New BS Report

[NineOhTheRino]

some Hawks talk scattered throughout.

The Josh Smith talk is around the 32 mins (or 1/2) remaining mark.

Horford talk following Smoove.

http://c.espnradio.com/audio/506835/simmons_2011-02-04-170335.mp3

mp3 download

Edited February 8, 2011 by NineOhTheRino

[Deeman]

Wonder where these Smoove trade rumors are coming from. Also that would be a dumb trade by G.S trading your best player for Smoove. That would defeat the purpose of drafting Udoh 6th overall last year.

[Admin]

Monta for Josh and Golden State pauses for 7 more seconds before accepting than the Hawks? I don't know about that one, I mean I like Monta a lot but how does he fit on our non-ISO structured offense? But holy crap can you imagine the potential scoring output we could get with the trio of Monta, Jamal and JJ on the court at the same time? Would Monta be able to run the point for us and how much of a defensive upgrade would he be over Bibby?

Hollinger on Monta ...

+ Super quick guard who loves to push tempo and finish in transition.

+ Defensive ball hawk but gambles too much and lacks size for two.

+ Mediocre outside shooter who often shoots contested Js early in shot clock.

Ellis is talented enough that he may eventually become very valuable, but at the moment he is the league's most overrated player. He plays like he learned the game from watching Allen Iverson tapes, and I don't mean that as a compliment. Probably no player in the league took more ill-advised jump shots early in the shot clock, a particular problem in this case because Ellis isn't a good jump shooter -- he made only 33.8 percent of his 3s and 38.1 percent of his long 2s.

Ellis finished with a gaudy scoring average because he played a lot of minutes on a fast-paced team, but he was 47th among shooting guards in both TS% and pure point rating. Basically, he dribbles around looking for a shot unless circumstances force him to pass.

The most damning stat, however, is how much better the team played without him. Golden State outscored its opponents quite comfortably as long as Ellis wasn't around, and finished a whopping 11.4 points per 100 possessions better without Ellis -- giving him the single worst differential in basketball.

[coachx]

The deal makes sense for GS b/c their backcourt is flawed. Neither Ellis or Curry can defend SGs.

I don't like Ellis , Crawford, and JJ on the same team. There are not enough shots to go around . Horford would not touch the ball enough. In fact Horford does not touch the ball enough as it is.

Here is my conclusion:

1. A Smoove for Ellis trade makes us worse this year.

2. The trade makes much more sense for the Hawks next season since there is a 99% chance we lose Crawford for nothing in free agency. Without Crawford this team would desperately need a shot creator and dribble penetrator like Monta Ellis so that JJ is not the only "creator" on the team.

I'm on the fence on this one but I would be more likely do the deal in off season if Crawford signs with another team.

Now for Curry I'd do whatever it takes to make it happen.

Edited February 8, 2011 by coachx

[AHF]

Curry >> Ellis

Smoove >> Ellis

Edited February 8, 2011 by AHF

[Admin]

Curry >> Ellis

Smoove >> Ellis

No disagreement from me on either of those points, but the only points that really matters are which player is GS making available, if any, and whether or not their is a mutual interest in trading Smoove for that player from each team. I would trade Smoove for Curry all day long but I probably would not trade him for Ellis unless they were expanding the deal and we improved someplace else as well.

[exodus]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Ellis. He is averaging 25 ppg with good efficiency. I am sure they realize that an Ellis/Curry backcourt won't work long term.

[AHF]

No disagreement from me on either of those points, but the only points that really matters are which player is GS making available, if any, and whether or not their is a mutual interest in trading Smoove for that player from each team. I would trade Smoove for Curry all day long but I probably would not trade him for Ellis unless they were expanding the deal and we improved someplace else as well.

I guess my point is that I would not deal Smith for Ellis and that if Ellis and Curry are being shopped then I would pay significantly more for Curry. I see Ellis as being one of those Gilbert Arenas, Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis sort of chuckers that will never put the team's success above their own scoring. For that reason, I have little interest in Ellis for anything like Josh.

[capstone21]

Ugh, I don't want another sg in a point guards body. I am not a fan of Ellis. He can score with anyone but he would be a bad fit for our system.

[exodus]

Ugh, I don't want another sg in a point guards body. I am not a fan of Ellis. He can score with anyone but he would be a bad fit for our system.

That is exactly the same thing people said about Flip and Crawford. In reality this would be one of the best places for Ellis to play because JJ is a good playmaker at the 2.

[JohnnyCASH]

That is exactly the same thing people said about Flip and Crawford. In reality this would be one of the best places for Ellis to play because JJ is a good playmaker at the 2.

what exactly did they say in the interview? it wont play for me.

[exodus]

what exactly did they say in the interview? it wont play for me.

I can't play vids at work.

[HawkItus]

For the Hawks I'd do it, but I'd feel pretty bad for Josh Smith.

[Joker]

Curry >> Ellis

Smoove >> Ellis

Curry is so overrated on this site it's hysterical.

Ellis is better than Curry. Smoove is better than Curry. I don't think Smoove is better than Ellis but I wouldn't trade for Ellis when we don't need Ellis and we need Smoove. I really think you guys think Curry is great, lol. Come on, this guy just have it. Not a PnR guy. He fits our system but not for Smoove, hell no. I like him but you guys are going way overboard. Ellis is better than him. It's not even comparable either. Smoove is too. He doesn't make us better if we get rid of one of our Big 3, just makes us a lot worst. Did you see how Nash did him yesterday, Nash treated Curry like he was Bibby. Come on, you guys can't be serious. Wow, Curry=Smoove. Tell that to a scout, they will laugh in your face, even one who doesn't like Josh Smith. I think we could be a contender if we get Curry and AB for Crawford and Teague. But we get a lot worst if we trade Smith for a downgrade, no matter what the downgrade is.

[Atlantaholic]

Ellis + JJ could definitely work. Ellis is having kind of a monster season this year, an improvement over last year. JJ and Ellis while not pure PG's are both amongst the best passing 2 guards in the game, and obviously even though Ellis is not going to help us on defense he is definitely not a downgrade from Bibby. If GS offers either Curry or Ellis for Smith I'm not sure we can say no to it.

[NineOhTheRino]

So you trade one of your best defensive players for one of the worst defensive players in the NBA. I guess that makes sense.

[Joker]

That is exactly the same thing people said about Flip and Crawford. In reality this would be one of the best places for Ellis to play because JJ is a good playmaker at the 2.

But Flip and Crawford never showed potential at PG and neither does Ellis. Very poor PnR PG, doesn't like to get others involved at times. Can be selfish. Nothing wrong with that but is a bad fit for the Hawks. Ellis is a top 5 SG and is a top 10 scorer in the league and can and is legit in that. The thing is, he doesn't fit a lot especially if Smoove is moved. Smoove value to us is larger than Ellis value for us. I don't like Ellis defense but he is an opportunist. I liken him to a younger A.I. without the superstar potential that A.I. had.

Ellis

Joe

Marvin

Horf

Collins

This team really sucks defensively. People will attack the rim at will and Horf is foul prone as it is. I would pass on deals they keep us where we are at and make us worst in the long run. It's funny, Josh means too much to our defense, it's like he is our defense. When he playing bad, our defense sucks, when he isn't or he's in the game mentally, our defense is very good.

[AHF]

Curry is so overrated on this site it's hysterical.

Ellis is better than Curry. Smoove is better than Curry. I don't think Smoove is better than Ellis but I wouldn't trade for Ellis when we don't need Ellis and we need Smoove. I really think you guys think Curry is great, lol. Come on, this guy just have it. Not a PnR guy. He fits our system but not for Smoove, hell no. I like him but you guys are going way overboard. Ellis is better than him. It's not even comparable either. Smoove is too. He doesn't make us better if we get rid of one of our Big 3, just makes us a lot worst. Did you see how Nash did him yesterday, Nash treated Curry like he was Bibby. Come on, you guys can't be serious. Wow, Curry=Smoove. Tell that to a scout, they will laugh in your face, even one who doesn't like Josh Smith. I think we could be a contender if we get Curry and AB for Crawford and Teague. But we get a lot worst if we trade Smith for a downgrade, no matter what the downgrade is.

I didn't compare Smoove and Curry.

Curry scores 19 ppg on .592 ts%. Ellis scors 25 ppg on .541 ts%. Curry averages more rebounds, more assists and fewer turnovers. They average the same blocks and nearly the same steals per game (1.8 to 2.2). Ellis dominates the ball more with a top 10 usage rate. Curry gets paid less than $3M this season. Ellis gets paid $11M this season.

How is Ellis more desirable again? Is it the fact that he has shot the ball more than 400 times more than Curry this season but not nearly as well? Is it the fact that he is 3 years older than Curry?

[MaceCase]

That is exactly the same thing people said about Flip and Crawford. In reality this would be one of the best places for Ellis to play because JJ is a good playmaker at the 2.

Exactly and JJ would also not have to worry about guarding PGs anymore. With a scoring talent like Ellis in tow you can now make Jamal available and there just so happens to be a team in the market for a scoring guard and have a center that they will only trade for another expiring (Sacramento)

So if the series of trades were like Josh for Monta then Jamal+Mo for Dalembert are we better? Don't know, it's just interesting because it keeps us out the lux tax this season and maintains our cap flexibility next season while bringing in fresh blood. To be a Hawk fan these days you have to be more of an accountant than a talent evaluator.

[Joker]

I didn't compare Smoove and Curry.

Curry scores 19 ppg on .592 ts%. Ellis scors 25 ppg on .541 ts%. Curry averages more rebounds, more assists and fewer turnovers. They average the same blocks and nearly the same steals per game (1.8 to 2.2). Ellis dominates the ball more with a top 10 usage rate. Curry gets paid less than $3M this season. Ellis gets paid $11M this season.

How is Ellis more desirable again? Is it the fact that he has shot the ball more than 400 times more than Curry this season but not nearly as well? Is it the fact that he is 3 years older than Curry?

That's great in all but Ellis is a much better scorer, draws a lot of double teams, isn't just a product of the system like Curry is. Ellis can score in Indiana, New York, Atlanta, Miami, LA, anywhere. Curry is only reasonable in places where defense is looked at as a minimum. Use stats, stats stats stats. David Lee stats in NY. Is Kevin Love better than KG, Horford, Amare, and Dwight? His stats are much better. Wait but it's the stats, TS%. Dude cut it, he's not that good. An above average PG who is very talented and can be a very good player but not one you trade a top 25 defensive anchor who can score like Josh Smith for. I don't even care that Josh is a knucklehead, I am not trading him for Curry. If this was Deron, Dwight, or CP3, no question bye Smoove. But not for an obvious downgrade. You can talk about age and everything and I am taking Ellis all day. They might peak in the same place which is borderline All Stars but right now, Ellis is better.

Don't get it twisted, I really like Curry but just not for Smoove, ever.