? Marvin has absolutely no alpha dog tendencies. He doesn't want the ball. He wants to pass the ball. This is just who he is. It was evident from the first reports that we heard of Marvin. Remember back before we drafted him and the heart warming story came out about how Marvin sat the bench and let his friend play the final minutes of a championship game because he hadn't played yet..... Many of you thought that that spoke of Marvin's humanity... I said F--- that, Marvin will never be a star. The Star (alpha dog, elite player,etc) has a personality that's known. That guy wants the ball. That guy will play until nightfall if it means that he can get the win. Just think about Jordan. Do you think Jordan would sit out the final minutes of a championship game to let Kerr play? If Dean Smith were to have asked Jordan to sit and let somebody finish out a UNC Duke game (that was tight) Jordan would have looked Dean in the face and say F--- that little man. Marvin on the other hand didn't have this in his genetic makeup. Tonight, Craw will be out. Joe is out. A perfect time for Marvin to step up and be an alpha dog. Do you think he will?

Can't disagree about alpha dog tendencies but he's not the only one who doesn't have them. There are #1 option who get their and take it (Alphas). Then there are #2 option guys who let it come to them (Some are alphas, some are not). Marvin fits the bill. The #3 options, not talented enough to be a #2 offensively but good enough to score 12-16 ppg and they play a role usually. (Marvin did okay in this role a couple years ago, but not good.) The role players, you do a couple of specific things and do that well. Marvin doesn't fit the bill.

Marvin is the type that if your a coach and you draw up a game-plan, say Marvin, I would you to take this many shots, he will do just that. How effective he is depends on how involed. If you say take 4-8 shots or our focus is around other players offensively, not Marvin, he will wander around on offense since he has very little movement off the ball on offense. But if you say Marvin, you are the focus, he will take 10-16 STA and draw fouls in the process as well as is useful on offense since he has to do something other then stand around.

I remember the story, will always remember the story and it's one of the main reasons I didn't want him but he have him so I could care less, we know his M.O. so it's a waste to discuss it. I think it was a AAU team or some youth team he was on. I wasn't impressed.

Being 18-20ppg in this league doesn't take alpha tendencies. Just shots and the ability to do it efficiently. He can be a good player with a kind heart. I agree, he will never be a great player, but we knew that along time ago. If he scores 25 points tonight, he will still be who he is. No way will he be an alpha dog to be honest.

[Seano]

He has done it before but for the reason you mention - he has zero alpha dog tendencies - I sure would rather bet against it.

He has done it before, and that's what makes Marvin all the more frustrating....because we know he *can* do it. I can remember a handful of games where Marvin came out fired-up or teed-off for whatever reason, and that showed very clearly because he was an actual player in those rare games, assertive and an actual difference maker on the floor as opposed to this timid and passive player we usually see, or rather don't 'see' because he's not making any plays.

So it's not like he's some scrubby-dubby-doo who's got no skills whatsoever. He does have skills, he does have the capacity within himself to play with passion and assertiveness on the floor, but in the vast majority of games he chooses not to do that, and that is damned frustrating to sit and watch that as a fan.

[Joker]

Can't disagree about alpha dog tendencies but he's not the only one who doesn't have them. There are #1 option who get their and take it (Alphas). Then there are #2 option guys who let it come to them (Some are alphas, some are not). Marvin fits the bill. The #3 options, not talented enough to be a #2 offensively but good enough to score 12-16 ppg and they play a role usually. (Marvin did okay in this role a couple years ago, but not good.) The role players, you do a couple of specific things and do that well. Marvin doesn't fit the bill.

Marvin is the type that if your a coach and you draw up a game-plan, say Marvin, I would you to take this many shots, he will do just that. How effective he is depends on how involed. If you say take 4-8 shots or our focus is around other players offensively, not Marvin, he will wander around on offense since he has very little movement off the ball on offense. But if you say Marvin, you are the focus, he will take 10-16 STA and draw fouls in the process as well as is useful on offense since he has to do something other then stand around.

I remember the story, will always remember the story and it's one of the main reasons I didn't want him but he have him so I could care less, we know his M.O. so it's a waste to discuss it. I think it was a AAU team or some youth team he was on. I wasn't impressed.

Being 18-20ppg in this league doesn't take alpha tendencies. Just shots and the ability to do it efficiently. He can be a good player with a kind heart. I agree, he will never be a great player, but we knew that along time ago. If he scores 25 points tonight, he will still be who he is. No way will he be an alpha dog to be honest.

:brick wall:

[exodus]

:brick wall:

You were off by a point so dont be too proud of yourself lol.

[AHF]

Looks like I was wrong and the answer to D's question of whether Marvin would step it up is: "yes."

Walter's question about whether he would increase his scoring with JJ out seems an unequivocal "yes" at this point given that his "JJ-less" scoring is up both over last season and over the "with-JJ" portion of the season.

[gsuteke]

Games like last night's make me really dislike Marvin.

[DJlaysitup]

Games like last night's make me really dislike Marvin.

Marvin trys - he simply isn't what many guessed he would be.

[Guest Walter]

Looks like I was wrong and the answer to D's question of whether Marvin would step it up is: "yes."

Walter's question about whether he would increase his scoring with JJ out seems an unequivocal "yes" at this point given that his "JJ-less" scoring is up both over last season and over the "with-JJ" portion of the season.

I guess the real problem is having to ask that question in the first place. Still, considerably less than the scoring of 3 years ago. Hard to develop backwards.

W

[terrell]

I'll be honest I don't see the reason to even post about Marvin any more. We all know he's a colossal bust that Sund/ASG gave a laughably bad contract extension and now we're all stuck with him for years. YEARS people. We aren't getting rid of him, no other team is going to take him off our hands. He's our Eddy Curry until he's an expiring contract. I'm not defending him, I'm just saying that honestly there's no reason to post about him. He's a bust that was overpaid tremendously and now we're stuck with him.

No one on this site is going to defend him so there isn't even a reason to post about him to "debate" with another poster.

If Rashard Lewis can get traded, then so can Marvin. lol!

[MaceCase]

If Rashard Lewis can get traded, then so can Marvin. lol!

Rashard was traded for a longer and worse contract.

[Guest Walter]

Rashard was traded for a longer and worse contract.

My first thought? "What? We traded Joe Johnson". Mind you, I ascribe to the notion that we had to pay JJ (or sign and trade him) and couldn't afford to lose him for nothing.

W